User talk:Bastique/archive3

Contents 1 English Irish 1.1 Cinn Mhara/Kinvara 1.2 CINN MHARA 1.3 Thanks 1.4 Cinn Mhara 1.5 Newbridge, County Kildare 1.6 Irish names 2 Cong photos 3 gaeltachtaI 4 CASLA 5 County Galway 6 Casla 7 Screeb / An Scríob 8 Irish language 9 Ballina 10 Thanks for featured photograph 11 Palm Aire 12 John Gilligan 13 ga:Múnla:ie baile infobox problems 14 Lettermore 15 USSCOTW 16 How did you do that? 17 Dunganstown 18 213.whatever 19 Derry 20 Arabic in Irish Wikipedia 21 Terenure again 22 Killarney 23 Wikimedia UK/Wikimania 2006 24 Nashua, New Hampshire 25 new collaboration project 26 Presidential Names

[edit] English Irish

[edit] Cinn Mhara/Kinvara

Hello Bastique (where DOES that name come from? What does it mean? Anything to do with bras?). Listen, I love getting messages on my talk page, but I think you've got the wrong person re the Kinvara article, as I do not believe that I ever went near it. Nor am I responsible for any of the changes you mention. However, I would be delighted to have a go at it sometime, health dependent. Cheers! Fergananim

No problem. Actually, there is another place of the same name near Cashel in Connamara, which is spelled Kinvarra. Awaiting the origin of 'Bastique' with baited breath! Fergananim

[edit] CINN MHARA

Did you ever hear of Dún Laoghaire, Co. Dublin; Port Laoise, Co. Laois; Ráth Luirc, Co. Cork; Cóbh, Co. Cork, An Cheathrú Rua, Co. Galway; An Daingean (Daingean Uí Chúis) Co. Kerry; An Uaimh, Co. Meath; Ceanannas Mór, Co. Meath; Droichead Nuadh, Co. Kildare; or Meathas Troim, Co. Longford.

Beir Buadh, Mac Duach

Bastique - going to explain this for you - All of these are the Irish names for towns - barring Dun Laoghaire - that are occasionally used for towns. Portlaoise is fine, no space though; Charleville, actually, Cobh is right too; Carrowrow (I think); Dingle; Navan; Kells; Newbridge; Edgesworthstown. They're the real names, they're the names that every non-gaelgoir users. Moving to them = capitulation of the highest order to a tiny minority. --Kiand 21:56, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to redirect; there is no need for that article, and if its recreated, I'll VfD.

I'm from a gaeltacht. He's, eh, not. Funny, eh? --Kiand 22:05, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Right, I redirected it and left a note on the talk page.

Rabid gaelgoirism pisses me off extremely - the language has its place. An English-language encyclopaedia, or as the sole language on road signs in gaeltachts is NOT it.

Cobh and Dun Laoghaire use those names as forced overreactions to Queenstown and Kingstown. It would probably be Cove and Dunleary otherwise, but we don't use as them as their neither legal nor accepted names... For the rest of them, the Irish form is neither legal nor used.--Kiand 22:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Irish grammar = I haven't god a sodding clue, sorry. He seems to be using extremely old Irish, though.

I thought we used accepted names by the residents of the area as the naming protocol here? Its been brought up for Derry City and Danzig/Gdansk among others. Droichead Nua is not the accepted name - its just down the road from me, I know the town quite well. Its Newbridge, simple as that... should be moved to Newbridge, County Kildare just for MoS reasons. --Kiand 22:48, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, Kiand, rabid Béarlóirí such as your fine self- God bless you- would piss me off immensely...if I were limited enough to seek scapegoats for my own insecurities in life. Oh, and one other thing, all the Irish placenames above are not only in common use (usually among our more intelligent citizenry which most probably explains a great deal here) but they are also very very legal indeed. Would you care to give your amazing source which says otherwise? I suggest you do some research rather than treating us with anti-Irish prejudice masquerading as fact. Better still, you could bring your agenda to a political board like Robin Bury's Reform Movement one.

