Talk:Barbados

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[edit] Country name

What's with adding conventional_long_name under the title? Looks like a scripting error, but how do you get rid of it or correct it?

[edit] Tourist destination

The words Barbados is now a major tourist destination appear in the Geography section. This seems to suggest that, not so long ago it wasn't a major tourist destination. I don't know at what point you could start to call it a major destination, but that change is not something new. Not so? Guettarda 17:07, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I accidentally cropped this from the article header while adding the caption about the length and the breadth of the island to the Geography section.
About the part about Barbados tourism. I guess the current will suffice. According to most records, Barbados has been "formally" involved in tourism since around the late 1960's just after independence. However, for much of that time the island wasn't really a "major" destination per se. Only in the last 3-4 years has Barbados topped 1 million visitors per annum, regionally speaking that amount is now considered among the high totals for visitors.
The new class of super cruise-ships released in recent times are whats contributing towards boosting the amount of tourist numbers to the island in any given year. CaribDigita 02:53, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I suppose I would have defined "major" a little more liberally than you...I think it would be interesting to insert that information (that since 200X B'dos has topped 1 million visitors p.a). I wonder if there is a list in Wikipedia of the top tourist destination, by visitor attendance. Guettarda 03:03, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I haven't seen anything on here that has much tourism information about the Caribbean. Can you believe if you goto wikipedia's tourism section you will see virually nothing about the Caribbean Region? Likewise if you goto the UN's World Tourism Organization or World_Tourism_Rankings again, there's nothing about the Caribbean. I love Wikipedia, but the info about our region rather has much to be desired. I can't just complain, so I just have to help change some of that. :-) Soo much to change, so little time in the day.

I have a few articles saved by tourism officials from the Caribbean Tourism Organisation (CTO), with various figures but I have to cross check it against at least another source before I post it as a fact. you know what I mean? CaribDigita 11:08, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What's with the removal of the CARICOM political union template?

What's with the removal of the template for the CARICOM political/economic union? Removing the CARICOM union is like removing the EU one template from like one of the Europe countries.

If anything we should dump the West Indies one, "West Indies" who even still calls the region that anymore, other then people from outside?

CARICOM is much more importaint to the region then the West Indies banner. CARICOM *governs* the free movement of people, the proposed currency union, the Caribbean Court of Justice, the Caribbean (CARICOM) Single Market and economy, the (proposed) Single Caribbean Stock Exchange between Jamaica, Barbados and Trinidad and Tobago, the single Caribbean passport, the regional civil society charter, and the list goes on...

The CARICOM template are *the* islands, and when it makes a rulings at the Caribbean Court of Justice it can even govern island above the government on that island... The Commonwealth one I guess can go, that's not all that importaint either. The CARICOM one needs to stay I don't know any other template that would be more #1 then the CARICOM one.

West Indies doesn't control the islands. CARICOM does.

When the United States wants the islands to vote a certain way they petition/lobby one island which in turn informs the heads of "CARICOM" and they all deliberate on the issue as a CARICOM. The islands mostly only vote as a bloc, as a CARICOM in favor of or against usually just as the EU. CaribDigita 04:44, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Little England?

Barbados, or as known by the British "Little England"... - is it? I've never in my life heard anyone refer to Barbados as this; if the term crops up it invariably means the more seculded, insular, parts of (middle) English culture. Shimgray 20:21, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Little England" has been Barbados' nickname for a long long time (probably a few hundred years). Not sure how widely it is used, but it certainly is neither recent nor minor. Guettarda 20:25, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The nickname "Little England" and also "Bimshire"(Used less frequently) has been around for a long time as Guettarda rightfully stated. It's been used for various reasons throughout the centuries.
One of the more recent instances according to Barbados legend is when the Chief Minister of the colony of Barbados, Grantley Adams sent a telegraph message to Winston Churchill during World War II. And stated "Don't worry, Little England is with you." and as the story goes it's an attempt to explain how Barbados became the first British Colony to declare war on Germany in 1939.
None the less. Many travel sites include the tid-bit about Barbados being nicknamed as "Little England".

