User talk:Barefact

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[edit] Plenty of opportunities

Wikipedia gives you plenty of opportunities to display, voice, and substantiate your beliefs

Wrong! wikipedia is not a place for anyone to display their beliefs, it is an encyclopaedia, therefore your POV statements will be taken out, no matter what article you are dealing with.Khosrow II 17:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

did you write all of that yourself or did you just copy paste from another source? also, you need to site which source goes to which section of the artilce. that is what i mean. also, this is not a place for people to put down their "beliefes", its a place for facts and facts only. also, please add comments to the bottom of the page, not the top, and you do not need to create a new section everytime.Khosrow II 00:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


Answer the question, did you or did you not copy paste this from somewhere else? if you have you have to take it off completely or re-write it all in your own words.Khosrow II 18:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


first of all, answer my question: DID YOU COPY PASTE ALL OF THAT INFORMATION FROM ANOTHER SOURCE?
regarding posting on peoples talk pages, just create one header at the bottom regarding what you want to talk about, and then put your messages regarding that in that same section. also, i did not vandalize anything, and the article has some serious POV issues that i and other users will clean up later, once other disputes are settled.Khosrow II 20:08, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
there are two problems with your "addition". 1) it was a copy paste and 2) it was from a pan turk website. The wikipedia policies are on my side, you want to have an admin decide this for us? I would be very happy.Khosrow II 22:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scytho-Iranian theory

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We appreciate your contributions to the Scytho-Iranian theory article, but we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. Perhaps you would like to rewrite the article in your own words. For more information, take a look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Happy editing! —Khoikhoi 02:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I would actually prefer to write—it can be by email, IM, etc. if you want. If you really want to talk, you might try asking someone else about the policy, a good place to go is Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). Sorry about that. —Khoikhoi 23:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The article has been nominated for deletion. You may wish to comment. -- Slowmover 19:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Barefact, I did as a matter of fact email you awhile ago. I'll resend it—let me know if you get it. —Khoikhoi 04:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Strange. Do you mind if I just post the reply here on your talk page? —Khoikhoi 03:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
No, please do post it right here, what else can I do? I still would like the mail to work, it may be that the real asault has not started yet, it was only a first salvo to kill the subject directly, and I may need to know how the mail works to help me rebuff other determined vandalism.
Thank you for your responsiveness
Barefact 04:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm, try going to your preferences and add your email there. Let me know when you have done so. —Khoikhoi 04:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, how bumb of me, I thought that if I send thru Wikipedia machinery the reply would come thru the same machinery, and it did not down on me to check my registered e-mail address until you sent me to preferences. I apologyze for my nuisance. I did receive both replies, thanks.
please discuss something before you revert that far back - FYI, you also erased the dispute tags and interwikis
To erase was not my intent, I have a copy with tags and warnings, and I wanted to upload it tonight, along with a faximile of the page 103 that somebody said is a false quote. Now I will wait for instructions. With whom should I please discuss something before I revert that far back? I will discuss if that is what is needed. Barefact 05:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh, that was you? You weren't logged in. For starters, you should probably use an edit summary next time. What I would do is add back information individually (not all in one big revert) that you don't think is controversial each in separate edits. The stuff that people may dispute should be brought up in a comment on a talk page. You should discuss on the talk page a way to phrase it so the Iranian editors don't disagree with you. Did that help? —Khoikhoi 05:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to be giving you all these troubles, I observe that you are quite involved becides this subject that teaches me how the Wikipedia works. I made a number of pleas with "Iranian editors" (ethnic Iranians or pilitical Iranians? I had no clue that Wikipedia can be ethnic), but no constructive response so far. They just want to remove the subject from public view.
Barefact 20:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
No worries. I believe that they're ethnic Iranians, although "Iranian" isn't a single ethnicity. As you know it's a group of peoples or a nationality. Have you talked to Ali about the issue? I've found him to be quite reasonable. He's the one that said here that he would support renaming the article. Just leave a message on his talk page and see what happens (let me know if it works out). —Khoikhoi 01:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scythia

