Talk:Banknotes of the pound sterling

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[edit] Scottish Notes in England

"the Bank of Scotland (generally accepted throughout the UK);
the Royal Bank of Scotland (generally accepted throughout the UK);
the Clydesdale Bank (generally accepted throughout the UK);"

Actually I'm not certain that Scottish notes are widely accepted south of the border. I certainly haven't seen any in circulation in southern England, although if I was passed one and the stores didn't take it I could always change it at a bank. Lee M 04:14, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

It depends how far from the border you go, generally. Here in Cheshire while they're not common they can certainly be found. Arwel 04:39, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Legally they are accepted throughout the UK although outside the border area & London a lot of shop assistants aren't sure about them (pleanty of times they've had to check with a supervisor before realising that they are ok to accept), but that is just unfamiliarity with the notes as English banks tend to send them back up to Scotland when they get them, so they never get a chance to circulate. AllanHainey 15:54, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I think the matter depends on a three-part distinction: 1) notes that must be accepted (legal tender), 2) notes that legally are acceptable, ie that can either be accepted or rejected and 3) notes which are unacceptable, ie that legally must be rejected (counterfeit, foreign currency in places where only banks may convert them into national currency).
It seems that Scottish notes are certainly not category 1 in England but seem to be category 2: the holder cannot legally require others to accept them as payment although they are certainly free to do so, if they choose. However, my experience in London was that many people tried to treat them as category 3 and said flat out that they could not accept them since they were Scottish pounds which weren't money in England. I discovered that with some persistence, I was often able to get peoples in Boots or other chains to accept them, but sometimes they wouldn't budge. The article as it's now written might be confusing for those who aren't familiar with the exact meaning of "legal tender", as I wasn't until a few minutes ago. Saying the notes "are not legal tender in England", while apparently correct, might mislead readers into thinking that use of them as a medium of payment is illegal, category 3, when it fact it's category 2.
These experiences are from 1984 to 2000 and perhaps don't apply now, but I expect they do. Interlingua talk email 16:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Scottish notes are category 1, but are through ignorance often considered category 2. At least this is an improvement on being considered category 3, a condition formerly common in my own recollection.
Nuttyskin 19:22, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
No, no, NO. How many times must it be said? SCOTTISH BANKNOTES ARE NOT LEGAL TENDER ANYWHERE. The only notes which are legal tender in England are those of the Bank of England. "Legal tender" has a very precise meaning which is not what most people think it is – read the article on legal tender which is a good explanation of what it means. In Scotland they are promissory notes, not legal tender; neither are English notes legal tender in Scotland. Acceptability of notes by the public is not the same thing as legal tender. -- Arwel (talk) 20:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Relationship between the banks

It would be nice for us foreigners to have further discussion on the page about what the relationship between all the banks are, and why there are many which can issue currency. Where I'm from (USA), only the lead government bank can issue currency. Anonymous, 22 Mar 2004

Actually, that's not true per se - all of the Federal Reserve Banks print and issue the notes (A-L, IIRC), but there is much more difference between the British issuing banks' notes. I assume the reason is the bloody Celts being difficult oppressed peoples, as ever (;-)). Not my specialised field, however.
James F. (talk) 16:31, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Actually there's a fair bit of the history involved on the individual issuing banks' linked pages, especially about Sir Walter Scott retaining the right of Scottish banks to issue their own notes. Arwel 20:07, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Northern Irish notes

Are we sure that Northern Irish notes are only accepted in Northern Ireland and Scotland? I recently spent one in England no problem. I received a £5 Bank of Ireland note in change from the Upper Crust at Derby train station and spent it a few minutes later in the WH Smith over the other side. When I was at Smith's the manager was training a sales assistant and he was telling her that all English, Scottish and Northern Irish currency is legal tender. Basically, no one battered an eye-lid when I spent the Northern Irish note. It was no more unusual than spending a Scottish one.

