Talk:Baden-Powell Scouts

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Scouting Wiki Project Baden-Powell Scouts is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Many thanks to the president and the members of the organisation for helping with this article

Contents

[edit] Cubs

Is that actually Wold cubs as shown in the article? Or should it be World cubs? 80.225.41.253 22:52, 27 Sep 2003 (UTC)

There is a Canadian Apologist who apears to be editing the US content. Each time a new entry is made, it appears the person does not understand the WIFS constitution which specially states WIFS does endorse any single national scouting body nor does it issue national charters as this would be taking the role of WOSM where only one form of scouting is recognised as the offical.

[edit] person

The new edits really need to be written as they instead of we. --Chris 04:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Yep, I left a message earlier for him on his talk page. I see you have done some of them. --Bduke 05:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australia

Was the introduction of baseball hats in Australia or the UK. That para had quite a bit that was UK not Australia and I have removed it. Is the movement in the UK affiliated to WFIS? In which case the movement in Australia is affiliated via the UK Branch. I've added a call for citations on both points. --Bduke 00:56, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] edit asked for by BPSA

Just recieved an answer fom BPSA and they asked me to make some changes. I'll include part of their statement, but I was asked not to give out the name, (e-mail) address and/or telephone numbers.

I hope you will look after the BPSA sites on Wikipedia for us. I have enclosed some information on Ireland and some information on BPSA UK (a message from the President of the Baden Powell Scouts). For the Baden Powell Scouts UK site – can you please remove details to the overseas branches – (United States, Canada and Austrailia) as a lot of this information is inaccurate and I have our international Commissioner working on writing up some information for you on this section. Currently two new websites are being made under my guidance to be unveiled in September. There has been a lot of work placed into them – the two sites will be www.traditionalscouting.ie for Ireland www.traditionalscouting.co.uk for UK Here is some information on BPSA Ireland & BPSA UK which I hope you will find answers all the questions, but if you have any further queries do contact me. Ireland History and details The Baden Powell Scouts Association of Ireland is Ireland's only Traditional Scout Association. We are not connected to any political or military organisation. We are an independent Scout Association, and are proud members of the World Federation of Independent Scouts. This is a World body that recognises Independent Scouts Associations in countries across the globe that teach Traditional Baden Powell Scouting values. Scouting is a system of education. According to our founder, The aim of Scouting is to improve the standard of our future citizens with the object of using that effiency for service for their fellow men. Traditional Scouting refers to the original principles set down in 'Scouting for Boys' written by Lord Robert Baden Powell, Chief Scout of the World. 'Tradition' is defined as 'knowledge transmitted from generation to generation' - In Scouting, once a Scout is invested Baden Powell believed they would continue to live to the 10 Scout Laws. These laws are kept by Scouts from the age of 10 to Adult Leaders who must renew their promise on regular occassions. The Baden Powell Scouts Association of Ireland hold the ideals of Scouting that were created by our founder. The history of our association dates back to the foundations of Scouting in the UK in 1908. Our Association used the same badge system, ranks and uniform that were worn by Scouts nearly 100 years ago. We follow a charter set down in our Policy Association Rules. We have no paid Executive Staff or Leaders. Troops in our Association believe that the original Scouting programme practised in BPSA Ireland is more exciting, fun, challenging and personally demanding. The traditonal programme also develops a sense of duty, personal discipline and honour. Some dont see these matters as important but we do! Our Scouts enjoy the traditional Scouting skills, lighting fire by friction, navigating by means other than a compass and backwoods cooking, like shown above. The World Organisation of Scout Movement only accept one member association per country and as such we are affiliated to the world wide family known as The World Federation of Independent Scouts. We are affiliated with many other Traditional Scout Association's around the world and proud members of the WFIS. BP Scouts of Ireland is not in competition with any other Scouting Association. We do not make claims to be superior, and we do not seek to influence the policies of any of the other Scout Associations. We have a policy of goodwill and co-operation with any Scouting organisation of like minded intent. (4th Scout Law). We are proud as an Association to be upholding Lord Baden-Powell's ideals, and his original programs, proving that his planning and foresight still holds true into the future. The Baden Powell Scouts of Ireland still hold to many of the early traditions of Scouting. The boys also still have great pride in their traditional uniform. We believe in Scouting as our founder envisaged, and it was from these ideals that a group of leaders, and Scouts came to form the BP Scouts of Ireland, having previously been known as the Independent Scout Organisation called The Christian Boy Scouts of Ireland. We invite all to discover the exciting programmes for youth recorded by our founder. While our association has tried to keep the values of 'Scouting for Boys' - our association has followed laws with regards to child protection. We have a chartered child protection policy for all our association and a child protection officer. BADEN POWELL SCOUTS UNITED KINGDOM – MESSAGE FROM PRESIDENT Hello and welcome to the official website of the Baden Powell Scouts. The Baden Powell Scouts Association is an independent Scout Association with membership in the World Federation of Independent Scouts. The history of the Baden Powell Scouts Association dates back to the foundations of Scouting in 1907. In 2007 we will celebrate 100 years of Traditional Scouting. Over 60 years ago my army pal was so daft on scouting he roped me into the Cubs. I had no idea what I was letting myself in for and had no ideas of Cubs or Scouts. I have been involved in the Baden Powell Scouts since 1970. Without admitting my age I could be classed as the oldest active member in the association but as Baden Powell said “Scouting is a game with a purpose”. I have no decision to give up the game I love. I may be greying but I haven’t lost my hair or the love in teaching youth the values of Scouting. My fondest days of being involved in BP Scouting have been my 50th year when I took my Scout Troop the 1st Yorkshire BP Scouts to Canada for a month. The Patrol Leader's of the troop were so good the following year I took them on a Tour of the USA and later to South Africa. On the 27th May 2007 I shall have completed 60 years as a Warranted Scouter having started by forming a Cub and Scout Group in 1947 in Wuppertal Germany with all German boys! I have yet to decide what I shall do for the 60th year as a Scouter! But I know it will be something to remember as will 2007 the 100th year of Traditional Scouting. We have kept to our values in educating the youth of the values of Scouting that our founder Baden Powell envisaged. Traditional is not old fashioned, Traditional Scouting is quality Scouting. Though I’m still an active Scout I know the future of Scouting and Baden Powell Scouting is in the Leaders of today and the Scouts who we teach who I hope will become the Leaders of tomorrow. Thanks for visiting the site. If you are considering joining Scouts I hope this is your first step into the wonderful game, and I hope to hear from you soon. Lawrie Dring, President of the Baden Powell Scouts Association I am the IT officer for the Baden Powell Scouts. Could you explain to me - hopefully more broken down about Wikipedia. I understand its an online encyclopedia that visitors can edit? I notice for both BPSA - UK and Baden Powell Scouts of Ireland, the details are very sketchy and I don't know who gave Wikipedia permission for the Baden Powell Scouts Association. I would like to take control of the Baden Powell Scouts of Ireland and maintain that it is accurate. By agreeing to a contract are we in control of the information?

