Talk:Bahamut Lagoon

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[edit] Disclaimer

I think there should be a disclaimer for this game's plotline. If you're lonely and you wish you had a significant other... don't play this game. You will cry... or at least be very, very depressed. --InvaderJim42 19:20, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I doubt anything in the game could be as depressing as that comment, but I'll take it into consideration. - 211.28.79.52 10:02, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
This is not even close to being depressive, especially in comparison to other stories out there. You're speaking of Palpaleos, right? That was the saddest moment in the game, but it's nowhere near sorrowful enough to bring tears. Unless the player is clinically depressed.
Thanks for the warning, InvaderJim. That should be included in the article. Jecowa 23:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bahamut Bahant Senki?

What proof is there that it is linked to Bahamut Lagoon? 64.24.174.145 23:20, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expand using Japanese Wikipedia article

Translators are needed to use the Japanese Wikipedia article to expand on the English Wikipedia article. That is because Bahamut Lagoon originated in Japan. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 21:02, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misleading Screenshot

I feel the screenshot included is misleading as it is obviously using 2xSai or SuperSai sampling to improve the image quality. If you want the quote to be "Pushing the Super Famicom to its limits", you should be using a more accurate screenshot. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.164.41.95 (talk • contribs) .

Indeed. --24.131.209.132 10:55, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I've taken care of it. I even went above and beyond the call of duty and spent an hour and a half compiling an animated GIF of a brief battle sequence. --InvaderJim42 02:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Awesome GIF, InvaderJim42! Did you have to hit the screenshot key over and over during the battle to get those images for it? Jecowa 08:37, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I tried that at first, but the way that ZSNES saves its screenshots (with a timecode) means that screenshots taken at the same 'second' will be overwritten. This resulted in many missing frames, so I went back and redid the whole thing by opening the F1 menu and selecting "Screenshot/Incr. Frame" once every second. Took me a few minutes, but I got it to work. Then I spent 2 hours trying to figure out which program could build the animated GIF out of 348 frames without choking on it. I eventually settled on Macromedia Flash (the closest balance I could achieve between not-choking on the amount of data, and partial-automation of arranging things). I still had to spend a lot of time moving frames around, but I'd say it was worth it. --InvaderJim42 13:31, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source?

Where are the romanizations of these names coming from? Does the fan translation take precedence, seeing as how there are no official romanizations to speak of? The way they are now, they don't conform to either the fan translation or the various romanizations the Japanese fansites give.

And what's the reference for Bahamut Lagoon originally being intended to be Final Fantasy Tactics? 151.199.93.164 18:27, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

That's a good question, Onefiveone. It looks like they are all the same as the Japanese names except they are written in a more normal English-looking way, for example, "Matelite" instead of "Mataraito", which I think is a good transliteration of the original マテライト. The biggest difference seems to be the use of Jojo instead of Yoyo. I've sent a message to Tedius Zanarukando, the contributor of the information, requesting the answer to those questions. Jecowa 01:09, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I have another question. Since most English-speaking players of the game will be playing the fan translation, wouldn't it make more sense to use those, to avoid confusing people? I realize that these are the more phonetically correct romanizations, but especially in the case of Barberella and Jormungand, among others, where quite obvious what the creators intended to allude to, why not use the adapted translation? At least place the fan translated versions of the names beside each character, as was done for Jojo/Yoyo, when there is a discrepancy. And there are some that, while correct, sound absolutely ridiculous. Moony-Moony? --PrescitedEntity 06:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC) (Logged in now.)
Moony-Moony would be the dragon(s) Uni-Uni (real ugly buggers). But I agree with adding the fan-translated names. It took me awhile to realize the name "Restart" was "Lestat" in the fan-translation. And, in all honesty, I like "Lestat" much better than "Restart", as it alludes to the vampire Lestat. --InvaderJim42 11:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I'm sorry to cause trouble. Please fix all the incorrect names I've added. Jecowa 13:01, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expand by translation