I think the point it's trying to make is that NI notes are very rarely seen in England and thus much less likely to be accepted, simply because people are unfamiliar with them. Actually your Smith's manager is wrong about legal tender -- Scottish notes are not legal tender anywhere, not even in Scotland, and English notes (other than the now non-existent £1) are not legal tender in Scotland either; there's a difference between "legal tender" and "commonly accepted" - anything you can get someone else to accept is good money! -- Arwel 17:41, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Page move?

This page covers Northern Irish banknotes, and Northern Ireland is not and never has been in Britain. The article should be at United Kingdom banknotes, as it also covers Guernsey and Jersey, which also aren't in Britain. Kiand 14:40, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

On the other hand, Guernsey and Jersey are British, but are not in the United Kingdom. Man vyi 17:23, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Its impossible to be in Great Britain but not in the UK, as the UK is defined as the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Nothern Ireland". Either way, they're both small and relatively insignificant compared to Northern Ireland (1,500,000 people), which is definitively not in Great Britain. Kiand 20:57, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
But it is possible to be British but not in the UK (as are the Isle of Man and Channel Islands). The title of the article is British banknotes rather than Banknotes of Great Britain - there is a difference. How about British and UK banknotes? Man vyi 21:46, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Argh! No, please don't revisit the old "what is 'British'?" argument, which I can't recall where it was last fought over else I'd refer you there. Just read "British" as being the adjective referring to the sterling area. -- Arwel 16:54, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
So move them to Sterling Banknotes then. British is completely wrong, argument or not. Kiand 22:44, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
OK, done. Mauls 17:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Is there any reason there's picture upon picture of Scottish and Irish notes, but not one of the actual proper British / English / English and Welsh notes, whatever you want to call them.

And Northern Ireland is indeed in Britain. Britain is the British Isles. Northern Ireland is not in Great Britain, which is the big island (where England, Wales and Scotland are). Proto 13:09, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, the Bank of England objected to our including images of their notes. -- Arwel 14:09, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I applied to the BoE for permission to display images of their banknotes (internet/educational, as per conditions 3,4,6) and got a reply today granting consent for 12 months. I will add photos next week. --Wangi 11:41, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
Images of £10 and £20 Bank of England notes now added. Wangi 09:17, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Issuing banks list

I accept that it's a bit inefficient to say "These are recognised currency wherever, and generally accepted throughout the UK." after every other bank, but I feel that the primary purpose of that list is to show all the banks that can issue notes, and clumping them together in sentences defeats this. I've made a stepped list to try and alleviate this. --Scott Wilson 20:19, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

I like your changes. By the way, are NI notes defined as legal tender in northern ireland or a re they just "recognised currency" like in Scotland? Either way this should be included here. Grinner 09:06, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Legal tender in Scotland

There is a concept of legal tender in Scotland. When they existed, Bank of England £1 notes were legal tender. The Scottish Parliament says [1]

Under this narrow legal definition Scottish banknotes have never, even in Scotland, except for two very short periods during the two World Wars, been legal tender. Bank of England banknotes are also not legal tender in Scotland under this definition. Only coins from the Royal Mint are legal tender in Scotland and even these are subject to limitations, e.g. £1 worth of 1pcoins is legal tender but £1.01 is not. £1 and £2 coins are legal tender in Scotland to unlimited amounts. --Henrygb 09:19, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Scotland and the Euro?

If it's up to each bank to print its own money - is there any law which would forbid the banks of scotland converting to the Euro, even if the rest of the UK does not? Seabhcán 11:27, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Unless there was a law which specifically forbade it, no, though I don't know if one exists that would have to be co-opted when the Euro is taken up, nor would I put it past the U.K. government to deliberately pass one when the Euro is accepted. --Scott Wilson 11:54, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Even if the Scottish banks were to do so coinage would remain in sterling, making a change of banknotes rather unlikely. Grinner 13:14, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Am I right that all British coins, including the ones with a scottish design, are made by the Royal Mint? Seabhcán 13:23, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes. The Welsh, Scottish and NI "versions" of the pound coin all circulate completly UK-wide (I don't even think the mint bother to introduce to the appropriate country first). All other coins are the same UK-wide. Grinner 13:32, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Scottish banks couldn't ever issue Euros without the UK (or at least an independant Scottish government) converting their currency to the Euro, simply because the European Central Bank doesn't let non-national banks (or issuing authorities) issue Euros & certainly wouldn't do so if the government hadn't joined the Euro. I suspect that even if the UK (or Scotland) joined the Euro the ECB wouldn't let them all issue individually designed Euros as it would go against their current policies AllanHainey 15:54, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish bank notes in england. English notes in Scotland etc

