User talk:Basawala/Archive 2

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Contents 1 Vandalism 2 MedCab case 3 Bajrang Dal 4 Why so agitated? 5 Re: Blocking of User talk:86.143.175.215 6 HU 7 Bias? 8 Hindi and Urdu scripts 9 Got 'im already :) 10 Proposed deletions 11 link to Persian 12 Wikibooks 13 User:Cool Cat/In many languages... 14 Phoenician alphabet 15 Seeking help about IPA 16 Seeking help and contribution 17 Ur advice 18 Sarvagnya and his bad-mouthing! 18.1 Sarvagnya's new post 19 Pl. try to understand the difference in self-study and study of one's own self. 20 My apologies.. 21 Thanks 22 Xiaoerjing 23 Comments from Sarvagnya

Vandalism

Thanks for reverting the vandalism on my user page. It's much appreciated. SteveO 09:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Oops. Thanks for letting me know. SteveO 11:09, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

MedCab case

Hi, I'm the mediator for Hindu section of List of terrorist organisations MedCab case. Your reworded version appears not to comply with the introduction criteria. Would you comment on this? Addhoc 20:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi, will you mind if I remove the SS, VHP and Bajrang Dal from the list of terrorist groups. I think on such a controversial page, it should be necessary to find proper sourcing referring to the respective organizations as terrorist groups. Regards. Nobleeagle (Talk) 07:57, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Bajrang Dal

Hi I have commented out the last two suspected things [1] pending the finding of citable sources not the communist fundded sabrang or a Muslim web site.Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm just asking you to cite from reputable sources (Hindu, Hindustan Times, Pioneer, TI Express, Times of India, etc.)Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:27, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

About us - sabrang - It has an agenda other than news giving, which none of the papers listed above have. Indian muslims goes without say, that source is no authority on BD either.Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Its just that every page from 2002 Gujarat violence/2006 revision to RSS, to any sort of "communal" page has this issue.Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Al-jazeera source was a letter, calling Hindus terrorists, and saying Muslims were "always blamed for things". It wasnt an article or editorial. I myself could write a letter to a reputable news source, and say whatever I want. All the "facts" are cited in the Hindu.Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I addressed your concerns on said articles talk page.Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Why so agitated?

Regarding your last address to me on Talk:Bajrang Dal you seem very agitated and seem to show certain tendencies to belive that the editors involved are trying to work against you and have a bias. Nothing could be further from the truth. Don't get so annoyed. Bear in mind that the foundation of your edits have been retained on account of satisfying verifiability. Some of your details are from unreliable sources, that is all. I'm sure that, if you regard those tall tales as truth, then you can find Multiple Sources to that effect, can't you? Surely a non-partisan org has published something. The fact that you can;t find one should invite you to some introspection.Hkelkar 02:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Blocking of User talk:86.143.175.215

Hi, making controversial edits is great, but it seemed to me like he was just trolling at some places (eg. [2], claiming all the major US news media is "far-right" isn't helpful to anyone). And like you said he did break the 3rr on at least three different articles in an hour. If your problem is the template I used on his talk page, I'll try to find a more specific one in the future, thanks. - Bobet 08:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

HU

Christianpost is also partisan source ("Christian")Hkelkar 21:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Which is why it must be qualified accordingly as a Christian organization.Hkelkar 23:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Bias?

YOu keep reverting sourced edits articles like Kancha Ilaiah that point to his rhetoric as being anti-Hindu (even by muslims) and Dalitstan as not being an anti-Hindu org when it so clearly is. Your OR doesn;t count as I point to the article on wikipedia about jewwatch.com, another similar hate-site. It is listed on wikipedia as a hate site even though the site itself repeatedly insists that it is not an antisemitic hate site.Hkelkar 20:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

You are exaggerating my edits. It is really irrelevant to say that the critics of Kancha Ilaiah are both Hindu and Muslim, after all, Kancha Ilaiah is a Dalit and not related to Islam, so what are you suggesting by vying for 4 words "both Hindu and Muslim". You bring jewwatch into question here, but I have no clue what that is and how its supposed to affect me, so that's a really original accusation. And how is Dalistan cleary anti-Hindu? It's critical of Hindu society, but that's as far as it really goes. And I even kept Dalitstan's article that way, since I knew others would revert it back, and I only posted on the talk page. It seems that you are really trying to attack and undermine me with very limited basis. Mar de Sin ^{Talk to me!} 20:29, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Hindi and Urdu scripts