But before adding topics they need to first be discussed. I learned that the hard way a couple weeks ago. I added information into an article before a consensus was made, got into a revert war, and eventually got blocked for 24h. I know how Wiki works from experience, and the way your doing it is not the right way. Discuss first, come to a consensus, then move on from there.Khosrow II 17:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Let us not get into rv war, stop using proxies, leave contents on, put a disputed tag, and we will discuss. I already spelled out the refute to the objections, accomodated the claim that Acathyrsi are not Scythians, explained the references. I will do it again, if needed,
But do not vandalize the contents in between. You will be reported, especially when your only contribution to the subject is a blanket vandalism.

Barefact 17:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Khosrow is totally correct. If you have reliable information you must bring all the sources.. You can't just claim Herodotus said this without bringing the actual quotes. Also I do not disagree with russian material, but still they need to be verified by Western Sources that are readily available. The reason is that we can't bring unverified sources like your previous article. And your reporting will not do anything really, since you had your other entery closed and have put up a good amount of non-factual information. From now on you need to bring actual quotes from the actual ancient sources in English else I believe I have the right to disagree due to your previous non-factual and wrong quotes. That is evidence must be presented before insertions are made. For example Herodotus differentiates between Agatharisi and Scythians (look at the quote I brought). So they were not Scythians. Greek myths about origins are not factual information to lead to interpolations into Safavid era. Also etymology is not an easy science and similar sounding words (although Aghajari does not sound even like Agatharisi) does not necessarily correspond to cognates. If you want to provce cognate, then you must do so using materials from top linguistics in the area and not popular folk etymology. --Ali doostzadeh 17:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
OK, this is better than vanton blanket deletions. Among the objections the main was that Herodotus differentiates between "Agatharisi" (i.e Agathyrsi, I presume) and Scythians. Your contention is that while Scythians are Scythians, and therefore Iranians, the Agathyrsi are not Scythians, and therefore can be Chinese or any other viable alternative. And that Greek's folk tale about Agathyrsi and Scythian brotherly kinship is irrelevant because Agathyrsi have commonality with Thracians. Did I expressed your objection right?
Does it also apply to Gelons, because Agathyrsi and Gelons taxonomically are on the same level in respect to Scythians, and Gelons also have some differences with Scythians? Does it apply to Amaxobies, Melanchlens etc, who even are not listed as Scythian brothers? Who else is excluded from the Scythian classification?
Barefact 19:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Barefact, the material they keep deleting consists of historiographic cites to Herodotus, Ptolemy, Ammianus, Servius & Priscus for primary sources, and consists only of their information about the Agathyrsi Scythians. It seems they are suppressing this valid, cited addition pretending it is OR when in reality they have political motives (They use their numbers to keep information from view, because that is what their message board does... It's a disturbing trend in the way wikipedia is starting to work...) They are blocking all your edits even when they are historical cites, because they do not like your website. The cites are valid, and I have just added them to the article Agathyrsi where they are more than appropriate. I'd like to see them try to call it Original Research over there. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 18:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: No vandalism for past half hour

Not necessarily. Usually the vandal will stop after being warned enough times. :-) --ZsinjTalk 15:31, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scytho-Iranian theory DRV

Hi,

You're misreading that a little. The DRV request closed before yours (LogMeIn) was improper. Your request was perfectly proper (procedurally speaking), it was simply denied -- that is, the comments formed a consensus to endorse the deletion. Best wishes, Xoloz 21:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:AIV procedure errors.