I recommend having a Japanese translator to expand this article using the Japanese article as a reference. Focus on storyline and character description. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 02:26, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Or, someone whose played the fan-translation to completion could contribute as well. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to attempt a translation of the Japanese article when a translation of the game itself is already available. If I have any more days at work where I spend 80% of my time waiting for my boss to give me my next assignment, I'll probably go ahead and play through it again and write up a good deal of storyline and character descriptions. --InvaderJim42 03:17, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Seriously, isn't that what Tomato devoted his time to doing? Creating a translation worthy of release to the masses, that's faithful to the original? What we do need to glean from the Japanese site is, if possible, anything related to merchandise, reception, and whatnot. I'll contribute to the character descriptions and the storyline later this week, though I'll be expecting above poster to do most of it. --PrescitedEntity 06:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Consistency?

All right, what in the world are we doing now? I see some names have had their direct romanization by whomever did it on this site removed and replaced by Tomato's, others reference a fan translation, while others yet retain the romanization. Regardless of whatever else, can we at least keep it consistent? As it is, it is really confusing what the origin of the romanized names were. I'm going to change it all to Tomato's, since I see no reason to doubt his translation, especially considering the scope of their project. If there's any contest, go ahead and change it, but please, follow a single style! --PrescitedEntity 00:18, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

That sounds great. I will be glad if you change them all to Tomato's names. Jecowa 02:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Have done so; how does it look? I'll be adding some character information over the next few days, if no one else does. --PrescitedEntity 02:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Great job, PrescitedEntity! It was fun to compare the old, incorrect translation with your corrections. Jecowa 05:29, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WHEW!

Added the character bios of the resistance. Would appreciate if someone could double-check my work. Consulted the Japanese Wikipedia site, which largely said the same things I did. ^^; However, I did intentionally leave out some of the information that they included, as some of it was even more trivial than what you see here, and doesn't follow the general style of the English Wikipedia. As for why there is the inclusion of seemingly random information - it's stressed in the game. Will attempt to work on the Granbelos Empire before leaving on vacation. So, how is everything thus far? --PrescitedEntity 20:12, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Great job! that looks nice, though I only read a little of it because I'm afraid of spoilers. Jecowa 05:08, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I tried to make it as spoiler-free as possible while still having information to work with, since BL doesn't build up much in the way of backstories for the characters. What constitutes as being too much of a spoiler? --PrescitedEntity 21:34, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if you took it this way, but I didn't mean to imply that you added spoilers in the descriptions, not that that's necessarily a bad thing; there is a spoiler warning in the article. You should be able to reveal any info you want as long as there's a spoiler warning, which there is. As for what should constitute as too much of a spoiler, I'm not sure. The first paragraph of Spoiler (media) describes it pretty well. It's probably one of those subjective things. Anything that reveals twists, perhaps? I guess any information could be considered a little spoiling. I don't think revealing which dragons like to dance is spoiling anything. If the article were to reveal that the character Rush is also known as the evil dark lord, that would be spoiling. Those are both extreme examples, though. Jecowa 19:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] We should use the official English renditions whenever possible.

I think the hidden sound test in the fan-translation uses the original English titles straight from the game's soundtrack. The soundtrack displayed possible translations of the names of characters and places, and since it comes from the soundtrack, that makes those English names official. That means listing Sacred Dragons instead of Holy Dragons, Zauzer instead of Sauzer, Matlight instead of Matelite, Gaudluf instead of Gudolf, Maharu instead of Mahal, Daphira instead of Dafira, Altyre instead of Altair, and... Godorando instead of Godland. And also, some names are compacted for the fan translation. For example, Farnheit instead of Fahrenheit, and the dragons. This is discussed in the patch's readme file. Wikipedia should list the official English names as much as possible instead of relying solely on the fan translation. It was an exellent translation, no doubt about that, and the names are perfectly acceptable, but it should still use all known official spellings regardless. Use names from the fan translation when no official spelling is available. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.101.148.55 (talk) 16:10, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

