User talk:Bandurist

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[edit] Welcome

Hello, Bandurist, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

If you are interested in Ukraine-related themes, you may want to check out the Ukraine Portal, particularly the Portal:Ukraine/New article announcements and Portal:Ukraine/Ukraine-related Wikipedia notice board. The New article announcements board is probably the most important and the most attended one. Please don't forget to anounce there the new articles you create. Adding both boards to your watchlist is probably a good idea.

Finally, in case you are interested, similar boards exist at Russia portal as many editors contribute to topics related to both countries. The respective boards there are: Portal:Russia/New article announcements and Portal:Russia/Russia-related Wikipedia notice board. Of course there are also many other portals at Wikipedia or you may just get right into editing.

Again, welcome!--Irpen 06:08, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Good work, Вікторе! --Lute88 01:44, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Dear Bandurist! Thanks a lot for all your help. Please WP:be bold in making corrections and improvements, especially in topics where you are specialist. One word of caution though, please be a little careful with creating of categories and stub templates and in the beginning better ask for advise. The reasons for that may be a little to long to explain, but, it all comes down, to the difficulty to correct and undo a mistake in the cat creation. Thanks again for your work. Also you may want to check out the Blind musicians article. Thanks, --Irpen 06:08, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks. I have been primarilly working in the Ukrainian vesion of the Wikipedia, basically putting in all the information I have aquired for my doctorate, and am now porting over most of it into the English version. Bit by bit. Thanks for the support and advice. I really am amazed by the whole project.Bandurist 15:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A note of thanks

		The Exceptional Newcomer Award
		For enthusiasm, can-do attitude, and a slew of articles related to Kobzarstvo, awarded on 7th of December, 2006 --Riurik

		Двічі
		Came here for the very same reason but Riurik beat me to it. Very well, then, I am happy to double the award :). Please keep up the great work! -Irpen 05:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On December 7, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ostap Veresai, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Hello Bandurist, and thankyou for creating this article. You are making an excellent start to your wikipedia career. Keep up the great work on Ukrainian coverage - happy editing, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:05, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AfD Nomination: Volodymyr Bozhyk

I've nominated the article Volodymyr Bozhyk for deletion under the Articles for deletion process. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Volodymyr Bozhyk. Don't forget to add four tildes (~~~~) at the end of each of your comments to sign them. You are free to edit the content of Volodymyr Bozhyk during the discussion, but please do not remove the "Articles for Deletion" template (the box at the top). Doing so will not end the discussion. Aecis ^{Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.} 18:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] <First name> <Last name>

Hi! I noticed, you recently renamed articles about Ukrainian bandurists, listing surnames first. For example, you moved, Andriy Omelchenko to Omelchenko Andriy, etc. [1]. While in Ukrainian language it's common to give the family name first, in English it's common to proceed the other way around, that is listing the first name, following by the last name. For example Bill Clinton, Albert Einstein, William Shakespeare, etc. Please see the wikipedia naming convention: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people). Thanks, KPbIC 01:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

ОК. Thanks. I will not continue changing and will change those that have been changed back.

Bandurist 17:01, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] З Різдвом Христовим і з Новим Роком!

DDima presents to you this wonderful Christmas tree of Kiev (Kyiv) and wishes you an upcoming Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

---

З Різдвом Христовим і з Новим Роком! —dima/s-ko/ 16:16, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kiev/Kyiv

Please note that WP:NC(UE) states that the English version of the name should be used in preference over other names. Hence whilst its not incorrect to use Kyiv, it is highly recommended that its use be avoided, and certainly when changed to Kiev not reverted. However doing the opposite is violating a wiki guideline, so I hope you would not be offended that I reverted your edit to Babi Yar (though kept other corrections). Same goes for Kiev Bandurist Capella and Kiev academic style as article titles should definitely follow the policy. If you disagree with me, then please raise it at Talk:Kiev. Please don't take this personal, but the Kiev/Kyiv issue is certainly not new, and I don't blame anyone for disagreeing with me, but it received quite a bit of discussion and the reasons for Kiev are on the talk page of the city. --Kuban Cossack 22:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Greetings. A far as I know the current English version for the Ukrainian Capital is Kyiv. Kiev is the Russian transcription and is being phased out. I would like that reflected in the articles that I have done. I will refrain from changing Kiev to Kyiv, but I would appreciate not having Kyiv changed to Kiev in my articles.