Thanks for your input on the scripts. Even though I am able to speak Urdu and Hindi, I am learning the scripts and have been using software for some of the edits. I will take your advice on this though. Your removal of Devanagari scripts from Pakistani films was justified for the reasons you gave. However, for Indo-Muslim articles such as Sawm and Chand Raat, I feel it is appropriate to use Devanagari scripts as well. Though many Indian Muslims speak Urdu, they may be unable to write it (especially the younger generation). Instead, they use the more widely accepted Devanagari script. This is because the Urdu script is not taught in most public schools in India and many Indian Muslim youth do not learn it unless they receive private tutoring or go to a madrasah. I personally know cases like this. In light of these facts, I think it would be appropriate to retain Devanagari on these articles. Thanks for your understanding. Khuda hafiz. Anupam 19:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Got 'im already :)

Thanks for letting me know however - Glen 19:56, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Proposed deletions

Hello. If you are proposing articles for deletion using the WP:PROD method, can you please mention that in the edit summary when you add the tag. Thanks. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:26, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't always remember myself ! The comment is not exactly prominent in the WP:PROD article, so I can see how it would be easily missed. All the best ! Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

link to Persian

Hello, when you want to link to the article about something Persian, please do not link to Persian, as that is a disambiguation page (which nothing should be linked to). Instead link to the one of the options found on that page such as Persian people, Persian language, or Iran, by writing out [[Persian language|Persian]] or [[Iran|Persian]]. Regards, Jeff3000 03:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikibooks

Hello! Can you contribute to the Urdu Wikibook (in Wikibooks) Please?

Thanks and Successfully!!!

User:Cool Cat/In many languages...

Thank you for the Urdu and Hindi translation --Cat out 14:56, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Phoenician alphabet

Salaam Basawala! If you get any time, please take a look at Phoenician alphabet and add/correct the Devanagari under the Alphabet section. The Arabic script is already there. Thanks! Khuda hafiz. Anupam^Talk 00:18, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt reply! According to the article, "Many historians believe that the Brahmi script and the subsequent Indic alphabets are derived from this script as well, which would make it the ancestor of almost all major writing systems in use today..." Maybe we could try Devanagari as the script is used in quite a few Indo-European languages? Let me know what you think! Thanks! Anupam^Talk 02:36, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. It really helped. I see your point that all the writing systems in the chart were abjad. I didn't notice that the statement about Indic scripts was unsourced. Originally, I thought giving an example of an Indic script would be a good idea. However you made several well thought out assertions. I'll leave it up to you to add/fix the Devanagari or remove it. Thanks for all your help! Also, thanks for your support in the Talk:Abrar-ul-Haq discussion. I really appreciate it! Khuda hafiz. Anupam^Talk 02:44, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Seeking help about IPA

Seeking help and contribution

Dear Wikipedians,

We apreciate your valuable contribution in article named Wikipedia:Indic transliteration scheme on english WIkipedia.

We at Marathi Language wikipedia do not have enough expertise to update IPA related info in our article, specialy we have been unable to import/update IPA templates and do not know how to use IPA symbols.Please click here-this link- to provide help to update "IPA transliteration for Indic Languages" article for Marathi wikipedia

We seek and request for help in updating above mentioned article and would like to know relevant resources and refferences in respect of Devanagari and IPA .

Thanks and Regards

Mahitgar 16:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Ur advice

I request u to give similar advice to sarvagnya. Thanks.mahawiki 14:38, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I cant remember (m)any other instance of me using 'damn' and that too I have used it only against mw. that is not because he holds an opinion different from mine, but because he is downright incivil and whats worse, neither has he mended his ways in spite of several request by several others in the past nor has any of the admins taken any action against him or so much as even adviced him to refrain from using that word and hurting people. I didnt use the word 'damn' the first time he used that word. My first request to him was polite, later it was stern(not incivil) and I even pleaded my case on Admin:Sundar and admin:Blguyen's pages. On Aksi Great's talk page too.