[edit] Thanks

Thank you for correcting the slip in my archiving; I'd never have noticed. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:50, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cinn Mhara

It was fairly recently announced by the minister Éamonn Ó Caoimh that all placenames in Irish speaking areas are to be only recognised officially in their Irish form and only the Irish form will be used on sign posts. Port Laoise is the correct spelling. An Cheathrú Rua and An Daingean are the only forms now to be used on sign posts. If Kiand is from an Irish speaking area surely you would know the English form of An Cheathrú Rua and you would know that I am using modern Irish. The parish of Cinn Mhara still has a number of native Irish speakers even though it is not recognised as an official Irish speaking area. Mac Duach - talk

[edit] Newbridge, County Kildare

Kildare County Council calls it Newbridge throughout its sites, so I moved it and fixed the article up. Nobody calls it Droichead Nua anyway. Damn gaelgoirí --Kiand 22:21, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What an intelligent factually-based comment worthy of a great encyclopedia "nobody calls it Droichead Nua anyway". Yes, "nobody" and "everybody" "always" and "everywhere" disagrees/ supports whatever is your latest argument. Wikipedia is in trouble if you are allowed to edit articles relating to the Irish language.

[edit] Irish names

I added the samll bit of information on Cinn Mhara's history and gave the Irish as well as the English forms to some of the placenames that I added that I thought were relevant to the parish. I agree that giving the names of the counties and provinces in Irish here was pointless. Someone deleted the Irish forms so I repalced them, they were deleted again so I repalaced them again and deleted the English forms of a few of the names just to anoy who ever was removing the Irish forms. In non Irish speaking areas both the Irish and English names are official so at the heading of the article both the English and Irish names should be bold and be the same size, although I agree that Irish should follow the English in these cases. However for Irish speaking areas the Irish form should be first and then followed by the English form. Articles beginning with the English forms for Irish places in Irish speaking areas should be redirected to the Irish placename. Mac Duach - talk

[edit] Cong photos

Added 4 photos (sorry, quality isn't so good.. scanned pics) of Cong, County Mayo in Commons, as I told you. Two of the abbey and two of Ashford castle. You can grab them here

Also a mix of three photos in one of Lough Corrib, here it is.Kanchelskis ♣ talk

[edit] gaeltachtaI

You appear to misunderstand wikipedia rules regarding language. It doesn't matter what language is used. The key question is: is that non-english word used by English speakers? If it is, then it is OK to use it on wikipedia. So Tsar is OK, as is Taoiseach, Kaiser etc. gaeltachaí, as the plural of gaeltacht is used by English speakers so it is quite OK to use it on wikipedia. In contrast Konig is not OK to describe the Austrian emperor's role as King of Hungary, not because it is a non-english word, but because it is a non-english word that is not used by english-speakers.

BTW I inadvertently reverted the talk page instead of the main page. (The lesson is: never review edits after having a couple of pints in the pub! Mea culpa! Apologies. I'll revert the reversion.) FearÉIREANN\^(talk) 05:01, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] CASLA

Firstly I mentioned the following (Dún Laoghaire, Port Laoise, Ráth Luirc, Cóbh, An Uaimh, Ceanannas Mór, Droichead Nuadh, Meathas Troim,) because they like Muine Bheag are the names of towns in which there was an effort on the part of Goverment or local councils to use the Irish names. You would know that if you had any intrest in the Irish place names. Dún Laoghaire, Port Laoise and Cóbh are still used and accepted by the local communities. In the case of An Uaimh, Ceanannas Mór, Droichead Nuadh and Meathas Troim, only An Uaimh appears to gained a degree of popularity and is used by some English speakers when speaking English. Ráith Luirc is used to a greater degree by English speakers when speaking English.