I disagree. First things first, the soundtrack titles were not written in English - there is no official translation that I am aware of. The majority of the titles from the sound test are the same, and those that aren't don't make much sense (Sauzer and Zauzer have the same number of letters, so shortening for space is not the cause). Also, some are obviously supposed to be what they wound up translated as in the game - "Godorando" for "Godland"? I'm pretty sure that the intent was "Godland". In fact, to quote the great Tomato himself:
   * Neill added a hidden jukebox (sound test) to the game. The names used
     in the track titles of the songs don't correspond to the spelling
     Tomato used in the dialogue, this is because the track titles were taken
     from an OST cd (I think) but weren't necessarily correct, but we will
     still honor them. For example, they had Zauzer instead of Sauzer.
Looking at this, I'd wager that it was another, earlier fan translation (one of many, in fact - I've seen Yoyo as Jojo, Kahna as Karnha/Kanna/etc, and a plethora of other discrepancies) which, had it been more popular at the time, may have mislead the translation team to assume they were begotten from some reputable source somewhere. If this is the case, then since we don't even know the party involved in the translation; whereas translation team for the game was fairly well known, and the most reliable source we've got, we don't even know the credentials for the person who translated the soundtrack titles. Even if that translation predates that of the game, I'd say that the game's translators have greater merit, unless someone provides information otherwise (not that I'm sure what exactly would be more important than the actual translation of the game). It doesn't even make sense - what's more important, the game's translation, or the soundtrack's, even given that they are of equal standing in terms of translating? Even if we bar all this, the majority of people visiting this site will have been those who either have played, or will play through the fan translated version of the game, so going by the soundtrack. So unless information surfaces as to an official translation, or greater credentials are found, I'd say keep the translation of the game's version. --PrescitedEntity 22:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I have to note that the fan translation's rendition is what practically every English-speaking gamer to ever touch the game will end up seeing anyway. --Kizor 01:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I said that, but it's somewhere in that big block of text, LOL. XP --204.111.40.10 16:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Ah, yes. Yes, it is. --Kizor 18:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not like anyone's going to read this, but...

I ask again, because I've seen it surface from time to time - where does the claim that Bahamut Lagoon was originally meant to be Final Fantasy Tactics come from? Is there anything to substantiate this? Yes, a few people associated with the FF franchise worked on/supervised Bahamut Lagoon's development, and the game does bear some similarity to the Final Fantasies, but that's no grounds for the claim, as far as I know. Also, the timeline seems rather off - if its rejection marked the initiation of the Final Fantasy Tactics project as we know it, how did they pull it off? FFT was a very polished game, with an intricate story and a wholly different style of gameplay, on a different, new console, released only a bit over a year after Bahamut Lagoon. How could they have worked it out in at most a year or two, since FFT was certainly no slapdash offering? And how strong does a claim have to be to remain, in any form, on an article? --PrescitedEntity 05:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I am still here hee hee, I wouldnt dare to claim BL has any relation with FFT appart from the similarities on the gameplay styles, I offer my point of view relying on the fact I've played and enjoyed both games of course, to me, they look like totally different universes and stories from a player's point of view, I would rather say that Bahamut Lagoon provided several of the foundation used in FFT gmeplay style through its back in the date, innovative game mechanics, certainly different from many of the RPG titles of the time, we could say that Squaresoft, now SquareEnix, has always tried to crete new gameplay mechanics for its new games while trying to take their previous most successful mechanics to perfection, I wouldn't claim that BL was meant to be FFT, but we could place them together on a time line on the evolution of game mechanics created by SquareEnix Knight of Gold 19:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

That part should really be removed, as there is no evidence at all backing it.
Also, the Japanese article on the game seems to mention nothing about Final Fantasy Tactics (I don't read Japanese so I can't really confirm this). The only mention about any FF game is about FFVIII in a section at the bottom. バハムートラグーン. Maybe someone could ask Druff about his sources? 83.252.167.175 16:18, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

All right, I relent. After reviewing Verifiability policy on Wikipedia, I will not re-add as it is until we get better information from Druff or another source. I would, however, like to note it somehow, and since Druff did say he got his information from the UoSHP in the way back when...

IDK, will have to figure out something. --PrescitedEntity 17:14, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

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