By the way, I spent a couple of weeks in Krasnodar touring with the Kuban Kozak Choir, Viktor Zakharkchenko and Yuri Bulavin performing in a number of Stanytsias, festivals and on television in Krasnodar. How come you don't speak Ukrainian. I heard more Ukrainian in the Kuban than in Kyiv in 1991. Bandurist 05:12, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Well its true that our balachka is a hybrid between 17th century Malorossian and modern Russian. However its a dialect with no grammatical structure and actually if you listned closely would contain words that are not even found in Russian or Ukrainian, particulary amongst those living in the Karachay-Cherkessia (the north - is Cossack homeland). I am from Central Kuban west of Kransnodar (we call it Катькодар). However politics seem to influence the choice, and I might dissapoint you, but we Cossacks are still loyal to the Pereyaslav Treaty that our ancestors signed more than 350 years ago. And we are proud of it. So if Ukraine is going to turn its back on us, well what can I say so be it, but in the current political spectrum, we are less likely to give an oath of eternal loyalty to Ukraine than Lviv will to Moscow... I for one am proud to be born Russian (although I must stress that we Cossacks:Kuban, Don, Terek have never actually considered ourselves ethnically Great Russians, but instead consider ourselves as a separate Ruthenian entity - Cossacks (Казаки). I will not blame you, but I think that its wrong to assume that there are only three East-Slavic super ethnicities, instead there are a dozen of them, and Great, Small and White Ruthenians only form the largest groups, in addition there are Pomorians, Lipovians, Cossacks, Rusyns and so on... As for the genetic composition...my mother is from Polotsk, and combine with all the war brides that were brought back, plus interhost marriages... ethnically the Cossack population of Cuban is a Kasha...but spiritually...we made up the Emperor's private guard and are now the largest part of the Presidential Guard in the Kremlin... that says something about our loyalty... In the Second World War, whilst some of our Don brothers chose to collaborate, we fought for our motherland here is my grandfather third row fourth from the left at the famous victory parade in 1945, (actually he can play a Bandura at 82 years of age).

Now then wrt to Kiev/Kyiv then really its a parrallel to Moscow/Moskva. The Russian name of the city would be Kiyev or Kijev based on the transliteration, and nobody is using that one anywhere. Think of it as Dnieper river. In Russian its Dnepr in Ukrainian its Dnipro... in English its Dnieper. Hence we use that throughout. Same with Kiev/Kiyev/Kyiv. Only the first one is an English word, and unfortunately WP:NC(UE) leaves little space for the alternative names. Why? Because think about the audience reading wikipedia, the majority of whom are only familiar with the words they see, and you cannot deny that in the course of 15 years there is a still an absoloute majority of people using Kiev over all other versions and its irrelelvant if Kiev is derived from Kiyev or not. I mean I am not offended if someone calls my capital Moscow and I don't even know on what language was that based on.

Anyway good job on the bandura related, but don't get too picky with such minor tweaks. I myself am into User:Kuban kazak/Metro Metro. Like Vyrlytsia or Zoloti Vorota. --Kuban Cossack 18:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words but I disagree regarding the use of Kyiv.

• With regard to a comparison with say words Moskva, Varshava, Roma, Praha - English doesn't like the a ending and tends to go for a closed syllable ending for the names of Cities.
• Kyiv come from Kiy - the apparent founder of Kyiv. The -iv ending is the Ukrainian pronounciation of the yat'. Thus we have Chernihiv, Lviv, Mykolayiv, Zhdaniv. Once upon a time Ukraine was part of the Russian empire. It made sense to call it Kiev then, however Ukraine today is an independant country and it is cementing its own traditions and changing the legacy of the past to refelct its own perceptions. It is interesting that the Ukrainian governement has chosen that it prefers the spelling of Kyiv in English and the fact that the US government has also chosen this particular spelling. I think that Wikipedia should follow suite and should not be stuck in the past.
• As time is progressing more and more sites are choosing the Ukrainian transliteration rather than the Russian one.

• www.kyivpost.com
• www.ves-kyiv.com.ua
• www.kyiv-obl.gov.ua

catalog.kyiv.ru/ua/categ-Services (even in Russia)

• kyiv.osp-ua.info/index.php
• www.ukraine.org/VKyiv/
• www.kyiv.in.ua

This didn't exist before and it is a growing trend.

Anyway - I will be posting a whole slew of article on the bandura in the Kuban and in general and a mass of photographs. Hope you will enjoy the articles. Have you read the Minister and the Massacres by N. Tolstoy? 20:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Well growing or not is something that will not influence wikipedia. What does influence wikipedia is that both CNN and BBC use Kiev, and a lot more people in the English speaking world read those than US or UK state let alone Ukrainian state publications (in English)... just google the two names against each other and you have a 34 million vs. 5 million preference of Kiev over Kyiv. And its not that the five million is insignificant... it's the fact that 34 million hits is a LOT! Here is a recent discussion [2] and Irpen fully summarises it.

