Talk:Basenji

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Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit comments - comment history - watch comments · refresh this page) Has a good amount of info. Needs more references and citations. Article should mention that in addition to yodling, barooing, and chortling that they also scream (I very interesting fact, in my opinion)! Needs more images. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 14:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 Sighthound status of the Basenji? 2 unneccesary racist definition 3 Clarity and validity in the introduction paragraph 4 Comment 5 contradict tag for article 6 Nice Egyptian image

[edit] Sighthound status of the Basenji?

There is no significant evidence that can prove the sighthound status of the Basenji. Like most African hounds - those that originate south of the Sahara - it is used to scent hunt, track, and drive game. This is almost invariably done in densely vegetated terrain. That defines it as a hound, not a sighthound. Sighthounds pursue their game by sight, they overpower their game by speed - it is essential for them to do that in open country. Basenjis have been included in the American Sighthound Field Association of the USA simply because their national host club members wished to use them in lure coursing. The original function and use of a breed defines its status or identity - not an assumed use in a foreign country.

The same can be said of a number of other breeds that have been listed in this "sighthound" article. The Podenco's , the Podengo's, the Kelb tal-fenek/Pharaoh hound, the Cirneco, none of them are true sighthounds. The Lagonikos has a name that actually tells you what they are: "Ichnilatis" - tracking dog.

Fraudulent claims and romanticised histories do not further the credibility or reliability of Wikipedia!

Richard Hawkins bh@fernhill.com

Basenjis are classified as sighthounds by the American Kennel Club. If you have an issue with that classification, you should take it up with the AKC. In the meantime, said classification by said organization is a fact, and has been reported as such in the article. Johnny Pez 08:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Johnny Pez, The “fact” you state is incorrect. I suggest you read the Wikipedia article on the Basenji more closely. Note the (correct) AKC classification, the Basenji is an AKC “Hound”. Please see my comments on identity in the Discussion on Sighthounds - <<The AKC does recognise the RR as a "hound". (There is no formal or classified sighthound group in AKC, CKC, or KC usage). It is eligible for AKC lure coursing trials because it had been accepted earlier as such by ASFA (just like the Basenji - another hunting dog which is not a sighthound)>> As yet the AKC has no formal Sighthound Group or classification. It does recognise some non-sighthound breeds as eligible for lure coursing trials. That eligibility was inherited from ASFA. In the future the AKC may well form a Sighthound Group, which may well contain the Basenji. However, the breed will still need to show verifiable historic use as a coursing dog, as opposed to a driving, pack and scent hound, for it to be correctly included in this version of Wikipedia as a sighthound. Consider the FCI Sighthound Group – a truly international defining group as opposed to the ASFA/AKC lure coursing eligible group of hounds – and discuss. Richard Hawkins bh@fernhill.com 7th June 2006

[edit] unneccesary racist definition

as an owner of a basenji.. and a black man in america i found your definition of what a basenji is very interesting.. particularly its origins.. which are undoubtedly African.. akin to all black people of this earth.. undoubtedly African.. I guess that warrants the editors at wikipidea to feel free to dive into their pool of hatred and contempt in a matter as trivial as the history of one of the worlds oldest dog breeds: savage.. illiteriate.. shoddy.. these are some of the derogatory terms used in your description and they have nothing to do with the dog but the people this dog is traditionally associated,with, the black people of Africa.. and most sickening to you the black people of Ancient Egypt.. it amused me you attribute the origins of the name basenji to a french term "my monkey".. really this dog was going by the term basenji hundreds of years before the french even knew Africa existed.. it derives from a Swahili word, an African/Arabic language having nothing at all to do with France.. you want something french.. find a poodle.. and im sure even that has an African origin.. as all humanity does also.. connecting you hate spewing mongers to the very people who inspire your contempt for eternity.. just as the basenji is connected to the same people for eternity.. as immortalized in the beautiful engravings, carvings, script and lore of the worlds premier civilization.. Wikipedia.. you should apologize

Hi, first things first -- please sign your comments, just append four tildes to the end of your message. Having re-read the article I'm not entirely clear on where you feel the racism in it is; the section you appear to be most concerned by (the origins of the word basenji in the "History" section) mentions several possible origins for the word -- basɛ́nzi in Lingala, be'zenji in Arabic, shenzi in Swahili, mbwa shenzi in Kiswahili, as well as the "deformation of the French insult..." that you mention -- I'm not familiar enough with any of these languages to translate the words, and don't know whether they're accurately presented her, however if you can cite a good source for the etymology of the word then that would be a valuable addition to the article.