P.S. feel free to try a search on Google under "Barbados Little England" and see how many reference sites pop up. CaribDigita 23:44, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm British and I've never heard this either. It's a historical usage and/or a guidebook curiosity, not something that is familiar in modern Britain. But it isn't in the article at the moment anyway. Osomec 04:30, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
Just because you maybe un-knowledgable of this fact does not make it false. If you follow what most general Brits. today knew about the Caribbean many would still--- be under the belief that Barbados and the rest of the islands of the Caribbean are geographically a part of the island of Jamaica, even though as the crow flies (Barbados and Jamaica) are about 1000 miles apart. Also, the economic status of Barbados' (current or otherwise), has NOTHING to do with a nickname. How do you substante your claim that they do?
I guess you're also un-knowledgable of the fact that just as it's been understood that Haiti *was* one of France's richest colonies anywhere on the planet. Barbados, in getting an early lead in the west indies of switching from Tobacco to Sugar Cane was also for a time- was one of Britain's most wealthy colonies in the world as well. Are you aware of that either? Probably not.
Were you at all aware that London's Trafalgar Square (right under your nose probably) is actually a 'knock off' of Barbados' Trafalgar Square? That's right the statue of Lord Nelson -- in Barbados over looking it's Trafalgar Square is actually 27 years older- then Lord "Nelson's column" in London's Trafalgar Square, you were probably not aware of that again. But to digres, Barbados wasn't known as "Little England" in the colonial days because of it's wealth, or because of pomp, or how much "stuff" it had, it was known as "Little England" because of it's strict adhearence to continue following middle-England British colonial customs even after independence those are the facts. Look that up if you wish. CaribDigita 16:18, 6 August 2005 (UTC)


CaribDigita, you are absolutly correct. Excellent Post.

[edit] Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board

I would like to announce the establishment of the Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board. Anyone with an interest in the Caribbean is welcome to join in. Guettarda 1 July 2005 03:41 (UTC)

In the book Witch of Black Bird Pond, it is like about barbados and west indies!

[edit] Don't you think there is a small mistake here ?

In the History area I can read : " In Barbados and the rest of the British West Indian colonies, full slavery was preceded by an apprenticeship period that lasted six years. " The word "freedom" should replace the word "slavery" isn't-it ?

New sentence should be: " In Barbados and the rest of the British West Indian colonies, full freedom was preceded by an apprenticeship period that lasted six years. "

I did'nt correct directly the text because as a french native I don't think I am the perfect person to do so.

Actually it is correct. What should probably be added is that Slavery of African decendents was preceded by an apprenticeship period involving mainly citizens of the United Kingdom. When most of those persons became free, African slavery was implemented instead. CaribDigita 22:22, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] ?

is barbados in the west indies?


Yes it is in the West Indies. It is the most easterly of all the islands in the West Indies or Caribbean chain.

[edit] ?

What is Barbadoes water

In Peregrine Pickle, "That everything might be answerable to the magnificence of this delicate feast, he had provided vast quantifies of strong beer, flip, rumbo, and burnt brandy, with plenty of Barbadoes water for the ladies"

Barbadoes Water was one of the first names given to "Rum" after it was discovered. Under the rum article, see the section Origins of the name (near the bottom of that section). CaribDigita 05:32, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually, it is said that rum was invented in Barbados, 20 November 2005

[edit] ?

I'm not sure whether to add new content to the top or bottom. Here's my $0.02: I changed the word "settlement" to "invasion" to which CaribDigita replied "Not correct: Barbados never changed hands/nor has it ever been successfully invaded since settlement."

I was actually referring to the British / European invasion itself. Was not the island inhabited by an indigenous group before the British arrived? This was the invasion I was speaking of, but I could be wrong.

I'll leave it like it is though since there's no point in fighting.

Hi there, nope I'm not being mean. That's not my intention at all. There's evidence that Barbados was inhabited previously, as well as 'accounts' by the decendent of "Carib" tribes on other islands about their habitation of Barbados previously. The island supposedly only had a large population of wild pigs, (suspected as being left by the Portuguese, so they could return to Barbados one day). All accounts of the Barbados establishment state though that Barbados had no people living there at the time. In which case there would be no one to really "invade". One rumour I heard but can find no source to back it up is suposedly the Dutch and French did try to invade the island long after the Brits were established but a revolt on the island supposedly made the invaders retreat. Suposedly this revolt was said to be a result of the citizens not knowing if the Franch or Netherlands would allow Barbados to maintain their same level of Sovereignty under Britain and thus to preserve it the French and then Netherlands had to be ran from the island. CaribDigita 04:00, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Demographics

When describing the demographics of Barbados, don't you think it is unfair and extremely rude to quote bajan hindus and muslims. This is incorrect as hindu and muslim are names given to people belonging too specific religious groups, and not any racial group within a society.

[edit] Trivia

This article's second citation, "Barbados.org," states that the Declaration of Independence, and not the Constitution of the United States, was cribbed from a then 150 year old Barbadian document. I knew that claim sounded a little too far fetched. Someone may want to correct this error. This also provides the missing citation for that piece of trivia.

