Talk:Ball python
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[edit] Users ArtKoen and 24.229.135.203
You have both consistently advertised on this page, and as such, I have put notices on your talk pages. Further adding of spam/advertising links to your site will result in notification of admins. Jhall1468 17:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Article Cleanup and Citations
I have cleaned up a few areas of the article, namely removing some external links (as most of the details in this links are available via the other external links and references). Those links that were removed had a primarily commercial purpose, and as such, still violate the WP:EL guidelines. Some of the references are from commercial breeders and other commercial sites, which should be altered to non-commercial sources if possible.
I have also cited the majority of this article (only one unknown remains, which I propose be removed if a source is unavailable). Please discuss any changes here PRIOR to making edits, as I feel that the article is almost at the standard it should be. Jhall1468 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Jhall1468 You've removed solid links and added commerical links yet you make reference to violations of the WP:EL guidelines? When did Graziani Reptiles and New England Reptiles stop becoming commercial? Why do you continuously edit this page and disrupt good information??? Furthermore, with all the condensing and editing, there's really nothing of substance on this page now, just a few lines of rhetoric. The list of ball python morphs have been removed. Why? Please leave well enough alone already as I'm sure there are thousands of other Wikipedia entries that you can make better use of your time with. 19 January 2007
[edit] How many times...
I've explained this already. I went through and cited all the information available on the page. Those cites included commercial breeder sites for the time being, but that is only because there isn't a wealth of information on the topic from non-commercial sources. Until then, I would rather have the article cited then leave a bunch of junk all over the place. The moment I find more reliable sources that aren't commercial, the commercial ones will be removed.
All of those articles on the page you insist stay are available elsewhere, and most of them are completely invalid and terrible sources for information. Melissa Kaplan's Care Sheet, for example, lists Ball Pythons as "happy in trees" when they are ground-dwellers, not aboreal. 3/4ths of the page is dedicated to Amazon Affiliate Links. That page is CLEARLY designed as a commercial page, and it would not particularly surprise me if you are the owner of it.
Finally, this page read like a book report, not encyclepedia entry. So I made some major changes (as did others) to bring it back to the realm of information (instead of opinion). This will be the last time I edit out that link, if you revert it again, I'll simply request arbitration, and we will end up with the same result. All of the articles listed on that page are available at their owners websites as well.
Please quit treating Wikipedia as a resource for advertising. Jhall1468 00:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
As a followup, I thought it might be of note. Greg Graziani and the owners of NERD are considered industry experts. Ron Crawford, the website you consistantly post, seems to be completely unknown.
[edit] Rules Violation
24.229.135.203 is apparently owned by the locale cable company in Pottsville, PA. According to the RCReptiles forums, the owner (Ron Crawford) ALSO lives in Pottsville, PA. That is a direct violation of Wikipedia guidelines. So the only person that seems to take issue with my edits, is the one guy that happens to live in the same city as the owner fo the site in question. Jhall1468 00:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I figured I'd chime in on this because I've observed that JHall1468 thinks he owns Wikipedia and this page. Leave the links alone dude and quit trying to play God. I wouldn't be surprised if you were being paid by some of these "commercial" breeders (or you're one of them yourself) of whom you consistently defend and post their links on Wikipedia while trying to make up excuses and reasons to keep other links off the page. Get a life dude and stop screwing up the ball python page. ArtKoen
Nope, I don't think I own Wikipedia at all. I do find it ironic that after I pointed out that the original complaintent happened to live in the same city as the owner of the site he is so insistant on being included, someone else shows up to save the day. I am attempting to clean this article up and would like to eventually add to it. However, that has been extremely difficult given some users advertising on the page. I have requested mediation, should you and the anon. user choose not to agree to mediation, I will be forced to go to the Arbitration Committee.
And FYI, I'm not a breeder or paid by those that breed. I'm a collector and hobbiest that would like Wikipedia to offer accurate, unbiased information regarding the animal in question. I'm not defending anything, as External Links and references are two different things, and I assure you the moment I have good sources to cite in loo of the commercial breeders, I will change it.
Either way, posting a link to articles available elsewhere, and a page that is 75% affilliate links is NOT a resource nor informative site. The articles in question aren't even accurate. Jhall1468 03:20, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] should be headed "Royal python"
There was a lot of good, solid information I put on here about keeping these animals as pets ( I keep them myself) and some idiot has decided to rub it all off. If the info is accurate, why do people feel the need to alter it!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.42.140.54 (talk • contribs) 20:05, 6 January 2007.
Much of this article read (and still reads) like a book and removing it was neccesary, although it was not me who did it. Jhall1468 03:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
This article should be headed "Royal python", and stated it is also known as a "Ball python". The clue is in the snakes latin name: regis means king (or royal)
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary(1913): Regius, a. [L. regius, from rex, regis, a king.] - of or pertaining to a king; royal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.169.24.100 (talk • contribs) 13:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC).
Article was originally written in American English and will remain that way, since the topic isn't dialect-specific. Jhall1468 08:54, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] On using commercial breeders as external links
I have attempted to modify the external links section to remove unneccesary linking to commerical breeders sites. My arguement: breeders sites, although containing some information, lack information that is not already available on public forums and non-commerical sites.
Specifically, the top two external links point to one breeders site, the first to the home page, the second to the commercial breeders forums. The home page lacks any real information regarding the articles main purpose (Ball pythons), and in fact, primarily have "sales" information regarding the animal. The second link (forum) is largely unused and relatively useless in an informative sense.
