User talk:Badagnani

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Contents 1 Archived talk 2 Jiu Bis 3 It seems that we are far from reaching an agreement 4 Su-hang 5 Szechuan vs Sichuan 6 WTF? 7 none 8 Re: Buffalo Boy 9 Turkish tea 10 Re:Com ruou 11 Gianh River 12 dansul - sikhye enquiry from another talk page 13 Anne LeBaron 14 Burmese tofu 15 Jugalbandhi 16 Sinhalese language 17 Double clarinet 18 Overclassification? 19 current deletion review 20 Re: Chanuk 21 Primary sources: forgeries 22 Subgum 23 Tonal languages 24 Image:Jiebing_Chen.gif 25 Imam bayeldi 26 Stein 27 Roberto Fabbriciani 28 Harry M. Caudill 29 Naming conventions 30 ArbCom 31 Session bitter

[edit] Archived talk

• Archive 1 (June 24, 2005 - April 24, 2006)
• Archive 2 (April 24, 2006 - June 18, 2006)
• Archive 3 (June 19, 2006 - August 25, 2006)
• Archive 4 (August 29, 2006 - November 13, 2006)
• Archive 5 (November 13, 2006 - February 2, 2007)
• Archive 6 (February 2, 2007 - March 15, 2007)

[edit] Jiu Bis

Yeah, I agree he does bring up some good points. I think we may have had a similar discussion way back on whether to call the article "fermented chinese wines" or "huangjiu" and "distilled chinese wines" or "baijiu". I personally think that he is (sorta, partially, maybe) arguing that the "overall ingredient" should be the main classification parameter with "main technique" being the sub-categories. Really, we can choose ANYTHING to be the main classifying parameter; whether the liquor is pure rice or not, which starter is used, the "simplicity" of the technique, the region of production, the proportion of glutinous to "normal" rice, ad nauseum. However for better or worse, the alcohol articles in wikipedia is split into two big chunks: "distilled" and "fermented". For coherency and clarity, I think this is the was Chinese liquors should also be organized. I'm going to sleep, will come play tomorrow if the game is still on, and from the looks of it, it will. ;) Sjschen 06:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

When I read sources to write the section, it's said to be named this way because it "Smells like rice spirit" Sjschen 06:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Xiang mi jiu appears to be rice wine made with "xiang mi" or jasmine rice, or it's just saying that the mijiu is very fragrant. Mibaijiu is baijui made from rice, as I said on User:Ksyrie's page, maybe Rice baijiu be a better article name for the whole fragrance deal, though mibaijiu is kinda okay. I guess. Sjschen 01:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It seems that we are far from reaching an agreement

Corn whiskey is also one kind of whiskey.--Ksyrie 13:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

There isn't Rice Baijiu,while to some extent there are Mijiu which literaly means Rice Jiu--Ksyrie 00:42, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Mibaijiu is the rice-made non-distilled beverage,like the Choujiu.But I cann't find a proper category for it.You see,the chinese classification is totally in a mess.Though Mibaijiu is called baijiu,its nature is fermented. --Ksyrie 01:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

More developments on the mibaijiu mess can be found on User:Ksyrie's talkpage.Sjschen 04:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Haha, no expertise here, just some research. An article is definitely in order, question is what should it be called? I have no idea of the history of baijiu. :) But the term bai in Chinese is commonly and confusingly used to refer to "clear" things (白开水, plain boiled water) or actually "whitish" things (白牛奶, white cow's milk). Naturally this gets confused in the case of rice wines, which can be both clear or white. Chinese methods of classification is sometimes a real mess. Sjschen 05:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Su-hang

Suhang = Suzhou and Hangzhou.