On Countrywatch.com (Let me know if you need a Login/Pass you can use) it states:

" http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Barbados&action=edit&section=9 History

In terms of its history, Barbados was originally inhabited by indigenous Arawak Indians, and later by indigenous Carib Indians. The British sailors who landed on Barbados in the 1620s, at the site of present-day Holetown on the Caribbean coast, however, found the island uninhabited. As elsewhere in the eastern Caribbean, invading Caribs may have annihilated Arawak Indians. It is generally believed that the Carib peoples subsequently abandoned the island.

From the arrival of the first British settlers in 1627-28 until independence in 1966, Barbados was under uninterrupted British control. Nevertheless, Barbados always enjoyed a large measure of local autonomy. Its House of Assembly, which began meeting in 1639, is the third-oldest legislative body in the Western Hemisphere, preceded only by Bermuda's legislature and the Virginia House of Burgesses. It even developed a local constitution, a document so sophisticated in its democratic thought that it was used as a blueprint by the American Founding Fathers to formulate the United States Constitution.

As was the case for many Caribbean islands, sugar production, as well as a plantation economy and society, mark Barbados' colonial history. With the development of the sugar industry into the main commercial enterprise, Barbados was divided into large plantation estates that replaced the smaller holdings of the early British settlers.

The sugar industry also had a direct effect upon the population of the island. Some of the displaced farmers relocated to British colonies in North America. In addition, slaves were brought from Africa to work on sugar plantations. Two centuries later, the slave trade ceased and in 1834 slavery was abolished throughout the British Empire.

Plantation owners and merchants of British descent dominated local politics. It was not until the 1930s that the descendants of emancipated slaves began a movement for political rights. One of the leaders of this movement, Sir Grantley Adams, founded the Barbados Labor Party in 1938. Progress toward more democratic government for Barbados was made in 1951, when universal adult suffrage was introduced. Steps toward increased self-government followed this development, and in 1961, Barbados achieved internal autonomy.

From 1958 to 1962, Barbados was one of 10 members of the West Indies Federation, and Sir Grantley Adams served as its first and only prime minister. When the federation was terminated, Barbados reverted to its former status as a self-governing colony.

Following several failed attempts to form another federation composed of Barbados and several other British colonies in the Caribbean, the country negotiated its own independence at a constitutional conference with the United Kingdom in June 1966. After years of peaceful and democratic progress, Barbados became an independent state within the British Commonwealth on Nov. 30, 1966. Since then, it has been a stable and democratic country. -- Countrywatch.com | " CaribDigita 16:23, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

My findings: Countrywatch about 90% of the time gets all their information from the United States Department of State http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/26507.htm , however- oddly enough the Barbados profile on the US Dept. of State doesn't contain that sentence. I'm going to remove that Trivia line for now pending a credible source. CaribDigita 18:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] comma comma comma

I am not the type to be the grammar police, but this paragraph has so many commas it's pretty much unintelligible.

Important parts of the isles, history included, a increasing amount of Black Slaves brought to the isle, a situation started in the 1620s, 5000 locals died of fever in 1647, with 10s of slaves executed by Royalist planters in the 1640s, as they feared the principles, of the English Civil War's Levellers, would spread to the slave population, if the Parliament took the isle. But in the end, the Levellers, wishes for a democratic Republic.


Since I am not knowledgeable about this subject, could someone else reword this into something readable? Teekno 12:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Education

I would like to see some information about the education system in Barbados, as I know nothing about it. I came to this page looking to read about Universities in particular. Sven Erixon 15:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm probably not the best person to start an Education in Barbados section. However here's some info.

Few articles concerning education in Barbados: 1) http://www.cp-pc.ca/english/barbados/learning.html 2) Article: Good report card - by TONY BEST Date: Friday, February 18th, 2005 Source: www.NationNews.com - Barbados Nation News Link: http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tropical_Canada/message/1513 3) http://bararchive.bits.baseview.com/archive_detail.php?archiveFile=./pubfiles/bar/archive/2006/April/16/Editorial/18382.xml&start=220&numPer=20&keyword=Barbados+Schools&sectionSearch=&begindate=1%2F1%2F1994&enddate=12%2F31%2F2006&authorSearch=&IncludeStories=1&pubsection=&page=&IncludePages=1&IncludeImages=1&mode=allwords&archive_pubname=Daily+Nation%0A%09%09%09

CaribDigita 15:20, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] History section

