Talk:Bataan Death March

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[edit] Headline text

Peatmanb 13:24, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

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Japan To-do:

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AMERIKANS MURDERED MANY MANY MORE JAPANESE PEOPLE. They told Japan they could not have a navy the size of theirs or England's, they had racist attitudes and policies towards Japanese, and the Americans also shot at Japanese planes flying over China long before Pearl Harbor was even attacked, which Americans knew about it before it happened anyways, that's why allt heir aircraft carriers were out that day. and I know someone's going to go to the atomic bombs eventually...so I'll say it now before I have to later on....racist reasons of course, AMericans wanted to test out their new weapon, on peopple they did not consider humans, and Germans are white, and they respected the Germans, that is why those two famous American war crimes were carried out on two Japanese cities instead of Munich and Berlin.

How very off-topic. This is about a japanese war crime, not tinfoil-hat deserving theories about how much "AMERIKANS" hate the japanese. Why don't you find some way to be productive?ABigBlackMan 16:52, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
In case you didn't know, Germany had surrendered long before the Manhattan Project had produced the atomic bomb. I'm only saying the reason it was not used on Germany, not agreeing with the decision to drop the bomb(which I don't)Erik the Red 2 01:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)Erik the Red 2

This article is ridiculously sympathetic to the Japanese. It is obvious because, as is typical in the Western imperialist psyche, of which Japan is a part of, the article has a very difficult time accepting Japan's own crimes and tries to push the blame on the Koreans, who were one of the biggest victims of the Asian holocaust. My grandmother was forced to watch the Nips torture her father to death at their house and to this day our family suffers from the consequences of this evil. The author of the article seems to be bothered by the lack of banzai spirit Koreans showed on the battlefield, which he says relegated them to service duties. This demoted Koreans from the butchering and raping typical on a Japanese battlefield to the less-violent act of guard duties, which the author of this article appears to frown down on. Koreans never wanted to fight against other Asians on behalf of an evil people who were colonizing and destroying them, and could not even be persuaded to fight against other occupied people at gunpoint. It was for this reason that the Japanese method of coercing Koreans to carry out suicide attacks by beating other Korean conscripts came into being, a practice that continued until recently in the Korean military whose leadership was staffed with Korean Japanese collaborators at the order of the American imperialists. People wonder why Asia still hates Japan and wants to wipe it off the map, and it is only because they still cannot accept their guilt. Blaming others for their own transgressions only fans greater rage and desire for blood. But it is clear after 60 years that the Western respect of violence over morality and truth is ingrained in the mindset of the Japanese, which like the West have a particularly bloody and violent history. I am disappointed by your lack of humanity and inability to see the humanity and value of people who are not of your own kind.

[edit] Minnesota march

I noticed that the Minnesota event was not listed. The 1/194 AR was part of this march, and commerate it with a march with 25 pound rucksacks and military attire. --Theultimo

I noticed that the featured article on the History of the Philippines says: Most of the 80,000 prisoners of war captured by the Japanese at Bataan were forced to undertake the infamous Bataan Death March to a prison camp 105 kilometers to the north. It is estimated that about 10,000 Filipinos and 1,200 Americans died before reaching their destination.[22]\\ But here in this article we have: 10,000 of the 75,000 POWs died.

Is the difference in the fact that they died later on the Hell Ships or POW camps? I should check into this and maybe clarify it in the article. It seems like it would be good to tell the number who died on the march and then later in this article, or at least how many died on the actual march.

I also just noticed the difference in the distance. Here its 160 kilometers and in the featured article its 105. That seems straight forward to discover but I don't know.
--Peatmanb 13:24, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I think to ask for a POV check on this artile is ridiculous considering the circumstances. How can you explain what happened without displaying the one sided massacre that took place. This event is one of the worst acts of murder that man has ever seen.Romeoslion 07:59, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

An event in this article is a April 9 selected anniversary (may be in HTML comment).

