Talk:Barm

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This page has been successfully copyedited by The Copyeditor's League. Rintrah 15:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

What a ridiculous article. It is clearly a bap.

I don't understand the part of the first sentence following the semicolon. Rintrah 13:55, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] a hoax?

I'm proposing to copyedit this article as is shown below, however, when I got to the end of the rewrite I started to wonder if this whole article might not be a hoax. When I looked up the term barmy I found it means "completely lacking in good sense or reason" according to Encarta. Can anyone enlighten me?

Also, can anyone verify the citation, if this is legit? --JAXHERE | Prevaricate at me 14:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

On first inspection, it appears so because it is very silly. However, a google search seems to validate it, so it must be a clever one. I am still suspicious, though I am willing to give the original contributor the benefit of the doubt. If you want to verify it, I suggest you find the 1911 Britannica entry. If it exists, Brittanica must have also succumbed. i have another question: should we rely on a source that is 100 years old? Rintrah 13:40, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I've found the following in searching:

• Recipie for Barm Brack Cake on BBC.co.uk*The History of Bread Yeast refers to barm as yeast
• [Online Etymology Dictionary: barm O.E. beorma "yeast," also "head of a beer," from PIE base *bher- "to boil up" (cf. Du. berm, M.L.G. barm, L. fermentum "substance causing fermentation," Skt. bhurati "moves convulsively, quivers," M.Ir. berbaim "I boil, seethe"), from base *bhreue- "to boil, bubble, effervesce, burn" (see brew). Hence, barmy "frothing" (1535); fig. sense of "excitedly active" is attested from 1602. Meaning "foolish" (1892) is probably an alteration of balmy (see balm).]

• Blog entry Shows a photo of a Pie Barm.

• yahoo answers had a survey which shows a wide difersity of opinions over what barm are. The replies confirm that the term is in current use and that there is a differing of meanings attached to the term.

This convinces me that this is a genuine term, in use today and that the debate is still unresolved. --JAXHERE | Prevaricate at me 15:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I am too lazy to check each one of them. I take your word for it. Rintrah 15:48, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

A hoax or not, I'm leaning in the direction of saying this article should be deleted on the ground that it violate the "Wikipedia is not a dictionary" rule. I'm too apathetic about it to propose deletion myself, but I figured I'd at least push the subject forward. Trusilver 03:00, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The debate section is not dictionary content. I would regret the article being deleted, for it is very fun to read. It should only be deleted if it is in fact a hoax. Rintrah 03:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Rintrah. This article, particularly because of the debate goes beyond a dictionary definition and starts to border on a sort of urban legend because of the debate which, I suspect, is kept alive by tacit consent of all who participate in it. --JAXHERE | Prevaricate at me 14:16, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

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Proposed edit

Barm is a word common to Teutonic languages defined as the scum formed on the top of malt liquor when fermenting; yeast used to leaven bread, or (as a verb) to set up fermentation in liquor.

[edit] Debate over usage

In the Northwest of England (South of the region/Cheshire), - a Barm, or Barm Cake, is a soft, flat, round bread roll, commonly used to make a variation of the Chip butty. But in the more rural regions to the North and East of Manchester it is considered that Muffin is the corect term for such a bread product, producing: Chip Muffin, Sausage Muffin, etc. Supermarkets in the region even have a product called an oven bottom Muffin on sale.

Yet, in a snack kiosk at the Manchester Airport viewing park the word Barm is used offering sausage and bacon butty bun barms.

The Barm versus Muffin debate is one that is seems perpetual in the Manchester area even though both sides seem to agree that both products are very similar in design. The two opposing sides agree that product is definitely not a Teacake, which is considered to be a completely different bread product altogether and is generally found in the Sheffield area.

It may be that the debate is moot since the product is a bread roll.

And yet, perhaps, neither barm nor muffin may be the definitive term for a bread roll; in other parts of the UK, the words such as bap and cob are used.

• No, it's not a hoax. Proper 'Barm Cakes' are as described. However, many people call the simple bread roll a barm cake too. Supermarkets and bakers sell packs of bread rolls labeled 'Barm Cakes' even though they're not. During my travels in the UK I've come across various names for the same thing. ie. Bun, Bap, Batch, Cob, Roll. Some parts of Lancashire may refer to a 'Barm Joey'. As in ... "I'll have a turkey salad 'barm joey' please, with no mayo on". 80.192.242.187 14:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.

[edit] Barm - Barmy??

As someone from the North West of England the word "barmy" is common currency to describe a person who is a little crazy or 'not right in the head'. It is said that in the days of small bakeries, barm ( a mixture of yeast, water and natural sugars) was kept in the bakery to leaven the loaves. This mixture naturally produced alcohol which, in the heat of the kitchen, was consumed by the bakers after the loaves and cakes were baked. This was a 'perk' of the job and a right of the baker. Given that bakers keep early hours the drinking of the barm probably started mid-morning and given that the barm was alcoholic, it could be said that someone who was drunk on barm would appear to be a little crazy or 'barmy'Greenbat9 23:37, 15 January 2007 (UTC)