As for historical versions, then prior to 1990s Kyiv was not known anywhere outside Ukraine and its diaspora...And as for history its best not to even dive into there. We have Second Battle of Kharkov and the city is Kharkiv; Battle of Lwów (1918) and the Lvov-Sandomierz Offensive and the modern city is called Lviv. We have the FC Dynamo Kyiv and the city is called Kiev.

I have not read the book, on the contrary I despise historical literature, particulary on controversial matters, because in my opinion its impossible to write history with no bias, sad but true. Since people will simply give you the sources and refrences taht they want you to believe. On the other hand I love Gumelyov because instead of following the boring historian approach of focusing on a narrow event he launches into everything and I must say I find his theory on "passionarity" convincing. As for other literature then its classical Russian:Leo Tolstoy, Bulgakov...its something you can read over and over again and still each time find it amazing and wonderful... --Kuban Cossack 21:36, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Allow me to briefly chime in. The issue has indeed been discussed to death. I would simply like to give you some links. Here is one of the discussions from over a year ago. Here is the most recent one. Much of what happened in between can be found at Talk:Kiev and its archives.

Now, to a more interesting things, I think you may find this discussion interesting. It took place long before you came here and I never returned to the subject or the article.

Best New Year wishes to you and let this year be productive for your off- and on-Wikipedia activity. --Irpen 05:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Great article writing, Bandurist!

I notice a huge amount of content you are adding to Wikipedia and would like to thank you for that. Please keep up the good work.

As a word of advice, please always list your sources you use in articles. Also, no need to duplicate the messages you leave at article's talk at other people's talk pages. Most people watchlist the talk pages of the articles they edited. In case you want to be sure the particular user reads your talk page entry, just leave a note pointing towards the talk page. Thanks again and always feel free to ask if you have any questions. --Irpen 02:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Pryvit - Христос Рождається. Thanks for your help and encouragement. I have spent most of the time building up http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%96%D1%8F:%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE uk:Кобзарство, uk:Бандуристи sites, basically with the dictionary of Kobzarstvo I have been putting together for the past 25 years. I find the Ukrainian site easier to manage and more tolerant (although not so initially). Most of my posts in the english Wiki have disappeared unfortunately. Currently I occasionally make an English translation of one of my articles or materials, but I do find it frustrating with some of the changes that seem to immediately happen like changes in city transcriptions etc. But such is life. Still have a lot to do. I am going through my whole library checking and reviewing materials. I am also going through my photo and postcard collection and posting them in the commons and will later go through my sound recording collection and video collection. --Bandurist 15:03, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind my attempts at clean-up, and fitting the articles you write into more standard formats. The transcription issues are hot-button, and will most likely remain so with the diverse views present at WP. But I hope they don't discourage you with any further articles you wish to write. Христос Рождається, and Смачного!--tufkaa 17:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

It's a learning experience. I'm just sitting on my own bandura stuff, and going over and correcting the materials over and over again and gradually learning all the tools. Everyday something new is learned. The transcription thing is a bit of a shocker but I'll get over it. Some people are very passionate about it. I guess the most important thing is to get the information together and out there. Христос Рождається. --Bandurist 18:00, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Well make sure you learn how to do correct citations and refrences as well. Just take a look at any article (e.g. Bridges in Kiev)--Kuban Cossack 18:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

It's a learning experience. Hopefully my learning curve will be steep enough to keep people happy. And it is an interesting community - People I may have never gotten around to meeting. I will study the references and citations and gradually intergrate them into the articles. Thanks. --Bandurist 19:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Post stamps

Dobroho dnja! I just uploaded 3 interesting post stamps in wikimedia commons. You may find them useful for your articles. Please use them if so: [3] [4] [5]. Also, you may know more about the stamps than me (they seem to be edited in Canada) if so, please add to the info on files.--Bryndza 18:34, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi. The stamps were published by the Ukrainian Bandurist Chorus in Detroit USA bu Peter Honcharenko. They were used as a method of fund raising. He would send out small sheets of the stamps each year and received $5 - $? as adonation for the group. Their were a couple of hundred types of stamps issued.--01:44, 6 February 2007 (UTC)Bandurist

Thank you, I started to find more information on them too. [6] Inique things!--Bryndza 12:35, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I have pages of them. I used to live in the Capella building when I first moved to the United States and they had hundreds of different types of stamps and stickers. Bandurist 17:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)