Secondly in the Irish speaking area of Co. Galway the majority of the Irish forms of the names are accepted by the local community (Irish speakers and those who only speak English). The Irish forms of the names are often used by English speakers when using English. When using English the local media (radio and newpapers) also widely use the Irish form of the names for this part of Co. Galway. I do not know what the full situation is in other Irish speaking areas. I do not know anything about Muine Bheag but the few times I have of it on RTÉ's (national TV and radio) English news I have heard it called its English name even though the community may use Muine Bheag, which is why it should be used as the heading of an article. Casla, An Cheathrú Rua and Ros Muc etc are acepted by us here in Co. Galway as the proper names. By the way Coill Ua bhFhiachrach should be used in the article on Cinn Mhara as it is a historical name and the form Killoveragh has another meaning.

Kiand - The Irish forms of placenames are legal throughout the Republic and are used when speaking English and Irish. Mac Duach, Beir Buadh

[edit] County Galway

I agree with using County instead of Co. Here in Éire Co. is almost always used before the placename (except in the case of headings etc) and I sometimes use Co. without thinking. In Éire even when people are refering to counties Co. is widely dropped leaving only the placename. The unique thing about the English spoken in Ireland is that it is heavily influenced by the Gaedhilge. Beir Buadh, Mac Duach

[edit] Casla

(Unfortunately) I think he may have a small point here, it is usually called Casla by the locals. However, I woulf support a WP:RM on it back to Costelloe. I see he has a habit of removing the maps when the names don't agree also (not knowing how to change stuff).

If it goes on, I will open a WP:RfC on this, as this is, more than anything else, the ENGLISH LANGUAGE Wikipedia. --Kiand 29 June 2005 23:13 (UTC)

Its currently taking me a map book, Google and fecking guesswork to fix his buggery of Connemara, which included translating the names of the mountains. Just as well I'm an arrogant Ulsterman... --Kiand 29 June 2005 23:34 (UTC)

I have the OS 1:50000 sheets for most of County Galway if needed, but they won't help much. The OS generally uses both forms for continuity. BTW, did everyone know that the Irish Government has decreed that town and village names in the Gaeltacht shall henceforth be monoglot. --Red King 30 June 2005 16:56 (UTC)

Only because O'Keefe (who can't even spell his own damn surname right in Irish, btw) managed to confuse the Dail into accepting it because the speech was in Irish. It also only affects published use of the names, and only in Government docs - the names are still in English, and this is still the English Wikipedia. I can also see that being hurridly reverted when tourists have no idea where Dingle has gone, and dunno where the Mary from Dungloe is when the road signs say "An Clochan Liath".

But no matter what, this is the -English- Wikipedia. Not the Irish one. --Kiand 30 June 2005 17:37 (UTC)

I've just had a look at his contributions. Now I realise what I've stepped on and I'll leave you to it. He is heading for a suspension, methinks (3RR) --Red King 30 June 2005 19:33 (UTC)

"btw" a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. As a matter of fact, Éamon Ó Cuív can spell his own name perfectly correctly: it is you who displays a Kevin Myers degree of ignorance on this. Ó Cuív's father was no less than Professor Brian Ó Cuív, one of the leading Irish language scholars of the twentieth century. His paternal grandfather was Shan Ó Cuív, a journalist and government press officer, who preferred a simplified spelling of Ó Caoimh so changed it to the more phonetic Ó Cuív. With this history, Éamon Ó Cuív is very much the minister's correct name.

[edit] Screeb / An Scríob

Somebody wanted to know this. It is a small village near Costeloe. It's only claim to fame is that it was one of the peat (turf) fired power stations - Google for Screeb AND turf. --Red King 30 June 2005 19:33 (UTC)

[edit] Irish language

My pleasure.

Lapsed Pacifist 30 June 2005 18:34 (UTC)

[edit] Ballina

The official Irish for Ballina is usually Béal an Átha. I have never seen the one you use. If it was anyone but you I would simply revert but I await with great interest the source of the translation.--File Éireann 1 July 2005 20:35 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for featured photograph

I'm really pleased my photo has been chosen for featured photograph on Ireland Wikiportal. How are the photographs chosen?--File Éireann 1 July 2005 20:35 (UTC)

[edit] Palm Aire

I put a comment in the Talk:Palm Aire, Florida. Thinking about it I could of just put it here but, I am too lazy right now to cut and paste.--Mad Max July 4, 2005 16:48 (UTC)