These two sentences

Important parts of the isles, history included, an increasing amount of Black Slaves brought to the isle, a situation started in the 1620s, 5000 locals died of fever in 1647, with 10s of slaves executed by Royalist planters in the 1640s, as they feared the principles, of the English Civil War's Levellers, would spread to the slave population, if the Parliament took the isle. But in the end, the Levellers, wishes for a democratic Republic.

make absolutely no sense... Please clarify. /Grillo 18:32, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

After reading through the entire history section, I find that it's all in all very hard to understand, and times to times almost impossible to read. Someone who can understand the text, please rewrite. /Grillo 18:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


Did you know: Did you know that the famous singer, Rihanna, Was born in Barbados

[edit] Pointless and inconsistent use of "CE" date suffix

I suggest CE should be removed (from the english language article) since it probably confuses everyone, except the person that introduced it. At the very least the user should have provided a link to an article on the use of CE/BCE instead of BC/AD and amend all the other dates for consistency.

It seems pointless to me to start introducing "CE" as postfix to dates i.e. "350 CE", unless it is to highlight some sensible deviation from the norm (or I get a percentage of the google search revenue). I believe that the norm (in the English speaking world) is for dates to default to AD and as such there is only a need for a post-fix if they refer to BC (or BCE!). Otherwise we should also start prefixing all our numbers with the plus sign (assuming there isn't some more politically correct symbol).

If the dates do warrant a post-fix then most people reading the english will immediately understand BC/AD, but not the CE/BCE the user seems to prefer.

What was the users intention for introducing CE? Perhaps one of the following: 1)To confuse the maximum amount of people with the least amount of letters? 2)To conserve the letters A and D by replacing them with B and C? 2)To highlight some offset in dates? Is 350CE the same as 349AD or 351AD?

Ratuk 15:58, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Royal Anthem" yes or no?

I feel this Royal Anthem thing should be voted on. I think having it included in the infobox is mis-leading it makes far--more of a simple organisation like the "Commonwealth" or the British monarchy than they really are. Just yesterday I brought up the topic on the Canadian talk page with the aim of trying to locate a vote taken or even some discussion on Wikipedia on why it is worthy to adding the British Queen's "Royal Anthem" to a sovereign country's template. Reason being, the Queen's song I think belongs on the Queen's article (which it is). Many Commonwealth countries have a representative of the Queen which does everything on her behalf and have no actual input from from Monarch. I believe the so called "Royal Anthem" has no bearing in some commonwealth countries. Placing this "Royal Anthem" next to "National Anthem" gives the impression that the Queen's song actually holds some significance in that country, which it really doesn't in some cases. In Barbados the so called "Royal Anthem" is neither covered in the constitution nor-- in official information from the Prime Minister's office of Barbados which maintains oversight over all of Barbados' official national symbols and emblems. Some of this material even states that when the Monarch is present or-- their representative is, the Barbados- national anthem will be played, nothing is mentioned of the so called "Royal Anthem". CaribDigita 00:50, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Include the Queen's song to the country template: Yes(do), or No(don't)?

[edit] Yes


[edit] No

  • As per nomination. I suggest reserving the Queen's song inside the Queen's article. See above. CaribDigita 00:50, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
  • No, not without a supporting citation. Guettarda 01:29, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

  • It's pretty simple really - everything in an article needs to be verifiable. Is there a reliable source that says that God Save the Queen has official standing in Barbados? If not, it doesn't belong in the article. Guettarda 02:38, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Thank you, that is even more simple yet. That's the straight forward of this mater. CaribDigita 21:25, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Royal anthem from CaribDigita's talk page