Please don't report users such as Khosrow II to WP:AIV when they haven't contravened the "Repeat [''sic''] removal of contents after multiple warnings, see Scythia, in tandem with Ali doostzadeh and Arash the Bowman". To do so is an abuse of procedure can can be considered an act of vandalism on your part. The other reports for WP:3RR violations were within procedure and the users have been warned.  (aeropagitica)   (talk)  23:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Sketch from copyrighted article

Can I create my own sketch from a copyrighted material? For example, a scientific publication has a table and a graph, and I want to cite a part of a table or a section of a graph. The citation is not a mechanical reproduction, but a new tabulation or graph image that reflect the contents of the copyrighted article pertinent to the issue. Barefact 14:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

As I understand it (IANAL) there should be no problem with creating an entirely new table or graph representing information from a copyrighted document, as information itself is not subject to copyright (cf. Wikipedia:Copyrights). However, the creative expression of information is subject to copyright, so you would need to be careful not to infringe this; for example, the choice and order of columns and rows in a table, the range and axes of a graph, any line of best fit, etc., could all be subject to copyright if they were judged not to simply be choices which would be obvious to anyone working in the field. TSP 15:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Ordinarily, no. Copying copyrighted material, even if done by hand rather than mechanically, will usually infringe on the owner's copyright. However, in most cases, scientific data resides in the class of "factual material that has been discovered" rather than creative works or matters of opinion. Generally in the US, factual content cannot be copyrighted, though the selection, arrangement, or style of presentation might be (e.g. Feist v. Rural). Since your intention is to take part of the data (presumably copyright exempt) and create a new image from it, you probably have nothing to worry about. Dragons flight 15:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3rr

 You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

abakharev 02:33, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:BC 339KingAteasScythiaAr.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:BC 339KingAteasScythiaAr.gif. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 17:05, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mediation for Scythian-related articles

Admin Alex Bakharev agreed to mediate our dispute over Ossetian Language, Scythia, and other disputes, to prevent future resorting to editing wars. Mediation is a required step in the WP conflict resolution procedure. Please contact # Alex Bakharev (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves) The participants of the subjet editing wars were at least these parties:

  • Ali doostzadeh and/or 69.86.16.239
  • Khosrow II
  • Jpbrenna
  • Arash the Bowman
  • Marmoulak
  • Tajik

You may want to attract other your allies to this mediation effort

Barefact 20:37, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I am looking for help!

I am looking for help to resolve dispute and to end editing wars with a pack of Iranians who vandalize articles to enforce their racial theories. Thanks, Barefact 14:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Can you link the articles you're referencing, please? -- Merope Talk 14:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Scythia or Scythians, Ossetian Language, Kurgans, Masguts (deleted by this Iranian group), Scytho-Iranian Theory (deleted by this Iranian group) Barefact 21:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Follow the steps outlined at Wikipedia:Resolving disputes. --  Netsnipe  ►  18:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
This is what I am doing, following these steps and needing help to bring opponents to a non-militant resolution. Barefact 21:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

(to Barefact) Sorry to say this, but I'd really prefer to not get involved right now. Please give me some time, ok? Thanks. —Khoikhoi 02:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I am equally disturbed and aroused by this kind of organized "Persianizing" vandalism. Please notify me in case of intimidation or reverts without sufficient reason or discussion. Cheers! Rokus01 17:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Warning

you should stop creating random articles with your original material. You will collaborate and honestly edit articles, adhering to WP:CITE and WP:NOR. If you have a point to make about the genome of the Ossetians, do so at Ossetians citing your sources. The way you are trying to sneak your idiosyncracies into Wikipedia is a waste of time for everybody. If you remain obstinate, I do not preclude you might be blocked from editing for disruption. dab (ᛏ) 17:49, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:OssetianGeneticsNasidze2004Fig2A.gif

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 08:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging

You have repeatedly tagged images uploaded by you as "GFDL" or "PD" even though they were not owned or created by you. I have warned you several times about this. Be careful to respect Wikipedia:Image use policy. If you do not understand "GFDL", ask for advice on WP:VP/P. In mis-tagging images you waste the time of people who have to clean up after you. dab (ᛏ) 16:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know all images I uploaded were either created by me or personal material owned by me. If I mistagged an image I would appreciate your help to correct the tag. That will help to save the time of people who do the clean up. Thanks, Barefact 01:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I did help with Image:OssetianGeneticsNasidze2004Fig2A.gif: You cannot take an image from a scientific paper, slap some colouring on it and claim you created it. You have to identify the paper it came from before it can even be useful, and you have to argue fair use. Regarding Image:BC 339KingAteasScythiaAr.gif, why don't you just tell us where you got this image, and which museum is keeping this coin (preferably with its inventory number). dab (ᛏ) 08:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I always appreciate help, thank you, and somehow I did not know about your help with Image:OssetianGeneticsNasidze2004Fig2A.gif, so thank you again. For Nasidze article, I put the source right on the image, to make sure that the source can't be questioned or slandered.
About an image from a scientific paper, I first consulted with WP, and received the following encouraging answer: "in most cases, scientific data resides in the class of "factual material that has been discovered" rather than creative works or matters of opinion. Generally in the US, factual content cannot be copyrighted, though the selection, arrangement, or style of presentation might be (e.g. Feist v. Rural). Since your intention is to take part of the data (presumably copyright exempt) and create a new image from it, you probably have nothing to worry about. Dragons flight 15:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)". I followed these guidelines, especially fortunate because ordinates are part of the factual content, and the original abbreviations were too criptic for WP illustration. I feel comfortable that the sketch is an image truthfully reflecting relative position of the studied groups, with a highlight to mirror the subject of Ossetian genetics. From the WP consultation, I can claim a "fair use". BTW, Nasidze is a secondary article, consolidating a lot of primary research material.
Regarding Image:BC 339KingAteasScythiaAr.gif, I think that publicizing my sources to the whole world is not fair neither to me nor to my sources.
I want to upload a picture of Fillipovka Kurgan, it is a magnificient picture for just completed excavations. For the first time in Russian archeological practice, the kurgan was not only destroyed, but also completely rebuilt. The article is clearly deficient on kurgan pictures. Any good advice how I can do it without running into another editing war? Barefact 21:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ==Your request at User talk:E104421==

You can arrange pictires in a horizontal row using the gallery tag. See Wikipedia:Gallery tag for details. utcursch | talk 08:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeap, that's the way. Regards. E104421 15:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Happy New Year! E104421 13:06, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Happy New Year! E104421 13:06, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, i read the articles you edited, keep up good work. Regards E104421 20:53, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I awarded you with a Wikipedia barnstar which i already added to your user page. Congratulations! E104421 09:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)



[edit] Deletion Warning

[edit] Turko-Persian Tradition

I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article Turko-Persian Tradition, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at its talk page. Removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, but the article may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. Surena 21:31, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

All the reference used for creating this article are referring to the the Turko-Persia concept, and not Turko Persian Tradition.. The term Turko-Persian Tradition is bogus. Surena 21:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I have already removed the notice since it doesn't make sense to place that notice up there. Those articles definitely don't match the speedy deletion criteria. Those deletion notices are not for such content disputes. When an article is referenced that much, it shouldn't be simply tagged "might be bogus" - either give it directly to AfD, or use the talk pages for content disputes. Baristarim 21:40, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
You also put a similar template to "Turko-Persian", but you are admitting that there are sources that mention it. What is going on? Please do not use such templates, and use the talk pages for content disputes. Baristarim 21:40, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
The request was for a proposed deletion and not the speedy one as you stated - You have removed the deletion heading without giving your reasons in the discussion page – that is against the Wikipedia policy (Wikipedia:Proposed deletion). However, the Turko-Persia is different to Turko-Persian - please pay attention. The term Turko-Persian is a fabrication. Surena 00:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
With the Iranian racism flaring in the WP, I thought it was a good idea to have an article that addresses the Turko-Persian historical relations in a positive perspective expressed by respectable academician from entirely neutral position. It gives the background, historical perspective, and a number of aspects of the phenomenon. It gives the decent members of the Persian community a chance to enrich the article by showing the deep roots of the Turko-Persian history. With the guise for deletion like "correct name for that culture is the Persianate culture not the "Turko-Persian", and "Turko-Persian Tradition" – This is misinformation", Surena not only dismisses the respected neutral academical views, she dismisses her own mottos "Truth for the sake of truth" - Ancient Persian Proverb, and "The best mode of instruction is to practise what we preach - Persian Proverb. Turko-Persian cultural symbiosis is directly and indirectly described in thousands of books and studies, no racist propaganda can erase or delete it. Barefact 02:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Your message