Tauchu = .... I have no idea. Seems like a Min dialect, but I can't find a source. -- ran (talk) 18:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Yep, it's pretty common =) -- ran (talk) 18:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Like ran said, a it's the min dialect, more southern min, but they might say it similarly in Northern min. In "rough" standard pin-yin, it read something like "dǎu-jǐeu" Sjschen 01:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know the correct romanization for southern min. so I'll leave that out. Sjschen 01:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The third tone always becomes a second tone before another third tone, but in pinyin it's always marked as third tone even if it's pronounced differently. -- ran (talk) 19:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

That's the neutral tone, also known as the "fifth" or "zeroth" tone. In Mandarin, unstressed syllables lose their tones and are pronounced with the "neutral" tone. The actual pitch of that tone depends on the syllable before it.

In general, the following have neutral tones:

• Verb endings such as:
  • Aspect endings like -le and -guo;
  • Directional endings like -lai, -qu, -shang, -xia
• The counter -ge
• The multi-functional particle -de
• Mood suffixes, like -le, -ne, -ma
• The plural suffix -men
• Noun suffixes like -zi, -tou

The neutral tone is distinguished from non-neutral tones, for example, 孫子 Sūn Zǐ Sun Tzu versus 孫子 sūn zi "grandson". -- ran (talk) 20:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

It would be zi3 for "son" or honorific, and zi5 for the noun suffix.

For Lao Zi, there is a difference between 老子 Lao3 zi3, the philosopher, and 老子 Lao3 zi5, which is a slang term for "daddy" (as in "yo daddy"). -- ran (talk) 20:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Szechuan vs Sichuan

This discussion is taking place on the Talk:Szechuan_cuisine page. Over time I've seen your great input Badagnani so hopefully you'll be able to share an opinion on this. For or against :) Also, everyone else who is keen on cuisine, pinyin and anything else Chinese should definitely come across and join in. Djwatson 02:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WTF?

[1] You should assume good faith and not swear (even if it is in a TLA). [2] I was adding in all the missing fields as you were busy writing your edit summary. :) MRSC • Talk 06:11, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd appreciate you not using profanity in your edit summaries as per WP:Profanity. User Jhamez84 removed the population figures from the places infobox. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 11:02, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

No sir, you removed the population figures when you carelessly reverted numerous edits made by others (besides the change of infobox). See here [3]. I suggest you check your reverts more thoroughly in future, especially as earlier yesterday you had the hypocrisy to accuse me of being "trigger-happy" Pit-yacker 14:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] none

Actually, "none" can be singular or plural - depending on the sentence. So if what was meant was "None of the 4 victims" it could properly take the plural "were" - where "none" is the opposite of "all". If it is used to mean "not one" as opposed to "one", then it uses the singular. Google "none singular plural grammar" and you'll find lots of references - here's one. In this case, "None were closer" - would be correct to connote the ooposite of "All of them were closer" or "None was closer" meaning "Not one of them was closer". It's a subtle point. I think either one works here. Tvoz | talk 07:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Buffalo Boy

Mùa len trâu = Water buffalo herding? season. Mùa=season, trâu=water buffalo, len=? According to this article, the practice of len trâu is a practice in the Mekong Delta during every flood season to lead the water buffalo into high grounds. It's based on a short story of the same name. DHN 07:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

No, I haven't seen it. You might also be interested in seeing Three Seasons. "Len" seems to be a word specific to the Mekong Delta region (according to vi:Mùa len trâu, it's a Khmer word meaning to go freely), to "len trâu" means to let them go freely. The normal meanings of "len" don't seem to apply. DHN 07:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try to catch it when I have the chance. Another film coming out getting rave reviews among the Vietnamese-American community is Journey from the Fall. DHN 08:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Turkish tea

Badagnani, please check the talk page Talk:Turkish tea. deniz 17:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Com ruou

I don't see anything wrong with the article. There are a lot of cultural differences between the northern and southern portion of the country, due to historical reasons (the partition in the 20th century is only a brief period compared to the partition in the 17th and 18th centuries). In my experience, there seems to be a lot of bitterness that southerners have for northerners who moved south after 1975 (the southerners see them as carpetbaggers). This recent article describes some of the lingering divide. DHN 04:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I see that there are already articles about regions of Vietnam started. Perhaps the information can be added to those articles. DHN 04:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