CaribDigita, I take your points that the royal anthem is not the national anthem of Barbados, but at no point was anyone claiming that it was. You say that the "Royal anthem" is not a national symbol of Barbados, which by extension would mean that the Queen is also not a national symbol of Barbados, despite her being the Head of State and therefore the chief public representative (or symbol) of the Barbadian state.
CaribDigita > Not true. Don't forget Queen Elizabeth II is a shared queen which can confuse a lot of people sometimes. Remember she's only 1/16th the Queen of Barbados. Any country that has her as their "Head of State" can give her certain powers or diminish them under their constitution. While one so called "realm" may pass have (or pass) a provision granting her certain powers a totally different realms' constitution may not include provisions for or recognize. Similarly I suspect that if another realm grants her a "Royal anthem" that shouldn't necc. translate to her having a "royal anthems" in all of the other countries.
Are we to then assume to that the Royal Barbados Police Force belongs to the Queen and all references to it should be in the article on the Queen? And which rule in Wikipedia says that certain information must only be displayed in one particular article?
CaribDigita > About the RBPF: what does that have to do with adding an anthem which isn't recognized under Barbados law, to a Barbados article? I merely said the Royal Anthem should perhaps stay in the queen's article because it belongs with her. Her British song covers her role, and her provisions under the British government system. I could just as easily say to you name where in Barbados society that it says that anything she is granted in another realm automatically means she is granted the same in Barbados.
You say that Barbados has no "royal anthem", but that would only be correct if Barbados were not in fact a realm/kingdom (which it is). As I also pointed out, all the symbols of a country are not found in its constitution. I'm pretty sure that the details and designs (or even the mandated existence) of Barbados' national currency, the Barbadian dollar are not found in the Constitution.
CaribDigita > Welp. Here's the constitution and the official code om Etiquette for official national symbols and emblems again the "royal anthem" is also not taught in schools. Page 4 Money is covered because Barbados played around with having its own money at the time of independence. Also the Queen is not shown on Barbados' money incase you were wondering.
The national anthem, national motto, national flower, national coat of arms, etc...absolutely none of these are to be found in the Barbadian Constitution. That document simply outlines how the State functions (government) and how the State relates to its citizens (rights, elections, etc.). At any rate I was simply following the form seen in the pages for Canada, Australia, Denmark etc. and on none of these pages have I seen any discussion to the effect that the royal anthem only belongs on the page about the monarch.
CaribDigita > I have not read the constitutions or various acts of parliament governing the OECS states in the Caribbean and their national emblems so I let it go. Also whenever I try to work on too many articles at once all of my hard work gets voted off for deletion as half-finished work in small countries that I guess other's feel don't matter. So I now pretty much only focus on Barbados and occationally other Caribbean islands when I can. As far as never being discussed. That doesn't mean anything, 'Country Infoboxes' were voted off just last month and they've been around for a long time.
The only other comparable example was in the page for St. Vincent, where the reason given by one user called T-rex was that St. Vincent was not in the Commonwealth (which shows that he/she is not well informed about St. Vincent at all).
CaribDigita > Again, the sneaky addition of something to a bunch of articles does not denote a concensus. If you do anything on Wikipedia it can be challenged if it is wrong or out of place.
Also, royal anthems are the songs of the national head of state, not the individual fulfilling that role, so in that respect the royal anthem is just as rightly placed in the article about the nation than in the article about the individual who is currently head of state, since royal anthems are not specific to any one individual (except insofar as the one for the Commonwealth realms is gender specific), but is specific to the institution of the monarchy. In that case the song would best be served on a page entitled "Monarchy of Barbados" or "Heads of State of Barbados" since when Queen Elizabeth II dies as she surely must the song will continue to be used for all her successors whenever they are present at any function in any state of which they are King or Queen. In contrast, the Queen's personal standard will not be used by her successors since it is only meant for her, just as how the personal coat of arms of Canadian Governor Generals are only used by those individuals and are not transferred or used by their successors.72.27.87.249 00:45, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
CaribDigita > Again a royal anthem would be if a country decides to officially confer upon their Monarch an anthem. Just because for example Canada passes in parliament or another commonwealth realm pass an act to recognise the Queen's song doesn't mean that it become defacto in all other states. Those countries would have to recognise the order themselves. The Barbados constitution recognises the British Queen as their monarch, and her heirs so that is a whole different matter. There's nothing in Barbados however that says just because Queen elizabeth has an officially recognised song in the United Kingdom that it become's the island's official song. I think it is out of place. CaribDigita 02:19, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
It's pretty simple really - everything in an article needs to be verifiable. Is there a reliable source that says that God Save the Queen has official standing in Barbados? If not, it doesn't belong in the article. Guettarda 02:37, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


Queen Elizabeth II is 1/16th the Queen of Barbados? Where did you get that idea from?

CaribDigita: > Q.E II is the Head of State/Queen of:

Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and The Grenadines, the Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, and the United Kingdom.

All of the other countries in the Commonwealth of Nations have their own head of states which more than likely would be covered under their own constitutions. Barbados shares the Queen with the rest of those nations ("biologically") yes. This means the Queen and her representatives have different roles and different functions as governed by the constitutions in each and every one of those nations.