Accoding to the 'legal tender' page. Notes of any denomination are not actually 'legal tender' in the UK - nor do they need to be 'legal tender' for the purposes which they are employed. Only £1 and £2 coins are legal tender for any transaction in England. 82.153.170.21 15:15, 2 December 2005 (UTC)LFG

I wish people would read the entire article before grabbing the wrong end of the stick. £1 and £2 coins are legal tender throughout the UK, while Bank of England banknotes are legal tender in England and Wales. -- Arwel (talk) 16:18, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Right, this is the deal. All Scottish notes EXCEPT the £1 note are all legal tender of the UK. There is an issue of using them in england!. Although its perfectly legal and allowed, alot of people down england havent actually seen them before and therefore are not sure about what they are!. They may be reluctant to take them on this basis. The Royal Bank of Scotland notes however are a kind of different story. Being the 4th biggest bank in the world, the RBS notes will be well recognised down in england and will be OK. This is the general rule. English notes will all be accepted in scotland too. The scotish banks were given permission by the monarchy to print money to commemorate great scots. ie; robert burns and such like. This is the reason they exist. Identity!. For the record though all notes from all UK countries, EXCEPT the scottish £1 note, are legal tender throughout the UK.

Thanks

Get yourself to Scotland! You'll love it! The Scotsman —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.188.216.131 (talk • contribs) 2005-09-05 13:46:38.

No, this is functionally wrong. I think you may need to research what legal tender actually means - for a start, there is only limited "legal tender of the UK", and it doesn't cover banknotes! You may be a Scot, but I'm a Scot reading Stair...
The Scottish banknotes don't exist because they're Scottish; they exist because three Scottish banks have not yet ceased printing banknotes under the relevant 1840s? legislation, whereas all English banks have (the last was in ~1925-30). Shimgray 13:11, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Er no. The unsigned advice above is absolutely wrong. NO current notes are legal tender in Scotland - not Scottish, not English, and neither are Scottish or Northern Irish notes anywhere. You need to read the article on legal tender to find out exactly what that means - it does not mean that people will not accept them (and Scottish law is different from English anyway). The acceptability of unusual notes is entirely dependent on the recipient - I was in the WH Smiths at Manchester Piccadilly station a few weeks ago when the cashier skipped a note when he was getting me a fiver change because it was a Bank of Ireland one - perfectly acceptable but few people will take it in England because they're not familiar with it - I'll take any Scottish note offered, but not NI notes because they're a pain to spend. The RBS is a big bank in England but it does not issue its banknotes from its English branches. -- Arwel 13:33, 5 September 2005 (UTC)


This cannot be right, can we please get firm proof on this. How can It be that no notes are legal in Scotland?? Tosh. Why are people printing them then? How can you have illegal currency that everyone accepts including the banks. My understanding from my bank manager is that anything which reads STERLING is accepted in England/Wales. Cannot comment on Scotland/Ireland.