[edit] John Gilligan

Thanks for your Comment. I seen it in the pictures when it came out, but I can't remember it all at all. I have only recollections of Gilligan being a rather nasty bloke! I'll rent it again.. Cheers! --Irishpunktom\^talk July 5, 2005 13:45 (UTC)

[edit] ga:Múnla:ie baile infobox problems

Bastique/Basteagh/Bastogne(?), a chara:

These all-singing all-dancing infoboxes (or, as I call them: impenetrabilia) are all very well, and you are clearly a devotee, but I cannot help feeling that they are profoundly anti-wiki in spirit for as long as their inner mysteries remain hidden from the peasantry (c'est-à-dire moi, par exemple).

Take this query's eponymous infobox zum Beispiel. How is it that if one so much as changes a single letter of the county entry the whole thing is blown to buggery?

Attempted investigations only seem to lead to blizzards of nested {(((({{{{wtf}}}})))}-type templates. Great fun for the cognoscenti, no doubt, but just a slap-in-the-face for those who are trying to build up content...

Either we plebs will have to set about dismantling all these hi-tech infoboxes so that we can contribute on an equal footing once again, or wikipedians like yourself will have to start explaining themselves a little better. -- Picapica 7 July 2005 14:04 (UTC) (Wikiluddite forcé)

[edit] Lettermore

The only Lettermore I am familiar with is well known to fans of the Gaeltacht of County Galway such as I. It is that on the island of Lettermore, which us Irish language fans call Leitir Mór, in Connemara. I do have a detailed map of Connemara by Tim Robinson but it is not with me in London. I'll have a look next time I'm home.--File Éireann 8 July 2005 18:46 (UTC)

[edit] USSCOTW

I just wanted to let you know, History of South Carolina(which you voted for is the current USSCOTW. Please come and help make it a featured-standard article. Falphin 22:55, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] How did you do that?

How do you make your signature all snazzy? Pacific Coast Highway 23:40, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dunganstown

Hi Bastique,

I want to create a new article on Dunganstown, County Wexford, Ireland. Unfortunately, I cannot find any information on the town (population, cordinates, etc.) for the infobox. I can't even find the Irish name. Would please be able to help me on how you find out these things? Thanks. --Hottentot

Ummm..how's it coming alog? --Hottentot

If I may impose on the hospitality of your user talk page, B., here, Hottentot, is "your starter for ten":

Dunganstown: Baile Uí Dhonnagáin = Homestead of Donnagán

Pop. (1996) 1422 (this is combining Dunganstown East, South, and West)

Latitude: 52° 20' 34" N (52.343)

Longitude: 6° 58' 28" W (-6.974)

--Picapica 18:34, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 213.whatever

I'm really really close to an RfC here.... Its obviously Mac. --Kiand 21:23, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Derry

Their is a proposal to move Derry to Londonderry/Derry!, see Talk:Derry for voting. Djegan 20:59, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Arabic in Irish Wikipedia

Hi Bastique. Sorry for replying so late. I had a wikivacation ;). The Arabic stuff in Irish Wikipidia is fixed now. Someone had just copied that from the French one and placed it into the Irish one w/o taking care or adapting it to Irish. Cheers - Svest 23:29, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Terenure again

Hi there! You may remember our discussion on Terenure and its population. Just to let you know that I have re-opened the issue on the Terenure discussion page, I would welcome your comments. --Ryano 12:28, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Killarney

Killarney needs one of your infoboxes! OS GR: V 964 908 --Red King 14:18, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikimedia UK/Wikimania 2006

Hi, this is a circular to Wikipedians in Ireland to draw your attention to Wikimedia UK, where the establishment of a local Wikimedia chapter for the United Kingdom (and possibly for the Republic of Ireland) is being discussed. See the talk page, as well as the mailing list; a meetup will take place to discuss matters in London in September, for anyone who can get there. On another topic, plans are being drawn up for a UK bid for Wikimania 2006, which would be conveniently close to Ireland. On the other hand, Dublin's bid was one of the final three last year - might we bid again? --Kwekubo 03:40, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