I did some minor copy-editing and clean-up. This article definitey needs some PoV revision. Just my two cents.
Boetron 16:06, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

I reverted the edit of Wareware on April 26 because of copyvio. Material taken from [1]. --seav 15:12, Apr 26, 2004 (UTC)


I can't imagine why this seems to have never been linked to Japan or Empire of Japan until now.

But in any case, the choice of wording is PoV in

The Bataan Death March is only one of many major war crimes committed by the Imperialist Japanese from the annexation of Manchuria in 1931 to the end of World War II in 1945. It is a major event in Asian Holocaust, where over 15 million Chinese, Korean, Filipino, Indonesian, Burmese, Indochinese civilians, Pacific Islanders and Allied POW were killed.

IMO even "committed" is PoV in place of "convicted" and "alleged" as applicable; also "Imperialist", "major", "Holocaust".

I've removed the entire sentence. It's not relevant and adds no value, the facts stand for themselves as is. Jpatokal 17:49, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Whole article should be carefully examined in light of all of this.
--Jerzy(t) 22:08, 2005 Jan 27 (UTC)

  • Hey if you don't have a problem with using such "terms" in the Nazi, Hitler, Auschwitz, Dachau etc. pages then don't bring your complaints here. NO DOUBLE STANDARDS. [Posted 19:45, 2005 Jan 29 by User:SecretAgentMan00 (tk cntrb) w/o sig, as noted by Jerzy]
    • I'm here; doesn't sound like you know where else i've been. No vague charges of double standards, and no shouting. --Jerzy(t) 06:24, 2005 Jan 31 (UTC)
  • Jerzy, I don't think there's much doubt that BDM was a war crime, compared to some of those that are called war crimes in Wikipedia.[2] However the rest of the paragraph was over the top. Grant65 (Talk) 20:39, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)
    • While i have some other concerns much more nuanced than that, i agree with you that the rest of the two sentences i quoted should be the current focus for improvement, rather than the BDM. (I did not question the first sentence of the 'graph, which was not part of what i quoted.)
    --Jerzy(t) 06:24, 2005 Jan 31 (UTC)
  • OK, I have re-written the first two paragraphs, and have included the term "war crime" again. Also removed the overemphasis on the US, including the mention of MacArthur, who really had nothing to do with the BDM. Grant65 (Talk) 11:16, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

It says

The yo mama their own guns on Corregidor

Who fired the guns: this is not obvious.
--Jerzy(t) 22:08, 2005 Jan 27 (UTC)

[edit] Commons images

commons:Fall of the Philippines has some relevant images that should probably be integrated. The picture of the marchers carrying a person/body in an improvised litter has a far different description at the commons. Also, the image is higher contrast and resolution there. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 12:47, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] From the Horses' Mouth

My father-in-law, Dr. Mamerto Jimenez M.D., was a POW and was part of the BDM. His stories pale in comparison to what I have read on here thus far. When he was allowed to eat, it would be the most vulgar things, parts of animals, bugs, etc... He said the only thing he could not eat was a monkey's paw, because of the close resemblance to a humans. I guess he was lucky to have survived it at all. He passed away 2 weeks ago and I was just wondering how many survivors were left from that terrible ordeal? Bayonets were thrust through the tendons in his legs, and then he was forced to march through the pain. Fearlessat30 21:02, 30 January 2007 (UTC)fearlessat30

If he gave any published interviews or notes about his experiences (local newspapers, etc.), they could be cited as references for the addition of details that are currently missing from the page. Brholden 22:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Im sure he has several notes left behind. I shall go through them soon. im sure they'll make a great edition to this discussion as well as other references. The only reason why he survived in the first place was because he was a doctor and they need him.

The key is finding material that can be referenced. On-line is best, but books, old newspaper articles, etc. are all great too. For example, was he interviewed about his experiences at some point over the years? Brholden 00:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
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