That info seems fine to me. I added some info to the Northern and southern Vietnam article. DHN 05:59, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Gianh River is in Quang Binh province, roughly the 17th parallel in the 20th century, according to the Vietnamese Wikipedia article. DHN 06:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea why they chose those rivers. Since Quang Binh is north of Quang Tri, I'd guess that the Giang River is north of the Ben Hai River. DHN 06:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gianh River

I'm not sure about the spelling though. According to the government map [4], there's a river in the province named Giang (which means "River"). I'm raising the issue at the Vietnamese Wikipedia. I'll let you know if the spelling is wrong. DHN 06:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] dansul - sikhye enquiry from another talk page

Hi I saw your enquiry on another talk page. As far as I am aware, 'dansul' is a regional name (Gyeongnsang-do dialect) for sikhye -- they are actually the same. The dansul that has been served to me for some 12-odd years in Gyeongsang-do has never contained alcohol. -- Mumun 無文 09:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I gave a qualified response to your reply on my talk page. I put the response on the Gamju talk page in the hopes that others who know more than I might help us sort this out. *^^* Mumun 無文 11:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anne LeBaron

Hi there. I saw that you put Anne LeBaron into the American harpists category and read your edit summary, so I thought I'd ask you a question. Inspired by Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians/Categorization, I'm trying to sort out Category:Harpists by putting as many harpists as possible into their correct nationality / genre sub-categories (most harpists had just been placed in the top level category: I've created 24 sub-categories so far, and counting!). There was already a "jazz harpists" category and there are now "rock / classical harpists" categories - when I get down to the Irish and Welsh, I suspect we'll have folk harpists too. Can I ask a favour, since you know more about her than I do, having created the page? Which other harp genre category/ies should she be in? I'm happy to do the legwork of category creation if you point me in the right direction. My understanding of the Musicians Categorization scheme is that people should end up in the lowest possible sub-categories rather than stuck further up the tree at "American harpists" (although that's better than "harpists"), hence my enquiry. (And when you've answered that one, have a look at Harpo Marx and work out which genre of harpist he fits into!!) Best wishes, Bencherlite 12:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Fine, she goes into Category:American harpists who are annoyingly hard to classify, (a sub-category of Category:Harpists who are annoyingly hard to classify by nationality, Category:Musicians who are annoyingly hard to classify by nationality and Category:Musicians who are annoyingly hard to classify by instrument) - along with Harpo Marx! Thanks for your speedy reply. I'll have a think about this and try later, after work perhaps... Bencherlite 12:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Ta. Another one to look at later, if and when I ever do some proper work! Bencherlite 12:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I took Anne LeBaron out of American classical harpists, leaving her in American harpists, on the basis that she shouldn't be in the main category and a sub-category, and as she couldn't be put neatly into multiple sub-categories, it was best to leave her just in the parent category. I've tagged Andreas Vollenweider as a Swiss harpist, without genre classification, for the same reason. Incidentally, I found that there was a parallel category to your creation of Category:Guzheng players - that of Category:Guzheng artists, which is empty, so I've listed it for speedy deletion. Bencherlite 13:40, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Burmese tofu

Sorry for the delay. I should refer you to User:Wagaung, who wrote the Burmese tofu article. I wouldn't be of much help in anything regarding cooking. But I'm sure Wagaung could provide a detailed explanation. --Hintha 13:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I'm sorry I'm no cook either, so I won't be of much help with a recipe in any detail. It's not fermented dough however. Roughly it's mix, add a little salt and turmeric, heat and stir till it gives off a toasted aroma, then transfer to a dish to set. Hope it goes well and enjoy. Wagaung 18:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jugalbandhi

Hi, I added the Devanagari for Jugalbandhi, as per your request. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sarayuparin (talk • contribs) 02:42, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Sinhalese language

Hey Badagnani! As I don't know how to appropriately respond to the edit you made to the named article, let me do it here. I will also remove your edit because it would serve as an invitation to add unsubstantiated info.