Jorgenpfhartogs 04:54, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] another edit

Just added some more edits that will not offend any of the organisations. the BPSA and BPSA Ireland are both members of WFIS – In fact Lawrie Dring the president of BPSA is one of the founding fathers of the WFIS in Laubach Germany.As for the overseas branches I will get information to you hopefully by the end of the week.Just a couple of things on the BPSA site on Wikipedia:The organisation shares the heritage of the youth Scouting Movement, but was formed in the United Kingdom in 1970 when it was felt that the "modernisation" of the Scout Movement was abandoning the traditions and intentions established by Lord Baden-Powell in 1907. The Baden-Powell Scouts retain the belief that essence of the movement should be based on outdoor activities related to the skills of explorers, backwoodsmen and frontiersmen.Yes all this paragraph is true – but can we change this and just leave it as The organisation shares the heritage of the youth Scouting Movement, in the UK and next year will cellebrate 100 years of Scouting.We just think time and time again this remark of what is now deemed as history of 1970 brings up politics in Scouting in the present.I understand the sites must be neutral but I think those adjustments are fair comment. At times Jorgen we have been described as a “splinter group of SA” or in Ireland we are a “splinter group of SI” – which is clearly not the case. Were simply an independent traditional scouting movement that is moving forward and looking forward to what to do for the next 100 years!Despite the name, BPSA was never sanctioned by Baden-Powell himself. In fact, while he was alive, he always objected to national associations using his name in their denomination (he only allowed one exception to this rule), and strongly opposed any similar association not linked to his own (see his relationship with Sir Francis Vane).Yes it was never sanctioned by BP himself as he wasn’t alive =P but the association did get permission to use his name from a familly member who strongly supported the Baden Powell Scouts. I shall get yoou further information on this also (I have the details I just want to make sure they are correct!) But in the 70’s the name was approved by a family member.

Jorgenpfhartogs 08:09, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] message from the BPSA president

BADEN POWELL SCOUTS UNITED KINGDOM – MESSAGE FROM PRESIDENT

Hello and welcome to the official website of the Baden Powell Scouts. The Baden Powell Scouts Association is an independent Scout Association with membership in the World Federation of Independent Scouts.