User User:24.115.65.15 has largely ignored my arguments, and has reverted external links to previous versions.
According to the rules, links that should normally be avoided include links that are primarily used to sell a product or service. The links provided to all the commercial sites do just that. I suggest that the commercial breeders sites (and perhaps the classifieds as well) should be removed as per the rule mentioned previously. Jhall1468 06:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Third opinion
Jhall1468 is right in his enforcing of the WP:EL guideline. --Flex 16:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Fourth opinion
Wikipedia User I am a regular user of Wikipedia and find the links very helpful. Kingsnake.com is a COMMERCIAL site that monetizes off of advertisers so it's unfair to include them and disregard everyone else. With respect to ball pythons, the first link was very helpful to me because they have more published information on ball pythons than Kingsnake.com and some of the other sites listed. I looked at the forum at the second link and read through the threads. The forum seems very active and rich with ball python related information so it's unfair to state that they don't have an active forum. The Snake Keeper link is very useful as well because they actually created some of the ball python morphs that are listed on Wikipedia. The same thing goes for Constrictors Unlimited and a few of the other links. Many of these sites offer ball python information above and beyond what's available on Kingsnake.com and I feel they should remain. If you're going to omit links because you feel they're commercial then you should omit EVERY link that's commercial in nature, Kingsnake.com included. They have one care sheet for ball pythons and that's it. The first link has over 25 articles on ball pythons yet you want to remove that link and say it's not good? I actually learned quite a bit from that site and my ball python could have died if I didn't find that site when I read this Wikipedia entry. Please leave the links in place, they were very useful to me as they are to other people. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.115.65.15 (talk • contribs).
- I would note that a link's usefulness to you is technically irrelevant when it comes to whether it should be kept or not. Forums, for instance, should be avoided unless the page mandates their citation (this one certainly does not). Moreover, this post appears not to be a distinct fourth opinion but a sock puppet. In any case, you may be right about Kingsnake.com, but that was not the question at hand. --Flex 18:19, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Technically irrelvant? Is Wikipedia for brainless robots or humans looking for information on a specific topic of interest? Since I don't think it was made for robots, my feelings of the usefulness of the links are very relevant as I have been helped by the external links in Wikipedia. Please keep in mind that Ball Pythons are living animals and just because someone chooses to make them available on their website should not discredit them from having a link to their site, especially if the site provides an abundance of concentrated information on the subject. I would also argue that having the prescence of breeder sites is very relevant because a person can contact an experienced "expert" on the topic as I did when my ball python almost perished. I should also note that a lot of the information known about ball pythons was in fact discovered by and published by some of the breeders listed in the external links section. Thanks for your time and have a pleasant day. Wikipedia User —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.115.65.15 (talk • contribs).
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- Once again, a personal anecdote. Wikipedia is a resource, and a technical resource at that. Breeder sites can be found quite easily using Google, the purpose of the article is to inform, and you'll note, no other encyclopedia uses commercial sites as sources... whether Internet based or not. Kingsnake as a valuable resource is far more "in question" than the breeders sites, but for the sake of neutrality all commercially-oriented sites will be removed. Jhall1468 06:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- To User:24.115.65.15: Yes, technically irrelevant. The Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising (see WP:NOT and WP:EL). I notice you did not deny the accusation of sock puppetry. Anyway, it seems like you're in good hands with User:JHall1468, so I'll bid you farewell. --Flex 12:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- To Jhall1468 I think we've achieved a "win/win" and I thank you for your professionalism in dealing with this matter. Have a pleasant day. User:24.115.65.15
[edit] On probing
If a snake lays eggs, is that definitive evidence that it is female?
I hope that wasn't a serious question.
[edit] On longevity
According to Guinness World Records the oldest snake was a 40 year-old Red-tailed Boa (Boa constrictor), so the age of 48 would make this species the World's longest-lived snake. I did some searches, and found out about a Ball Python that died at the reported age of 49 years 4 months in Philadelphia Zoo (the same zoo as the Guinness approved boa!). But I found no more details, such as date of death, or if this snake was named. Another source gave this species a maximum age of 28 years in captivity. Clearly this calls for further research.
My research indicates the same, noted with a citation needed. Perhaps should be removed until an actual source is available. Jhall1468 07:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Poisonous?
This article doesn't discuss whether this snake is poisonous or not. Is it?
Ball pythons, like all pythons, are constrictors (squeeze their prey to death) and do not have any venom what so ever. or do they....
As stated, constrictors are all nonvenomous and the article was updated to note that. Jhall1468 07:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Units?
What kind of gallons are we talking about here? US gallons, UK gallons? dry gallon? Perhaps it would be better to use metric units. Same goes for temperature, it didnt specify at all, but I reckoned we were talking about Fahrenheit given the numbers, so I added that.
[edit] picture
i suggest using another picture of a ball python, as the pastel is a "non mainstream" variant. the picture displayed in the infobox should be (imo) representative of the "typical" specimen subject of the article and -if desired- pictures of the many variants (pastel, amelanistic, leucistic, etc etc) could be secondaryly included in the body or as links.
just ignore this suggestion if i'm wrong --217.126.82.94 15:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- btw, same should apply to List of Serpentes families
Will work on finding photos Jhall1468 07:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