The meaning of the word "sinhala" is disputed. The first element probably is "sinha" which means lion in Sanskrit. The "la" however is unaccounted for, even though Sinhalese people may tell you otherwise (for example, that it means "kill" [so "sinhala" = "lionkiller"], which as far as I know is absurd from a linguistic point of view).

In the light of the absence of indisputable facts, the word "sinhala" has to be considered a name, and nothing more than that. Cheers, Krankman 08:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Glad I could help, thanks for your answer! Alright then, I will look into it, and add a sentence or two on the possible etymology of the name. Cheers, Krankman 18:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Double clarinet

You've placed a "mergewith" template on this article, pointing to Mijwiz, but you've placed no template at the latter, and provided no reason. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 11:09, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Overclassification?

Hello again. I saw your hidden comment next to Category:American classical bassoonists for Arthur Weisberg, and your comments at the talk page of Category:American jazz bassoonists. You could have just left me a note on my talk page! I'm just following the guidelines at Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians/Categorization, namely:

Category structure

Please use the following guidelines when organizing articles. To discuss these guidelines, please use the talk page.

...

Order naming

All categories should be named using the following order:

Nationality

Genre

Instrument

I agree that it does seem odd to have to click through several levels to get to one name at the end, but there are advantages: for example, it means that when you are looking at the category of American classical musicians, you can find bassoonists as easily as pianists and violinists. There may not be many bassoonists on Wikipedia at the moment, but all that may change in the future as WP grows. I'm following the same structure for bassoon as I did for oboe and viola, and am half-way through doing for harp. (You may have noticed that I made some changes to the American bassoon categories you created to make sure that they followed the same pattern as other instruments - thanks for your help, though). The WikiProject Musicians categorization guidelines that I'm using have the benefit of being WP:CONSENSUS but if you want to discuss them at their talk page, suggesting a minimum number of musicians in a category before it's sub-divided by genre and nationality, you're more than welcome to do so. Best wishes, Bencherlite 22:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

A further thought - maybe a List of bassoonists would do what you want better than not classifying bassoonists. Bencherlite 22:45, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

List populated, and I've given you credit for the idea on my updated user page. Regards, Bencherlite 00:47, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] current deletion review

Thanks for speaking up. I've joined you, and let's keep at it. the nonadmins have right too, and this is a good place to say so DGG 21:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Chanuk

Actually, you had asked me the same question about an year or so ago. However, then and now, I do not understand what you are referring to. At least, the name you mention is not probably used in Bangladesh ... perhaps it is a regional term peculiar to West Bengal. If that's the case, User:Dwaipayanc can cast some light on this. Thanks. --Ragib 04:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, now that you explain the term, I know what it is called in East Bengal (Bangladesh). As per my wife and my mom, this is called "bagar" (বাগাড় দেয়া). This is what I've heard all women call it in BD. Of course, it may very well be another regional term ...

Yes, culinary terms are different in West/East Bengal. For example, Green peppers are mostly called "mareech" in EB, but "lanka" in WB. There are some other terms that differ between the regions. --Ragib 04:43, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

The B in Bagar is pronounced as in blue. G is as in Girl. The process is actually called "Bagar dewa" (বাগাড় দেয়া or বাগার দেয়া), which is a verb. I also looked up a popular Bangla recipe site (by a lady from Bangladesh) [5], look for the term "বাগার" (she is talking about tempering cumin seeds in hot oil). --Ragib 04:53, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

বাগার = Bagar = the act of tempering, দেয়া = dewa = to do . Together, the phrase is "Bagar dewa" = to perform tempering. Hope this helps. --Ragib 04:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I have not heard the term "bagar dewa"! Well, I am very ignorant about cuisines and cooking. I'll ask my mother or grandma about this and let you know. I've never heard Chaunk either. However "tarka" is regularly used. It's seen mostly as a north Indian cuisine, especially popular in Punjab. We go to Dhabas to eat tarka sometimes.--Dwaipayan (talk) 11:15, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Primary sources: forgeries

I've made a suggestion on the primary sources talk page. Rjm at sleepers 07:36, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subgum

It probably means "ten varieties", "ten colours". -- ran (talk) 04:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

According to the Guoyu Dictionary published by the Ministry of Education, ROC [Taiwan], we have:

[6]

什: NOUN. 1) a numeral, "ten". 2) In the Shijing, ten ya or song is known as one shi. 3) A surname. ADJECTIVE. numerous; varied.

