Talk:Bakkwa
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[edit] Old AFD =
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This article was previously considered for deletion. An archived record of the discussion can be found here. |
Titoxd(?!?) 01:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Singapore-centric
I've tried to make this article less Singapore-centric [1], but User:Huaiwei has reverted it [2]. — Instantnood 17:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
- And expanded on it.--Huaiwei 18:10, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
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- But the person demanding other regional variations exists is you, so its your onus to show that they are remarkably similar to warrant one article. Are all materials on noodle dishes non existant in that of other noodle dishes? Who set that criteria?--Huaiwei 19:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
- It's not my demand. It's a fact. — Instantnood 09:28, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
- Facts arent facts till they are proven. Your username is not a brandname for verificability.--Huaiwei 14:32, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
- Fine. Guess what you want me to do is to get a handful of air tickets, fly around, take a few pictures, and upload them. — Instantnood 17:40, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Tickets are getting cheaper. Cathay Pacific has been giving even budget airlines a run for their money, and I flew with them for over 6 times now in 2 years.--Huaiwei 10:43, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- Fine. Guess what you want me to do is to get a handful of air tickets, fly around, take a few pictures, and upload them. — Instantnood 17:40, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Facts arent facts till they are proven. Your username is not a brandname for verificability.--Huaiwei 14:32, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
- It's not my demand. It's a fact. — Instantnood 09:28, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
- But the person demanding other regional variations exists is you, so its your onus to show that they are remarkably similar to warrant one article. Are all materials on noodle dishes non existant in that of other noodle dishes? Who set that criteria?--Huaiwei 19:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
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Please take a look at this edit for the efforts that make the article less Singapore-centric. Thanks. — Instantnood 18:27, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
- How should that version be superior to the one currently in use? The use of Chinese characters only is obviously not acceptable for an English wikipedia. Could you show us more people in Fujian, Taiwan, Malaysia and Singapore now of this food as Jerky, more so than bakkwa (or its derivative spellings)?--Huaiwei 11:58, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- As said, it's known in English as "pork jerky" in Taiwan, as well as in Hong Kong and Macau. Only in Singapore, and perhaps in Malaysia too, is it known in English as "bakkwa". Using its Chinese name in the leading sentence is to avoid disputes around multiple English names, and multiple ways of transliterations based on multible spoken variants. — Instantnood 17:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- I am sorry, but are you sure it is known in English as "bakkwa in Singapore? Is Bakkwa an English word? You appear to simply things into a "you use this, I use that" equation, but I await your sources to support these assumptions. Can you show us that the term Bakkwa has never popped up in English conversations outside Singapore, since you continue to claim it as such? Meanwhile, the naming convensions obviously do not support the useage of Chinese characters in this manner. What justification do you have to deviate from the said convention?--Huaiwei 00:46, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
- As said, it's known in English as "pork jerky" in Taiwan, as well as in Hong Kong and Macau. Only in Singapore, and perhaps in Malaysia too, is it known in English as "bakkwa". Using its Chinese name in the leading sentence is to avoid disputes around multiple English names, and multiple ways of transliterations based on multible spoken variants. — Instantnood 17:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Indeed, so why is instantnood seemingly suggesting any difference in usage in Singapore compared to that in Greater China? Meanwhile, bakkwa is also spelt as bak kwa, bak kua, bakkua. etc. Google search hits is obviously not a good source to check if a word is "English". You check an English dictionary, phrase book, or any other authoritative text.--Huaiwei 03:29, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
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- English usage in Singapore regularly injects non-English words in everyday usage. This does not automatically make it an English term. Is kiasu an English word just because we regularly use it even in proper English conversations (and not just in Singlish)? For your information, Bee Cheng Hiang regularly promotes the term "Bakkwa", in perhaps a marketing gimmick to better connect with regular Singaporeans who refer to it as such in any language, yet if you pick up a box of prepacked Bakkwa from its shops, you still see the words "Barbecued Pork" on it. Other shops may call it by different names, including "Dried Pork", and this wide range of names reflect the fact that there is no standard English name or phrase for this food. Bakkwa is now chosen as a page title because it is clearly dictinctive from any other kind of Barbecued pork, has a respectable number of google hits, and has crept into everyday English usage where English is widely used, ie, in Singapore and Malaysia.--Huaiwei 03:53, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