A user is trying to have the Template:Irish Republic infobox deleted. Your comments would be welcome. FearÉIREANN\^{(caint) 21:44, 5 November 2005 (UTC)}

[edit] Nashua, New Hampshire

Thanks for the new map, I think that article is on the verge of being featured, and your map pushed it a bit closer to making it. Just curious, what was your method of making it? GIS or just some graphic arts program? karmafist 06:31, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I read your response on karmafist's talk page. I was wondering how easy it is to convert the Census data into SVG then to PNG? I am familiar with Photoshop CS2, but am not familiar with SVG formating. If this is something that could be picked up quick, I would be willing to help you out with making the NH maps. Assawyer 20:57, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] new collaboration project

You'd you be interested in a participating in a new Collaboration project that aims at translating good and featured articles in the French Wikipedia to English (much likeSpanish Translation of the Week)? I'm trying to see if there's enough users interested in this project before creating it. Thank you. CG 17:35, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Presidential Names

I'm hoping some debate crops up around this...or barring that, people begin to understand why diminuitive names for presidents are inappropriate as article titles in spite of the names' usage(s). I'm sure there's some Style guidelines that need to be modified as well. Bastique 14:30, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi. Correct order of things ->

1. modify style guidelines (with a consensus to do so)
2. move articles in accordance with new style guidelines

Wrong order of things ->

1. move articles in violation of long-established and well-discussed style guidelines
2. talk about maybe updating the style guidelines

Morwen - Talk 14:32, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I came here to say exactly what Morwen said. So: Yup. android79 15:37, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I'll remember not to try to use humour on you in future. Apologies. Morwen - Talk 19:14, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't see any snide sarcasm or whatever here. Could Morwen have been more diplomatic? Sure. Could I have chosen to not just do a "me too" note? Sure, but I saw no reason not to do so. I should note that I wanted to echo the content of Morwen's message, and not necessarily the style in which it was delivered. If you want to get all bent out of shape over the style of the message rather than the content, well, that's your prerogative, but what got us here is a controversial page move unsupported by any consensual discussion on the relevant talk page and directly contradicted by longstanding style guidelines. Why don't we talk about that instead? android79 19:19, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

And let's not forget that it was a move that broke dozens of redirects and probably something in the order of hundreds of wikilinks. My unconditional apologies again for the tone, though. But drive-by moves of pages with lots of incoming redirects are, at the least, unfortunate. Morwen - Talk 19:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Don't do drive-by moves, then - sort out your mess! But surely you can see the differences in the cases between Clinton and Libby. You should make your case, not try to move things around and see where the dust settles.

We also have Tony Blair at there, for example. With Mr Ford, modern broadsheet usage isn't to use that. I consider the Democratic thing to be a bizarre red herring, and I've no idea where you've got that from.

If I do a google search of news.bbc.co.uk, we get for example

President "Gerald Ford" : 222

President "Gerry Ford" : 0

President "Jerry Ford" : 0

President "Bill Clinton" : 46,600

President "William Clinton" : 11

President "William J. Clinton" : 15

We follow pre-existing usage, and we aren't trying to be hyperformal. BBC News almost universally prefer Bill Clinton. I'd be interested to see what the results are with other news services.

Wrt Libby: i get

"Lewis Libby" : 86

"Scooter Libby" : 62

and of course here "Scooter Libby" would include 'Lewis "Scooter" Libby' - the first hit is indeed that, so where is your evidence that Scooter Libby is more commonly used? Morwen - Talk 19:35, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Please make it clear what you are alledging, if anything.

I note that the Labour Party's website nearly universally uses the form "Tony Blair" (432 to 2), and Number 10's website has about the same ratio. I think that, if there is a pattern here, which I dispute, its caused by the people themselves promoting more common names, which you'd expect to find in parties that try to appeal to working class voters. However, this is getting into the bounds of original research. Morwen - Talk 19:49, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

If you consider mild remarks on your opinions a personal attack, I think it's safer if I don't say anything further. Sorry for bothering you. Morwen - Talk 19:52, 20 December 2005 (UTC)