Sorry, which article/edit are you talking about? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 00:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, I found it. the way to give such information (a "diff", meaning "difference") is to give the URL, like this — then the other person can find it easily.
If you look, you'll see that I reverted to a version that had been corrected (for example, it had changed the non-existent word "Islamicate" to "Islamic", had corrected the link from [[Persianate]] to [[Persianate society|Persionate]], improved the lead sentence so that the article title was together and bolded, according to the MoS, changed the non-standard "8th c." to the MoSed "8th century", and so on. I also made the English consistent (some had been American English and some British English). Is that what you wanted to know? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Levirate marriage

Thank you for your addition of material there. However, I found the wording (your translation?) confusing, and have removed most of it to the talk page. I hope we can work together to strengthen and clarify it so it can be re-added to the article. I am sympathetic to those whose written English is not perfect, and welcome Wikipedians who recognise that they may need a little help in this direction. BrainyBabe 12:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Just a note to say I am not able to log on as often as I would like. I am working on a response to your helpful suggestions. It may take a few rounds of my comments and then yours, as I am finding the material complex. Thank you for your patience. BrainyBabe 22:15, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I am leaving levirate marriage as it is. However, in researching something else, I came across the Wikipedia policy on translations, under "language" in WP:A (for attribution). It recommends that the original be provided in a footnote, and I can see the sense in this. Hope you find this helpful. BrainyBabe 16:47, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments but please can we keep this in one place please?! I drew it to your attention because I'd never heard of the policy. I agree that it is observed more in the theory than the reality, i.e. hardly at all. I drew the conclusion that very few people had heard of the policy, and perhaps you were among them. I like your suggestion of a "side pouch". (It could help with contentious images as well, for example; if I want to read about, e.g. torture, but don't want to risk a gory image slapping me in the eyeballs.) Why not suggest that in an appropriate forum? I wouldn't know where to start. As for levirate marriage, as I said, I'm leaving it as it is. If you want to make the additions of the Russian original in footnotes, that would be great, but it is a lot of typing, very tedious. I'm not asking you to. It would be a welcome move towards the Platonic ideal of an encyclopedia. Best wishes to you. BrainyBabe 09:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] Personal attacks

Regarding comments such as this: Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. . --InShaneee 16:35, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I am not currently in a position where I wish to get involved in any sort of dispute resolution, though I support any efforts to initiate them. I will reiterate that regardless of the situation, a certain professional tone must be maintained. "This information is not factual because of X" is ok; "You are a liar because of Y" is not. Comments must be directed at content, not the people who create it. If you truly believe that an editor is simply working to the detriment of the Wiki, then there are proper channels to deal with this through; simply continuing to lob accusations directly at the editor and to others on talk pages serve no purpose. --InShaneee 21:01, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I came here to make the same points; your language and attitude at Talk:Turko-Persian tradition are unacceptable. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:03, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I find both of you right and myself wrong in regards to personal comments on this [1]. I would appreciate your advice on how to productively handle the situation in this and in similar cases, when deceptive tactics plays the system to the advantage of people who work full time to enforce their parochial and racist dogmas, not infrequently resorting to bad faith and covert editing practices. Personal attacks are not acceptable, and Ali doostzadeh rightfully brings frequent complains against editors who abchore his methods, and there should be an equally rightful way to defend from militant and deceitful methods without resorting to personal attacks. Barefact 17:18, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
You've launched a half-dozen personal attacks in that statement alone. If you want to be taken as seriously trying to resolve this situation, you have to stop commenting on other editors. --InShaneee 05:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] UNESCO publications

Will you please clarify if UNESCO scientific publications and their components are copyrighted? I did not see UNESCO publications with copyright notice, but neither I saw a disclaimer about public domain. By its nature UNESCO is a most public entity around, but the PD tag does not specifically list UNESCO as a public domain source. Barefact 23:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The U.S. government is somewhat unique in making all its publications public domain. Even most governments within the U.S. maintain copyrights. Anyway, the relevant UNESCO policy is found at the disclaimer page, and says
“ All rights reserved.