Again you need to READ the legal tender article. The currency isn't illegal, it just isn't legal tender. BTW, cheques are not legal tender either in general. Are you saying that banks shouldn't accept cheques because they're not legal tender? Large amounts of small legal tender notes or coins isn't legal tender in a number of countries. For example, here in NZ, 50c coins are legal tender for up to $5.00. However all banks and many stores etc will have no problem accepting 50c coins for values of $10.00 or more. Are you saying the banks and shops shouldn't do so? Again you really need to get an read the legal tender article as numerous people have been suggesting before making a fool of yourself some more. Nil Einne 20:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Million £ note

Are pictures of the £1,000,000 note availible? (Alphaboi867 07:26, 28 October 2005 (UTC))

  • You mean there actually are actual, physical English banknotes that are worth £1 million to £100 million? What if someone would just casually slip one into his wallet? Or worse, what if it were accidentally torn to pieces or burnt or something? — JIP | Talk 13:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

The £1m notes were only used for interbank transactions and were never in general circulation. I don't think they're used anymore. I'm not sure about pictures, though - a few faked up ones have been made though, jguk 18:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

We could do with a English £50 before a £1million note--Synergyplease 06:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

There already is an English £50 note. You don't see them often though, as people rarely spend that much in cash. Tourists often have them when they come over, after exchanging their home currency for them. -Anon
£50 is actually a very small amount compared with the largest notes found in some other currencies - e.g. 500 euro = £340, and 1000 Swiss francs = £430. The reason we never see them is that cash machines do not dispense them. Normally the only way to get a £50 note is from a bank cashier (unless you pay with a Scottish or Northern Irish £100 note in a shop, and get a £50 note in your change - but then the £100 note would need to come from a bank cashier). Tourists are generally the only people who get their money from a bank cashier, unless you're paying a four-figure cash deposit to secure a lease on a house, etc. Mtford 02:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
Plus alot of retailers don't accept £50 notes due to their use with money launderer's and fake notes. Gryphon5 15:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Why would you have a £1m note? Why would a bank simply not transfer or write a cashiers cheque for the sum? I think this is pure speculation since no one has proof of this and there is ZERO information on this subect. What if some rich old man who owns a nuclear powerplan run off with this trillion dollar bill to and island and... oh wait... that was the simpsons. Damn, oh well off to spend my £1m note anyone have change?

And how do you suppose that the "transfer" or "cashiers cheque" is going to be settled? At the end of the day the money has got to move from one bank's ownership to another's, to make it easier they will be cancelled against each other (ie if at the end of the day Bank A needs to send £100 to Bank B, and B £101 to A, then the only transaction required is £1 from B to A) but in aggregate these are enormous sums of money, and so the idea of using a £1m note is quite plausable. Ian3055 19:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article needs to be split up

This article needs to be split up, as the information here duplicates that outlined in individual articles such as Banknotes of England and Banknotes of Great Britain - (Aidan Work 01:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC))

No, it doesn't; those other articles need to be redirected here, as neither has its own banknotes. --Kiand 01:53, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Aidan Work. It would be better if there were separate articles for the English, Scottish, and Northern Ireland notes. The 'complicated' issue with the Scottish non-legal tender and three bank issuing system gives that issue enough substance to fill a whole article. Osgoodelawyer 17:37, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Euro

The discussion of the euro seems irrelevant to sterling banknotes - especially after the move to make the article about sterling banknotes. Man vyi 20:15, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

The Bank of England has many duties. Printing banknote is just one of them. Things about banknotes on Bank of England should be reduced to a summary, while the bulk of the information should be moved here. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 23:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Disagree. The bulk of the information on the Bank page is historical; including it here would seriously unbalance the article with regard to the amount of information shown with regard to the other note-issuing banks, where we concentrate on the current situation. -- Arwel (talk) 01:48, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey

References to the States of Jersey and States of Guernsey altered to "Bailiwick": The Bailiwicks are the crown dependencies, while the States are simply their respective legislatures 72.75.110.8 06:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New £20 Note

Both the new and old £20 notes are considered to be in use until the old one is officially withdrawn. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.150.241.204 (talk) 13:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Northern Bank pictures

Are the Northern Bank note pictures not backwards? The Purple - old, pre robbery one is shown as the 'new' one and the new, post-robbery one is shown as the 'old' one. I know blue = new because I've got a January 2005 re-issue 20 here, and its blue. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.77.181.1 (talk) 22:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

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