- Alright... I should have said it's not known as bakkwa in common English usage in Taiwan. — Instantnood 17:40, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Is English usage common in Taiwan?--Huaiwei 20:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- That's beyond the discussion here. — Instantnood 20:56, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Why?--Huaiwei 21:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- What we've to consider is whether the name bakkwa is popularly used in English in these places. Whether English is commonly used in these places is irrelevant. — Instantnood 18:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- Oh really? What wikipedia naming conventions has been doing, is to find the most commonly used word irregardless of location. This means, that if Singaporeans and Malaysians happen to use English more, and they use a particular phrase more, than yes, this phrase will become more established in English usage compared to another location with little usage of English and little usage of another phrase. Whether English is commonly used in these places is irrelevant? Demonstrate to us how this is so.--Huaiwei 10:48, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- What we've to consider is whether the name bakkwa is popularly used in English in these places. Whether English is commonly used in these places is irrelevant. — Instantnood 18:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- Why?--Huaiwei 21:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- That's beyond the discussion here. — Instantnood 20:56, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Is English usage common in Taiwan?--Huaiwei 20:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- Alright... I should have said it's not known as bakkwa in common English usage in Taiwan. — Instantnood 17:40, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- English usage in Singapore regularly injects non-English words in everyday usage. This does not automatically make it an English term. Is kiasu an English word just because we regularly use it even in proper English conversations (and not just in Singlish)? For your information, Bee Cheng Hiang regularly promotes the term "Bakkwa", in perhaps a marketing gimmick to better connect with regular Singaporeans who refer to it as such in any language, yet if you pick up a box of prepacked Bakkwa from its shops, you still see the words "Barbecued Pork" on it. Other shops may call it by different names, including "Dried Pork", and this wide range of names reflect the fact that there is no standard English name or phrase for this food. Bakkwa is now chosen as a page title because it is clearly dictinctive from any other kind of Barbecued pork, has a respectable number of google hits, and has crept into everyday English usage where English is widely used, ie, in Singapore and Malaysia.--Huaiwei 03:53, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Taiwan and Macao
These two places are also famous for their ruogan. This article is a bit Singapore-centric... -- Jerry Crimson Mann 17:48, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- User:Huaiwei actually claims bakkwa to be a Singapore-specific food. He said new entries can be created if there're other food of the kind. [5] [6] [7] [8] — Instantnood 19:31, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- Well, he should watch the movie I Not Stupid. The business of the Singaporean bakkwa-maker was originally overthrown by a Taiwanese competitor... -- Jerry Crimson Mann 19:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- Lol~. I bet he did watch it, but still he believes they're certainly different. Who say bus routes can't be competitors of metro networks? ;-) — Instantnood 19:59, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- See this (the fourth paragraph). One thing worth noticing is that "ba gua" is used in the synopsis. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 20:02, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- Lol~. I bet he did watch it, but still he believes they're certainly different. Who say bus routes can't be competitors of metro networks? ;-) — Instantnood 19:59, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- Well, he should watch the movie I Not Stupid. The business of the Singaporean bakkwa-maker was originally overthrown by a Taiwanese competitor... -- Jerry Crimson Mann 19:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- In Hong Kong as well. [9] :-) — Instantnood 20:06, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Please also read the book Sahara Desert of San Mao (三毛), a renowned Taiwanese writer, in which she lied her Spanish husband that "ba gua" was kinda medicine for sore throat. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 20:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- More evidence [10] from Yahoo! Taiwan. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 20:15, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- The next thing is to show they're similar enough, or else Huaiwei would do something like what he did with char siew rice (history · watch) and barbecued pork with rice (history · watch). — Instantnood 20:35, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- More evidence [10] from Yahoo! Taiwan. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 20:15, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- Please also read the book Sahara Desert of San Mao (三毛), a renowned Taiwanese writer, in which she lied her Spanish husband that "ba gua" was kinda medicine for sore throat. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 20:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Haha oh really? ;)--Huaiwei 03:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
- Could we merge them into one article called Char siew rice, it is very confusing to readers. Aji Ichiban in Singapore has since closed down, I've never saw this at the Sg shops here. Article can be improved with much much more on Taiwan. --Terence Ong Talk 14:48, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
- You want to merge Bakkwa with Char siew rice?--Huaiwei 10:08, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
- Lol..... No! My English is not very good and I can't express what I say well. Of course not I meant the BBQ pork with rice and Char siew rice. :P --Terence Ong Talk 10:16, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
- You want to merge Bakkwa with Char siew rice?--Huaiwei 10:08, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
- Could we merge them into one article called Char siew rice, it is very confusing to readers. Aji Ichiban in Singapore has since closed down, I've never saw this at the Sg shops here. Article can be improved with much much more on Taiwan. --Terence Ong Talk 14:48, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
- Haha oh really? ;)--Huaiwei 03:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Instantnood & Huaiwei
Don't start (or resume I should say)....... --Wgfinley 05:39, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
- In reference to?--Huaiwei 06:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Just a friendly reminder to not do that thing you do on this article since you both seem to be editing it. --Wgfinley 14:36, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