Also, although there are indeed terms that can be regarded negatively (for example "savage" and "shoddy") used in the article (I wouldn't include "illiterate" as one of these unless it's factually incorrect, I'm not familiar enough with 19th century african literacy rates to know whether or not it is!) they are general employed to reference how the expressions were used at the time -- indeed the article says that the (possibly contested) French expression came from an insult, later the article says that shenzi "... was a derogatory term ..." -- the article isn't using them contemporarily, but rather asserting that this is how they were used then. I hope that if you re-read the article, in particular the history section you seem most concerned by, then you'll see that there isn't the "hatred and contempt" there that you initially perceived.

Lastly, remember that you -- like everyone else here -- are one of the Wikipedia editors, if you feel that an article is incorrect, or that you can add additional value to an entry, then you can edit the article yourself.

Callum 12:02, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clarity and validity in the introduction paragraph

The introduction section of the page states: "Basenjis are capable of barking like other dogs, infact a strange thing with Basenjis is that they have the ability to mimic other dogs and animal sounds." My first complaint is that the grammar and tone of this setence is extremely unprofessional. But before I go ahead and edit, I was wondering about the validity of the statement. I have been a dog fancier for years, and the claim that Basenjis are able to mimic other dogs and animals seems a bit ridiculous, as does the earlier claim that they resemble cats in behavior and temperment. That said, I have never owned a Basenji and am not an expert on the breed per se. Can anyone verify this information? Mllefantine 04:35, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I have never heard this claim about the Basenji, either. I did some quick research and couldn't find anything to verify this claim. I would think it's safe to take it out?--68.174.123.113 05:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

"One odd result of that long relationship is that people tend to attribute personalities to dogs in ways that they simply don’t with other animals. I found a glaring example of this the other day on Wikipedia, the online encyclopedia that anyone can contribute to. It was in the entry for Basenjis, an African breed of dog, clearly written by a besotted owner.

“It is not uncommon for a Basenji to stare down a person, which gives some people an unsettling feeling,” the entry read. And, with my italics, “The stare is not meant as an aggressive act; Basenjis feel that they are of equal stature with humans and are not intimidated by a human’s interest in them.”

Now, I think Wikipedia is a great resource, but come on. To suggest we can know anything about that dog’s feelings of self-worth in relation to humans is ridiculous. Dogs may be great for cancer, heart disease and allergies, but there are still some aspects of the human condition where they are no use at all."

— Financial Times, January 20 2006

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lotsofissues (talk • contribs) .

It was added by MarkK a very long time ago. I've removed this comment, it was unsourced, speculative, and POV, so it really should never have been there. - Trysha ^(talk) 22:35, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Urgh: This sentence shows so much disdain for the Congolese... "The Basenji had all but disappeared from civilization when it was rediscovered in the Congo region of Africa in 1895. There, the Basenji was highly prized by natives for its intelligence, courage, speed, and silence."

Note these words ... civilization, rediscovered, natives... I feel compelled to, eh, edit it. -Mokeni

"Native" means "a person who was born in and lives in a particular area". It is unfortunate that its use in countless Tarzan movies has given "native" the connotation of "dark-skinned savage", but that's no reason to take exception to its use here. Johnny Pez 09:10, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] contradict tag for article

At the top it says it can bark, in the other part of the content it says it can't. Let's clear it up. Thanks. (Bjorn Tipling 05:21, 5 February 2007 (UTC))

Fixed. Basenjis don't bark per se, but they can mimic sounds, and if raised among barking dogs can mimic their barks. I once visited a Basenji breeder in Attleboro, Massachusetts who had a Basenji that had picked up barking from other dogs. Johnny Pez 15:49, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

That's pretty interesting, thanks for clearing that up. (Bjorn Tipling 04:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Nice Egyptian image

There is a nice picture of a Basenji-like dog in ancient Egyptian steles, here and here that maybe we could use. I'm not sure if we can just copy the image or not, so I'll let you guys sort it out. SharkD 19:09, 4 March 2007 (UTC)