Okay, firstly, the Queen of Barbados and the Queen of Canada are separate legal persons. Anything Queen Elizabeth II does as Queen of Canada has absolutely no impact on Barbados (e.g. giving Royal Assent to the 1982 Canada Act). Likewise the Crown in Barbados and the Crown in Australia are separate legal entities (the Crown being the legal authority of the government and also the office of the Queen and a symbol of her reign).She is not 1/16th the Queen of Barbados (otherwise please name the other 15 sovereigns of Barbados' "sedecarchy" (for 16 rulers just as monarchy is for 1) since that is the only way there can be a person who shares the reign of Barbados). Queen Elizabeth II may be the same (biological) person but the separate constitutions of all the Realms creates separate legal frameworks around her (and her successors). Please read the Crown, the section on the evolution of the British monarchy into the separate monarchies for each Realm in theBritish monarchy article (note what the constitutional lawyer says), Development of shared monarchy, Style of the British Sovereign (from 1922 onwards), Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act 1927 and also the various discussions (probably in the archives) in these articles. Overall, whilst "shared" in a manner of speaking, she is not divided.

CaribDigita: > Correct - I was merely trying to stress the point that just because one nation may grant the Queen a "Royal anthem" it does not equate to all other nations forcefully having to adopt that same song as their own national emblem or symbol.

Also any country on earth with a "Head of State" can give said head of state certain powers or diminish them under their constitution (just look at Nepal recently). You state that While one so called "realm" may pass have or pass a provision granting her certain powers a totally different realms' constitution may not include provisions for or recognize. This reflects her separate constitutional roles. The Royal anthem is not granted and does not have to be spelled out in a law. God Saves the Queen (or King) is essentially the royal anthem for the Crown and not just the separate legal entities of the Queen of the United Kingdom or the Queen of Tuvalu. It is true that New Zealand has God Save the Queen as an additional national anthem and that this does not automatically make the song the national anthems of all the other Realms, but that does not change it status as the royal anthem (the two being different with royal anthems being, of course, unique to monarchies).

My point about the RBPF is that its very name shows that a royal anthem can actually be placed in an article about Barbados and was also to show that Barbados is actually a Realm. As for "being recognized by law" I already pointed out that not every little detail is covered in a written constitution (some things are simply put down to tradition).

Hmmm... "Welp.". I really hope you weren't trying to spell "Whelp" (which is what you would be if you were trying - I've never called you a name so I don't expect you to start, if the tone is heated I apologize for that, but no name calling).

CaribDigita > That should have been "Well". My buddies and I have "welp" in our instant messenger lingo which I was unaware of my typing it here.

I'll ask you again to please point out exactly in the Constitution you can find anything on any one of the following: The Barbadian national anthem, national flower, national flag, national pledge, Barbadian dollar, Queen's personal standard, Governor General's flag, national motto, etc. None of these are in the Barbados constitution (although the Irish constitution does outline its national flag), thus again proving my point that not everything is written in the Constitution of Barbados. I don't have to wonder if the Queen is shown on Barbados' money. She doesn't have to be shown. She is not shown on Jamaica's money and is only shown on a few bills and coins in Australia and Canada's money. Turks and Caicos and the British Virgin Islands use US dollars and thus they never see her face on money.

CaribDigita > I mentioned that because IP# 72.xxx.xxx.xxx and some others seem to be overly fond of the queen rushing to plaster her all over every article without finding out exactly the Queen's role in any given country. I mean realistically she's the head of state, she has a representative in the nation's she's in- and does pretty much nothing in many of those countries. That, makes her only as importaint as the role she plays under the constitution of those nations. She is merely a tradition at this point.

Oddly enough, she is shown on the money used by Dominica, even though that country is a republic (of course, that is because Dominica is in a currency union with other countries that have used her face on the money since before Dominica's independence).

CaribDigita > "French Dominica" (which is a republic but shouldn't be confused with "Spanish Dominica") is in a monetary union with other Caribbean territories and commonwealth reals which have ties to the Queen. It may not have been their first choice to have the British Queen on their money since they have their own Head of State.

I don't understand something though. You say that you have "never read the Constitutions or various acts of parliaments governing the OECS states in the Caribbean".... but you distinctly pointed me to the Barbados constitution in the first revert edit summary? Well, I'm not sure how the OECS fit into all of this since Barbados is not in the OECS (but Commonwealth Caribbean constitution are for the most part fairly similar anyway).

CaribDigita > Assuming so? They aren't all cookie cutter prints actually. The Barbados constitution is quite distinct based on Barbados' own unique history. Both- such as formerly being the seat of government for many of the OECS countries all the way back to a number special agreements with Britain like the "Treaty of Oistins" for example. To further prove the point there have also been several rulings in the Caribbean by the British Privy council that overturned rulings in all of the OECS countries, and Jamaica and based on the same ruling has no bearing in Barbados, Trinidad and Tobago or Guyana. Rulings that come to mind? Capital punishment, the right to leave the Privy Council and join the Caribbean Court of Justice without a referendum etc.