While he was pulled up for his zillion other offences(which included other instances of incivility), he was never pulled up for this. that is what has fuelled my angst. If you admins want everyone to remain sane, you need to put down incivility like mahawiki's with an iron fist. WP is not a course in Anger Management(like the movie) where you give incivil people like mahawiki a long long leash and test at what point the victims might turn incivil themselves. Sarvagnya 20:43, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

• I need to give you some background. It all started with a content dispute on Belgaum. Mahawiki called for AMA. But before AMA could arrive, Aksi Great arrived and brokered a truce which lasted all of 48 hours and it was back to square one. He called out for AMA again. The AMA(User:Amerique) arrived and long drawn arguments ensued in his presence. And even with his own advocate mediating, Mahawiki slipped back into his old uncivil ways. So much so, that I abruptly withdrew from the debate and so did User:Amerique. User:Amerique stayed off for a couple of days and then while giving his opinion on the debate, he told Mahawiki that he felt that he(mahawiki) should apologise to people he had hurt(me, dinesh etc.. - if u insist i will take the trouble of digging up the link for this for you). No apology was ever tendered.

• Infact, the uncouth behaviour continued. Admin:Blnguyen who was somehow observing all this, stepped in and blocked mahawiki for 6 hours. He responded with this. Unless, my eyes are cheating me, he seems to have called Admin:Blnguyen a 'nut'! for being partial to 'vandalisers'(sic) like me!!(p.s: I saw this just now, a few minutes ago).

• Even after that, his uncivil behaviour hasnt stopped. I have given an account of all that to Blnguyen here. Please go through it in its entirety. Also note Blnguyen's comments especially where he observes that the gratuitous use of 'vandalism' by mahawiki was 'poor'.

• After that, he was away for a couple of days. Then, he inexplicably landed on the Kaveri page I was editing and started a frivolous content dispute. You can check the talk page there.

• Blnguyen says I shouldnt have done it, but I went to Marathi people which he was editing and added {{fact}} tags for some cases of brazen POV([3]). Even User:Haphar concurred with me. And if you find out even one inappropriate edit by me in this diff please point out to me(Arya btw is his comrade).

• For that above edit of mine, they responded with this. And as usual, he kept harping about my supposed vandalism(sic) and 'Kannadisation'(sic) on Rajkumar, Rashtrakuta, Kaveri, Kannada, Chalukya, Vijayanagar_empire etc pages. I request you to please go through them and find even one case of a bad faith edit by me on any of those pages. If you cant find any, I request you to come down with a heavy hand on Mahawiki.

• I am starting to lose count of how many people I am explaining all this to. Any user is bound to get frustrated.

• And as for my own uncivil behaviour, all my uncivil behaviour(except these 'damns') were before User:Amerique entered the scene to mediate on the Belgaum page. That was long ago. On the other hand, since then, mahawiki's behaviour has gone from bad to worse, notwithstanding the block that was handed out to him by Blnguyen. Sarvagnya 01:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

• I have said this before on Admin:Sundar's page, then on Blnguyen page(the link i gave few lines above) and now saying it here again. Mahawiki is playing a very dangerous game of spreading misinformation. He is simply crying wolf(vandalism) and taking everyone for a fool. Its high time his bluff was called.

• Once again, I request you to go through this in its ENTIRETY. Sarvagnya 01:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Sarvagnya and his bad-mouthing!

Sarvagnya is frustrated because of his failure in stopping Marathi transliteration on Belgaon page.I request u to go throught the talk page of same article to see if user Amerique or Aksi_great had problems with me.In fact I shall request u to ask about me.I have honoured their advices every time and the reason of this behaviour particular user is insecurity and insanity.Sarvagnya edited out Belgaon even while Aksi_great adviced against,he was crying against Marathi transliteration which was actually a non-issue, he has problems with every language except Kannada.

In fact I am amused by his attention towards me.He has started a campaign to woo admins to block me! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Haphar#Mahawiki_and_Arya In his latest move he is insulting Shivaji.I request u to ask him to stop his behaviour. mahawiki 04:07, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Sarvagnya's new post