[7]

錦: NOUN. 1) A silk weaving with bright colours and patterns. 2) A surname. ADJECTIVE. 1) Beautiful and vivid. 2) Numerous and varied.

[8]

什錦: 1) Made from many materials or varieties. 2) A food composed of many materials or varieties.

So the correct explanation is probably "numerous and varied".

As for 雜錦, that's probably a synonym. -- ran (talk) 20:58, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tonal languages

Hi. I see you recreated category:Tonal languages. You were probably not aware that this category was deleted through CfD (see Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_May_13#Category:Tonal_languages). However, the very category is hugely problematic; see the arguments given in the CfD and on Category talk:Tonal languages. So I hope you're willing to turn over the recreation of that category. Thanks for understanding! — mark ✎ 07:00, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

No, sorry, I'm not, because it's a category that needs to exist, and which I would use often--and which is severely lacking. Whoever created most of the Bantu language articles, for example, doesn't even mention whether the languages are tonal or not. That's unacceptable in an encyclopedia like ours that purports to cover all the bases. I don't agree that a "tonal languages" category is problematic in any way. Mandinka is tonal, Fula is not. Swedish is tonal, English is not. It's very clear and the category needs to exist. I'm very familiar with delete-happy editors who haunt "Categories for deletion" and usually their arguments, if they are presented at all, don't make much sense as they are not qualified in the subjects they vote "delete" on. Thanks for your interest, though. Badagnani 07:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I take it that you get to decide what is tonal and what is not, then. I assume you're aware of the difficulties you'll get into as soon as you're going to talk about the tonality of Limburgish or Norwegian, or the difference between pitch-accent systems and tonal systems (a controversial issue even within Bantu; take Kituba as an example).

Anyway, good luck with maintaining the category and keeping it useful (which is going to be difficult if it contains over 60% of the world's languages). — mark ✎ 07:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Jiebing_Chen.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Jiebing_Chen.gif. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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[edit] Imam bayeldi

Hey, I responded on the Armenian cuisine talk page! - Fedayee 05:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stein

No info on Stein from LC; sorry --FeanorStar7 10:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roberto Fabbriciani

I noticed that you are contesting the speedy deletion notice for Roberto Fabbriciani. The deletion is not based on notability, but is a copyright violation which is of concern. That is why it is part of official policy (see WP:SPEEDY). Notice has been given to the original editor with a note on their talk page advising them of the speedy deletion tag. And there is no barrier to preventing creation of a proper article on Roberto Fabbriciani that doesn't resort to copying the biography from his web site verbatim. Regards. -- Whpq 22:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Harry M. Caudill

I personally am not from Letcher County, though a large portion of my family has been there for their entire lives. My father is from Letcher County, and Harry M. Caudill is a great-uncle of mine. The area is my favourite place to be; it's beautiful. *Vendetta* _{(whois talk edits)} 16:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naming conventions

I told you where to look for the discussion. Did you choose to join the discussion? No, you revert-warred without even changing your edit comment. That section has been labeled NPOV for over a year. Either we are going to discuss it or it is getting deleted. --Ideogram 06:29, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you discussing? No. Are you reverting? Yes. That's three reverts. One more and you get blocked. --Ideogram 06:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ArbCom

I didn't mean to leave you out, there are a lot of people who have concerns. I added everyone who participated in the first phase of his RfC. Please feel free to add yourself at User:Jord/ArbCom-Abu badali. - Jord 14:16, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Session bitter

Where does the term "session bitter" come from? Is it because they were/are drunk at music "jam" sessions? Badagnani 20:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

No - it means you can have a drinking session on it and not fall over - the stronger beers are too much to drink all night - I can vouch for that! Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! ^(Whisper...) 15:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)