This information may be freely used and copied for educational and other non-commercial purposes, provided that any reproduction of data be accompanied by an acknowledgement of UNESCO as the source ( © UNESCO ).

This does not apply to the pages and images with explicitely reserved reproduction right : © followed by the right owner and the year of first circulation. Reproduction of the latter requires prior authorization from the author.

 ”
That looks like it fails Wikipedia requirements for direct quotations to me. Αργυριου (talk) 23:48, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
"Non-commercial use only" licenses are never acceptable per WP:C, but we still could use short quotations with proper attribution in a normal scholarly style. We just wouldn't be able to copy the material wholesale or large parts. Seraphimblade Talk to me Please review me! 02:00, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
With the picture of the Chinese characters, you have several options here. (It looks like you accidentally put {{PD-self}} on the existing one, as it's not your image, you'll want to remove that.) However, that brings us to our easiest option. Since the picture is just a table of Chinese characters, you could simply make your own table in a different format! Remember, information is not copyrightable, only its specific layout and presentation sometimes is. (Even that sometimes is not, for example, if the layout would be the only logical one possible and that would be obvious to anyone in the field, but that doesn't seem the case here.) In that case, the newly-created image is yours to do as you like with. You could also contact UNESCO and ask if they'd be willing to license that image under GFDL, and that will quite often work, especially since that's not too much of a departure from their existing license as it is (aside from allowing commercial use). Copyright law's a tricky thing sometimes, but hope that's helpful! Seraphimblade Talk to me Please review me! 20:55, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
{{PD-self}} is not accidental: I created my own sketch based on a photo of a page in the publication, but I retained the format of the original. I applied {{fairuse}} and {{PD-self}} tags, but I was not sure if they correctly apply to the sketch that retains the format of the original. As you suggested, I will change the format in the sketch, and then I would appreciate help with the copyright tagging. Barefact 17:30, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
If you sketched that yourself (sketched, not traced), the formatting layout is probably too trivial to itself be copyrightable. I should think from there that {{PD-self}} would be fine so long as it's not a trace or photocopy. Seraphimblade Talk to me Please review me! 17:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I had a look, but quite honestly, I'm not sure how that shakes out! (Copyright law is a pretty nasty mess sometimes). If you do communicate with the author, though, perhaps you could get his permission to release that particular sketch under the GFDL (or straight public domain)? That would be the easiest way of solving the matter. (Just "permission to use on the web" or "permission to use on Wikipedia" or "noncommercial use only" is still considered a non-free license here, for a free license it must also be free to use for those who wish to reuse it in the future.) If you can't do that, I might ask at WT:FU, a lot of the people who frequent that page deal with tricky copyright stuff frequently, and probably could give you a better answer then I could. Seraphimblade Talk to me Please review me! 00:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I would greatly appreciate you help via WT:FU, to eliminate potential defamation and attempts to delete the pertinent facts. ....And do I need to cross-post my question on your page to attract your attention, as I was doing, or is it a redundant hassle? Barefact 19:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pan-Turkism

Sure, I've replied there. Also, I've read all about the Meskhetian Turks before. I've actually contributed to that article a great deal. Are you sure that the words Meskheti and Massagetae are related? I've also heard of the population transfer in the Soviet Union. Most of these ethnic groups were accused by Stalin of collaboration with the Nazis, but I'm not sure how correct he was on that. Khoikhoi 09:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

He deported Georgians too, his own people. Khoikhoi 04:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redirects

Barefact, just follow the link and make the Old Turkic Alphabet and article or dismbig. It is not protected or anything.