>>>I dont give a damn what Maratis call Kannadigas or what is written on Marati wikipedia. This is english wikipedia and the only right term to use is the native term. Using your own hoary term is like using angrezi/ angrez/ firang/ firangi etc., to refer to English speaking people on Wikipedia. And dont hide behind meaningless google hits which only maratis can read. Interestingly, google also gives a hit for Chatripati Shivaji. So right, Chatripati Shivaji(wow.. the name sounds so coooool), he is and will be from now on<<< Now u see how civil and sane person he is.He just wants get me blocked so that he can continue his Kannadi POV imposition everywhere. Plz ask him to stop abusing Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj.He is also deleting my msgs on his talk page.mahawiki 07:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear Sir, I am not even responding him.He is bitching about me here and there.He is reverting out Belgaon,Akkalkot,Kaveri articles without any discussion.He is quoting some figures without any citations and expect us to agree them.He deleted my msgs and Kaveri_water_dispute unnecessarily. I will not be rude to him as adviced.I request u to mediate in above mentioned articles.mahawiki 03:26, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello! Thanks for ur answers.Just hope the admin comes back of wikibreak soon and look into the matter.More nice if Sarvagnya stops his incivil behavior.If it doesnt happen,I will approach to the link u mentioned. Perhaps he has undeleted it himself,as he gave me the link today and its working.I and another editor at Kaveri was unable to find it yesterday. Thanks. Mahawiki 16:46, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Its amazing to what lengths mahawiki will go to slander me. That I deleted the Kaveri_River_Water_Dispute page and then undeleted it myself is the most ridiculous thing I have heard from him so far. It is painful to know that admins like you take his words at face value. Sarvagnya 18:26, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Me slandering u???U r being on mission of kill mahawiki since a week. If u look at the talk page of kaveri u will find that a user,Bostonma was himself not able to find that article and so do i and hence I thought it is being deleted.I request Sarvagnya stop his bitching and dont assume that a newbie should know each and everything about deletion and undeletion.

Yet then a point needs to be clarified...why didnt u give the link of that article when the user was asking it??u were giving responses like I am working on it etc etc...was that to save the embarassment since that article contains Kannadi POV?

Mahawiki 03:53, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Pl. try to understand the difference in self-study and study of one's own self.

Dear Mr.Basawala,

Every time when I write the meaning of Swadhyay as study of one's own self, somebody corrects it as self-study. This time I could see, you have done so.

Dear Mr.Basawala, there is difference in meaning of self-study and study of one's self. Self-study meaning could be vague that a person studying alone in any subject. Where as Study of one's own self is answers to questions like "Who am I?" "Who is my creator?" "What is my relationship with other objects of the world and space?", "Who is creator of the world, sun, moon etc?"

"Swadhyay" is a Sanskrut word. It's origin can be seen in Taiteriy Upnishad" and "Srimad Bhagwad Geeta". The word "Swadhyay" has a specific meaning. If you are a Mohmedian, let me give you an example. I may feel "Namaj" means bowing down to Almighty but The Word "Namaj" may have the different connotation, it may have very deep sense than I could perceive. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, the correct connotation of an important word should be allowed to the viewer. By your edits of meaning of "Swadhyay" as self-study, you are depriving the viewers of sacrosanct meaning of "Swadhyay".

I hope you will understand my view-points and stop editing the meaning given here. I had written a rough article but somebody removed it. I am going to re-write after obtaining some information.

Swadhyayee 09:51, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

My apologies..

First, pl. accept my apologies if there is any difference in Muslims and Mohamedians, in particular if the later term is offensive.

I would like to understand how this term is offensive as I have seen this term being used in number of writings. Are you from India?

After writing my comments on your page, I too was confused as probably you had not changed the meaning of "Swadhyay" to Self-Study from Study of one's self. However, I am not able to make out whether someone could change and yet it could not reflect in history?

Thanks to let me know that the term Mohammdian may be felt offensive to someone.

Swadhyayee 08:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting page link.

Could I understand why the term is offensive?

If not worth posting on public forum, could you e-mail me at jagrut1@hotmail.com?

Swadhyayee 17:04, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Xiaoerjing

I am incredibly sorry for the incredible delay, I have a little trouble with my proxy because the URLs on wikipedia are now filtered. But I have promised, and I have just finished 小儿经, I hope it is of some use. I can translate the article into English, but I don't know the rules here on the English Wikipedia, and also it is time for me to sleep... Sorry again, and Happy Ramadan! --Shibo77 14:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I translated some of User:Basawala/Xiao-er-jin, please excuse my poor English. I am not sure about the method of listing non-English references and book titles. Please correct my grammar and formatting. I also made a little change here: User:Basawala/Urduchart, it is the best Urdu font I have, it's not finished... I hope it helps! --Shibo77 15:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Rural people's knowledge of Chinese characters were very basic, and Chinese characters are not phonetic and also the time was before the invention of Zhuyin Fuhao and Hanyu Pinyin, so people relied on their knowledge of Arabic and Persian alphabets and used Xiao'erjing. But in recent years, education of Chinese characters improved and Hanyu Pinyin is implemented in the education system, there is less need for Xiao'erjing. Most people's knowledge of Arabic and Persian is passive at best, so the tendency for someone to use Xiao'erjing instead of Chinese characters or Hanyu Pinyin is very low. The usage of Xiao'erjing becomes very very limited, and mostly limited to the older generation using it on a personal level. The younger generation may know of it's existence but they can only learn it from their parents or grandparents. There are also plenty of inexpensive dictionaries and reading material in Chinese characters for the people to buy or read. These are some of the reasons why Xiao'erjing is nearing extinction. --Shibo77 10:51, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