I can fully appreciate your dispair when you put in a lot of hard work and then it gets deleted or voted off. I mean, just look on the list of national constitution in wikipedia and in wikisource. I've noticed that not a single Commonwealth Caribbean constitution is there, yet they have just about every American constitution imaginable, plus all the documents related to the Australian, Canadian, British, New Zealand, German, Soviet, etc. constitutions. Just goes to show your right that people care less about those countries. I even remember recently having to put the Barbadian, Maltese, Malaysian and Indian nationality laws in the British and Commowealth Citizenship template and adding the Governor-General of the West Indies Federation to the Governor-General template and having to merge the two articles on CXC (which both amazingly contained different information). I take your point that what one Realm does for tradition or protocol/official procedure is not necessarily the same in others and at any rate, since it is not going to be as simple as finding an official document from Barbados about God Save the Queen (since tradition is not necessarily written down), then I won't press the issue. Having brought up the general neglect to smaller countries in Wikipedia, might you perhaps be interested in doing the Barbadian constitution in Wikisource and maybe creating a corresponding article here in Wikipedia?

CaribDigita > I have to get a new contact with the Barbados government. Some of the Barbados stuff online on the Government sites are out of date for example the Constitution's of Barbados on the web currently still-- list "British Privy Council" and the Queens role in the Judiciary which I suspect was curtailed by Barbados leaving the Privy Council and already joining the Caribbean Court of Justice along with Guyana thus far.

It shouldn't be too hard since the constitution can be found on a number of websites (and since Wikisource has to reproduce it exactly as how it appears) it would be a simple matter of just copying, pasteing and editing the text to conform to the Wikisource format. And if you're really interested (and if Guettarda is too) I could help you with the Constitution for the Federation of the West Indies (I have access to a copy in the library - but it's awfully long though). 72.27.87.249 07:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I was asked to have a look at this discussion and weigh in on a Royal Anthem in Barbados. The short answer is: I don't know. I can, however, say that God Save the Queen is not the personal song of Elizabeth II, it is indeed a Royal Anthem, meaning it continues on for sovereign after sovereign, adapting to suit the gender of the monarch. Nor is the tune strictly a "British" song - it may have originated there, but, as the article on God Save the Queen states, it has been adopted by many other countries (even non-Commonwealth ones) as their own Royal Anthem.
In the case of the UK it has also become the de facto national anthem, just as the Royal Union flag (once a personal flag of the sovereign) has now become the UK's national flag - all through convention, never by any statute law. In Canada and Australia God Save the Queen is the Royal Anthem, in Canada merely by convention, and in Australia by a Royal Proclamation. In New Zealand it is actually officially one of two national anthems. So, clearly, the song is used independently in each Realm for the Queen in her capactiy as Monarch specifically of that Realm.
So, if Barbados does have God Save the Queen as a royal anthem (it certainly isn't the national one), it is only by Barbados' own will. However, it seems from the Barbados government website that the song isn't an official state one at all - the official Code of Etiquette states that for the Queen, any members of the Royal Family, or the Governor General, the national anthem is to be played, not God Save the Queen. --gbambino 16:03, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WILDLIFE

I am shocked at the nonsense written on the wildlife of Barbados. The list is full of inaccuracies. Here is an attempt at clarification

   * Ocelots (completely false not found in Barbados. I don’t believe it ever was!)
   * Green Parrot (False - There was reportedly a species of Amazon endemic to Barbados (now extinct!))
   * Turtles (True– various species of Marine Turtles )
   * Tree Snakes (False! There is a native GRASS snake)
   * Iguanas (False! Iguanas are extinct in Barbados)
   * Lizards (True – Green Anoles and Geckos )
   * Barbados Green Monkey (True – Vervet monkey Introduced from Africa) 
   * Hummingbird (Recently Introduced) (hummingbirds are present, THEY ARE A NATIVE SPECIES. NOT INTRODUCED!)
   * Pelicans (Brown Pelicans were actually extirpated from the country)
   * Bottlenosed Dolphins (Possible in coastal waters)
   * Mongoose (True)
   * Canaries (FALSE – Canaries generally refer to domesticated cage birds. I presume the author is referring to the Grassland Yellow finch (Sicalis luteola)
  • Basking Shark (possible in coastal waters)

True. Most of Blue102's edits here are suspicious. Guettarda 13:59, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added a link to local tennis centre

I hope noone minds but I added a link to my local tennis centre on Barbados.