It may depend on the skin you use. But in my skin if I follow a redirect I got From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia\(Redirected from Old Turkic alphabet). The link there leads you to the redirect itself that you can edit Alex Bakharev 22:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


Thank you so much for help and education. Barefact 23:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Turkic alphabets

Good start on the new article. I'm on Newpages patrol a lot, and it's nice to see a new article that is good right from the start. Realkyhick 06:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

  • The history of the article is here, the last edit before the merge is there. If you disagree with transferring the article into a redirect, then just revert (and provide explanation on the talk page). There was no administrative actions on the article yet, so no abuse of the admin tools. From the wikipedia point of view a redirect is just a short article that have one line, transferring into redirect does not wipe out the article content, it is still there in the history and easily reversible. Dab is a very knowledgeable user but sometimes not very polite, still try to talk with him and get some sort of mutual understanding. Alex Bakharev 00:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Alex put it very well, and it appears that the article is back to its old form. I agree that you and Dab need to talk with each other. Frankly, the article subject is way out my league, so I can't help much with verification and such. I'm also not an admin, so I can't mediate any conflict between the two of you. Good luck, and let me know if I can help in any other way. Realkyhick 01:13, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:ChorasmianCoinTuranYabgu.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:ChorasmianCoinTuranYabgu.gif. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 07:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Privacy Violation for User's Page

Please see this. Thanks! Real96 20:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you have made a mistake in telling me, because I am not an oversight member. I have told you to report the incident to the oversight committee via email (oversight-l@lists.wikimedia.org). However, I forwarded your e-mail to the oversight committee, and they will have the information removed. Cheers! Real96 00:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Turko-Persian Tradition

I left a message on that article's talk page, but generally, merging after an AFD closes as keep is fine, because merging is an editorial decision that can be made outside an AFD, and no content is lost (since the merged article is replaced with a redirect, but not deleted). --Coredesat 22:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: G. I. Krivosheev

Thanks for the tips. Unfortunatly, I cannot read Russian - could you perhaps create a stub on Grigory Fedot Krivosheev? Also, two notes: you may want to consider adding WP:BABEL language templates to your userpage, and consider pasting replies to talk pages of users who make original comments (many, like me, don't check other users talk pages for replies, and I found out about your reply by accident).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  16:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Author permission for a straight public domain

[2]

The author gave me permission to post materials of his book on the web, for a straight public domain. I used illustrations (which, I think, are the author's tracings of pictures given to him to be used in his book) to create a combination sketch which includes copies of the author's illustrations. Question: what copyright tag I should use in posting my sketch in the WP? If you need additional details to answer this question, I will be happy to help you to help me. Barefact 05:53, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

What do you/the author mean by "for a straight public domain"?
In general, you can only use this material if the author (assuming he's still the copyright holder) would agree to give permission for anyone to use the material for any purpose. Simply giving "permission to post materials of his book on the web" is not enough for Wikipedia. --Abu badali (talk) 16:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The phrase "for a straight public domain" was used by WP advisor in response to my above question. I understood that the "straight public domain" is synonimous with "permission for anyone to use the material for any purpose". Granted that, what copyright tag I should use in posting my sketch in the WP? Barefact 17:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Would you please advise me what copyright tag I should use in posting my sketch in the WP? Can you advise me? Barefact 14:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, that's a strange case. First, make sure the book's author hold the copyrights of these illustrations. If I understood correctly, these illustrations are derivative works of "of pictures given to him". Who owns the copyrights of these pictures?
After making sure this author owns these illustration's copyrights, you must (according to WP:COPYREQ#When permission is confirmed) ask him to send an e-mail to "permissions-en AT wikimedia DOT org" identifying the pictures and explaining he agrees to release it under a free license (like gfdl, cc-by or cc-by-sa) or to the public domain. Then ask some editor with access to the otrs system (like User:Jkelly) to look for this email in the system and give you the "otrs number" for this email. After that, upload the images and tag them with either {{gfdl}}, {{cc-by-2.5}} {{cc-by-sa-2.5}} or {{PD-release}}, according to which license the author choose to release his image. Also, use the {{PermissionOTRSOnly}} tag with the otrs number User:Jkelly gave you.
Let me know if you need any help. Also, you may want to read Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for more information on the process. Best regards, --Abu badali (talk) 15:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
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