You are too kind. If you've other requests I can do them, I am on break at the moment. --Shibo77 11:04, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Comments from Sarvagnya

Hi dear Admin,

This is to bring to your notice the wiki-feud I've been having with User:Mahawiki for almost one month now. It started with the Belgaum page which went to mediation, warnings were handed out to both parties, and when Mahawiki's incivil ways continued, Admin:Bluyugen handed him a warning and then a block. Find that here.

I do not want to turn the clock back and go through all those content disputes again. Infact, I dont want to present to you the details of any content dispute we've had. All I want to present to you is the brazen incivility and personal attacks being committed by User:Mahawiki either in the course of his content disputes or even simply just out of spite.

All the diffs(exhibiting his incivility and personal attacks) I provide below are from AFTER, I REPEAT, "AFTER". ADMIN BLUGYUEN INTERVENED, WARNED ALL OF US, AND HANDED MAHAWIKI A BLOCK.

Please find below dozens of instances of blatant incivility and personal attacks by User:Mahawiki either on me or on User:Dineshkannambadi and all Kannadigas in general. His remarks are in extremely bad taste and counterproductive resulting in undermining of the good faith efforts of the other editors to carry on editing their articles.

While I dont want to go into each and every diff and explain it, just to give you a sample of his incivility, he has made edits where, even if only in jest or sarcasm, he makes atrocious claims like, I am on a kill Mahawiki mission, that User:Dineshkannambadi is the Kannada (Bin) Laden(sic). In another edit, even if only for jest(which I certainly dont find amusing nor appreciate esp., when it comes from him), he has threatened to sue me. He has called us cultural TERRORISTS, losers, notorious, shameless etc., etc. He uses the word vandalism like one would use 'Hi' and 'Hello'.

Find all the above and much much much more in the diffs I've provided below. Whats worse is his antics are going unchecked because Admin:Blugyen who knows about our feud is on a wikibreak and Admin:Sundar whose intervention I've sought more than once, is busy with other things(I presume, in real life) - which ofcourse, I dont hold against either of them.

But wikipedia will be a poorer place if brazen incivility like this goes unchecked for weeks simply because many admins dont know about it or the ones who know are by force of circumstances, too busy to deal with it.

I request immediate and harsh action on Mahawiki.

Once again, let me remind everyone that in the links below, none of them pertain to any content disputes. I belive in dealing with the content disputes on the relevant talk pages and dont usually bring it out on user talk pages.

Infact, I have even not listed below, the atrocious claim he made a couple of days ago that I had deleted and later undeleted an article. Also not listed below is his blatant removal of {{fact}} tags I had added in a couple of articles without even clarifying or providing a citation for the claim which I had tagged. Also not listed below may be umpteen other instances of incivility and npa violations on his part that I might have missed.

All the diffs below deal purely and only with his brazen incivil comments and personal attacks not just on me, but on User:Dineshkannambadi and also highly respected historians like Mr. Suryanath Kamath et al(who have been cited in some articles by Dinesh) whom he has trashed and dismissed in the most uncivil manner possible.

Apart from this he also makes disparaging remarks on Karnataka and Karnataka politicians who he keeps claiming are oppressing and torturing Marathi speaking people in Belgaum. This is not a content dispute, this is plain nonsense and insanely belligerent language.

His incivility apart, he has made it a habit and a routine to go around all over wikipedia branding me and Dinesh as 'Kannadi' vandals bent on Kannadizing all articles we touch. Ask him if we have included any uncited material or if we has ever cited any references for his numerous claims or whether he has taken it up on the article talk page instead of on a random user talk page. His answer will be negative. And yet, that doesnt stop him from going around shouting that we have been vandalising articles!!

Anway, I dont want to veer this towards the 'content disputes' which is a whole different matter altogether. Content disputes can always be discussed and agreements reached. Let me present to you just his brazen incivility and personal attacks.

Here we go -

[4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40]

Sarvagnya 22:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)