[edit] Local legends, Folklore and tales

I think its time we start making pages about some of the things we have heard when we were children, tales like "The Steel Donkey", duppies (ghosts) and various other topics which are nowhere to see seen on the net no matter what search engine you type it in online, does anybody else agree with me? - RVDDP2501 18:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. As an American who lived in Barbados for 5 years, I have heard of many of those stories. However finding citation to mark from online would be difficult and would be best left to contestation only from fellow Bajans. I believe the same would go for a varied list of the Bajan idioms. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Metamorphousthe (talk • contribs) 14:03, 28 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

There is now a proposed WikiProject for the Caribbean area, including Barbados, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Caribbean. Interested parties should add their names there so we can determine if there is enough interest to start such a project in earnest. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV

Now I'm no expert on Barbados.. But surely this is a little POV:

From 1958 to 1962, Barbados was one of the ten members of the West Indies Federation, an organisation doomed by nationalistic attitude and by the fact that its members, as colonies of Britain, held limited legislative power. Adams' leadership of the Federation (he served as its first and only "Prime Minister"), his failed attempts to form similar unions, and his continued defence of the monarchy demonstrated that he was no longer in touch with the needs of his country. Errol Walton Barrow, a fervent reformer, was to become the new people's advocate. Barrow had left the BLP and formed the Democratic Labour Party as a liberal alternative to Adams' conservative government. To this day, Barrow remains a beloved hero in the eyes of Barbadians, as it was he who instituted many of the reforms and programs currently in place, including free education for all Barbadians, regardless of class or colour, and the School Meals system. By 1961, Barrow had replaced Adams as Premier and the DLP controlled the government.

TastyCakes 18:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

You may be correct, to a certain extent, but the text is accurate none-the-less. - SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) 13:19, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
It is spot on... After the federation collapsed and Grantly Adams returned from the Federal Government of the West Indies. Barrow took his place and Barrow did reform Barbados mostly to what it is today. The government of today is still pressed NOT to really overturn anything Barrow put in place including free schooling for Barbadian at all educational levels. CaribDigita 14:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Parishes

I suggest that local Bajans start expanding the Parishes pages so that we have more information. As a foreigner I can only go from what I remember having only lived there (in southeast St. Philip) for five years.

I had done quite a few of them... St. Lucy, St. Peter, St. Andrew, St. James etc. But I've held off because people across wikipedia were voting off Caribbean articles for deletion. I'll prossibly start back a few months down the road if I see the situation stabilize. But in the meantime I need to focus on my studying and not waste time on this if it is going to come to naught anyways. CaribDigita 14:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] EMIGRATION TO THE USA

You may be interested to know that - thanks to the fact that both the Castle Garden Immigration Station records and the Ellis Island Immigration Station Records are now generally available on-line - it is now possible to do something more in depth on this subject. I know this because I found my maternal family records on the Ellis island site, and they are listed, along with the ship they came over on, the port they left from, the date of arrival, and their marital status. - SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) 13:14, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Just curious why this is in the Barbados page Metamorphousthe 01:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barbados Independent Travel Guide

If you are looking for a travel guide to help you make the most of your vist to Barbados. Check out http://www.accessbarbados.com it offers accommodation, car hire, excursions, restaurants, where to party and more. It links you directly to the business owner so you can book direct and save. No referral commisions are taken.

[edit] Steel donkey

--dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu 13:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC) What is the folklore about the steel donkey?...

[edit] GAY?

What is meant by the terms GAY men and cocky? Is this appropriate?

[edit] Coat of Arms -- Barbados -- Government says it is a dolphin. Why?

Source by the Government of Barbados saying the Flying Fish looking animal is a dolphin. http://www.barbados.gov.bb/bdoscoatarms.htm

CaribDigita 00:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I propose a small clean up of this article.

I'm proposing to clean up this article slightly. The length is getting longer and longer with a larger and larger mishmash of information that doesn't actually flow any longer. Plus there's some banners asking for things like a clean up of the Trivia section and so on. I think a nice job has been done on the Bermuda article and I propose a beautification on this one as well. I also have a bunch of photos around Barbados that I'm proposing to release onto Wiki-commons as well. The history section of Barbados article could also stand a bit of trim and neatly packing away the really lengthy explanations into the Barbados History article as well. Also there's been some haphazard changing of information on here and like right now for example there's scattered broken Javascript/Wikiscripting or whatever on the page that needs cleaning up or fixing (for whatever it belongs to).CaribDigita 22:10, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

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