The history of the Baden Powell Scouts Association dates back to the foundations of Scouting in 1907. In 2007 we will celebrate 100 years of Traditional Scouting.

Over 60 years ago my army pal was so daft on scouting he roped me into the Cubs. I had no idea what I was letting myself in for and had no ideas of Cubs or Scouts.

I have been involved in the Baden Powell Scouts since 1970. Without admitting my age I could be classed as the oldest active member in the association but as Baden Powell said “Scouting is a game with a purpose”. I have no decision to give up the game I love. I may be greying but I haven’t lost my hair or the love in teaching youth the values of Scouting.

My fondest days of being involved in BP Scouting have been my 50th year when I took my Scout Troop the 1st Yorkshire BP Scouts to Canada for a month. The Patrol Leader's of the troop were so good the following year I took them on a Tour of the USA and later to South Africa.

On the 27th May 2007 I shall have completed 60 years as a Warranted Scouter having started by forming a Cub and Scout Group in 1947 in Wuppertal Germany with all German boys!

I have yet to decide what I shall do for the 60th year as a Scouter! But I know it will be something to remember as will 2007 the 100th year of Traditional Scouting.

We have kept to our values in educating the youth of the values of Scouting that our founder Baden Powell envisaged. Traditional is not old fashioned, Traditional Scouting is quality Scouting.

Though I’m still an active Scout I know the future of Scouting and Baden Powell Scouting is in the Leaders of today and the Scouts who we teach who I hope will become the Leaders of tomorrow.

Thanks for visiting the site. If you are considering joining Scouts I hope this is your first step into the wonderful game, and I hope to hear from you soon.

Lawrie Dring,

President of the Baden Powell Scouts Association

Jorgenpfhartogs 08:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] question by BPSA

I've also been asked by the BPSA to forward further questions to them. I can give out the e-mail address for the IT-officer which is rachel@badenpowellscoutsireland.com. He (not a she) is IT officer and main point for communication for BPSA UK and Ireland. Jorgenpfhartogs 08:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not an advertising forum for outside organizations. While I think an outside organization providing input is okay to a point and I think some of these changes actually made are fine, I think others are too POV and look like advertising. I'd also suggest stop forwarding questions to them unless there is a real need for clarification. It sounds to me like they're trying to control wikipedia's content.Rlevse 11:38, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge of Ireland

Unless the Ireland article can be made into high-end B-class article or above and have a good share of content different from the BPS article, I'd merge these.Rlevse 12:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I would agree now. It seems like BPSA is almost exclusively actie in UK, Ireland, US, Canada and Australia with BPSA UK and Ireland more or less being the same I suggest one article for BPSA with subsections for UK, Ireland, US, Canada and Australia.

Jorgenpfhartogs 12:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal

You have the portal tag in two places, it should only be in one. Per the portal template policy, it should be in see also, but if you really want it at the top, I personally don't care. Rlevse 20:16, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I've edited it and will leave it in See also. I'll add Canada and US later. The article on BPSA Ireland can be deleted since all info is alreay here. Can you tell me how to mark it for deletion?

Jorgenpfhartogs 20:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

put this at the top of the main article page (but use no spaces except in the reason as if I do that here, it'll mark this page for deletion): { db | reason for deletion }
or, use #REDIRECT [[Baden-Powell Scouts]], as I did there. Chris 21:59, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Chris and Rlevse, thank you both for your help. I hope the article is up to standard now.

Please let me know if you want something edited. Canada, Argentina and US will added soon. Jorgenpfhartogs 22:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review

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[edit] Sanction

Which independent sources do we have to support the claim that at least one family member of B.-P. encouraged them to use their family name? --Lou Crazy 04:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'd also like to know a name/date. Banaticus 06:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I think I'll remove that claim if there is no source support for it, then --Lou Crazy 02:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
OK with me. Rlevse 09:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Membership

i see that BPSA seem very keen to push themselves and help, have they been forthcoming with membership figures? I haven't seen any in the article... Stevecull 21:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Activity in Australia

The Australia BPSA web page has the national organiser down as the contact for Western Australia, Victoria, Tasmania and the Northern Territory. It does not therefore look as if they are active in all those States and Territories so the statement in the article that they are needs a proper source. Also the contact for the ACT is the same as that for New South Wales, so activity in the ACT and NSW needs sourcing also. --Bduke 23:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] United States

This article has the category Scouting in the United States, however, the United States is not mentioned in the article. --Jagz 17:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

There is certainly stuff to add. See the mention of "1st Tarrant Group, Fort Worth" in Scout Promise. However, I think someone in Fort Worth needs to check it is is still active. --Bduke 22:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
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