Talk:Ayyavazhi and Hinduism
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[edit] These sections confuse me
Hindu's view Vedas, rather than the Akilam, as Books of Perfection. Ayyavazhi also believe they were, at one point, but feel they were corrupted by later, and that Kaliyan bought the Vedas as a Boon and so all the Previous religious books including Agamas and Puranas lost their Substances. Also there are several dubious claims that the present day Vedas are not accepted by Ayyavazhi as books of Perfection because there is a quote in Akilam about Venneesan “Avan pilathaal vedamondruntakki” (He created a Veda of his own intention). Some also claim that it was the christian Bible which was mentioned in this way. In sum, all previous religious texts were lost their Substance in the vision of Ayyavazhi at the very moment Kaliyan came to the world.
[edit] From Vaikunda Avatar
This was due to the torture of a Pantaram (Vaikundar), tortured because he had promised to Thirumal that he did not harm any Pantaram.
[edit] From Trimurthi
Regarding Vaikunda Avatharam, Ayya Vaikundar is superior to the three because the Moolamoorthy or Paramathma, superior to Trimuthi is that who incarnates as Vaikundar, but in Hinduism it was Vishnu who incarnates.
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Can you reword them, or explain in more detail? ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 01:21, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Vedas
First of all apologies for the act.Because further information about this may seems blaming other religions. Sorry for that.
In Akilam there is a quote about Venneesan“Avan pilathaal vedamondruntakki” (He created a Veda of his own intention). On the view of Akilam, the center of Origin of Human beings is India. It seems from the verses of Akilam that the first race is Santror, born south of Kanyakumari which is now inside the sea. The next race the kaliyan. The facts told about Kaliyan and his wife Kalicchi in Akilam seems to be similar to Adam and Eve.The place of his origin is disputed, while many claims that it was enywhere but only inside India.Anyway that cannot be confirmed.Then the Vennessan (Wicked White) .He born to Kaliyan in Kasi.see Ayyavazhi mythology.
On describing it,mostly it was accepted that the Kaliyan was the ancestor of the Black human race of the world and Venneesan the ancestor of the White race.You might have known that both the semitic race as well as the aryan race were of White race. There are several quotes, in which it seems similar to both this races.A quote "He will say that there is a religion of Cross" seems regarding semitic race and several quotes says that, he will say that "There is no one in this world to oppose me" which seems to be noting the Aryan Superiority Theory of The Aryans. This is the reason that many says that this it either Bible or Vedas.
Then it says that before the age of Kaliyan and Venneesan there were Vedas and they were Books of Perfection. Santror was the only race in the world.Accordingly the present day Vedas were created by Veneesan. Anyway this view of Bible and Vedas may not be concluded, but just a viewbacked up by quotations.
Other thing to present, Vaikundar says during the Kaduvai Sothanai that, "Iam the one who, for the uplift of the subaltern, died in the cross and rise on the third day. " By this quote it may be concluded that Akilam was not opposing Christ. Also it accepts the concept of Allah but inturn rejects the religion of Islam. A quote reads "The one who think that Nabi is Allah will suffer" and also "Nothing would happen without Allah" (here Allah is used in the term of Nirguna Brahman).Both this religions were Abrahamic and focus to a similar concept.
I think that It accept Christ as well as Allah. But the religion based ideas upon them were rejected. It says that the things told in their texts were not true. They wrote with their own intention (in the way as they like and they view) , by the quote " He created a Veda(in tamil veda means 'any religious script')of his own intention".OHH! Iam far away from the topic. Once again apologies for blaming others. - Vaikunda Raja.
[edit] Reply for 'From Trimurthi'
First of all keep in mind the three facts, the Spirit, the Soul and the Body. Vaikunda Avatar is a combination of the spirit of Narayana, Soul of the Ultimate God, and body of an ordinary human being.
In Akilam, Thiruvasakam - 2 says about the formation of Universe. It says that "In the biggining when Ekam changed as param, a voice 'immm' formed, from which a Satthu formed. Then formed the Sivam followed by Sakthi and from that Sakthi a Natham formed and then Vishnu then Brahma and then Sivan and so on.."
On saying about that Ayyavazhi says about an Ultimate formless God, (Ultimate Oneness).And then this ultimate being divide in to two, a Mass and an Energy. On the other hand also mean that a positive creative force and a negative creative force, called Sivam and Sakthi.Then both combine to form the murthi stage, as Siva, Brahma and Vishnu. So according to Akilam, beyond the trimurthi there is an ultimate being.
Now comming to the point the Soul of this Ultimate being is that which incarnates as Vaikundar with the Spirit of Vishnu, one Among Murthis. Also, Trimurthi remains seperate after the Incarnation Of Vaikundar. There are also quotes in Akilam stating that Power of Vaikundar is Beyond that of Trimurthis. On the other hand Sivan and Brahma rests by surrendering their power to Vishnu, because kaliyan was created unlike the other aruras, without in discussion with Thirumal. Vishnu as spirit was in side Vaikundar but the soul of Vaikundar is of the Ultimate Being. The soul of Vaikundar is of the Ultimate God similar to Nirguna Brahman. Hence it was stated "Ayya Vaikundar is superior to the three because the Moolamoorthy or Paramathma, superior to Trimuthi is that who incarnates as Vaikundar, but in Hinduism it was Vishnu who incarnates." - Vaikunda Raja.
[edit] Reply for 'From Vaikunda Avatar'
"He was called Neesan ("neesa" in Tamil could mean wickedness), being the epitome of wickedness. Having obtained innumerable boons (see Boons), including the Chakra of Mayon and invincibility, he proceeded to earth to rule over the people. On his way, he was accosted by Thirumal who appeared as a Pantaram, (an itinerant mendicant), with long flowing unkempt hair and torn clothes. Thirumal challenged him to a duel, which Neesan refused, considering it below his dignity to fight with a Pantaram coming in such an attire without any weapon. Taking the opportune moment, Thirumal shrewdly made Neesan promise to forfeit all his boons if any of his lies caused any trouble to any Pantaram on earth in the future. Then he bought the Chakra from Kaliyan and cursed it as money. The money asked Thirumal when this curse would leave it, to which Thirumal replied: "It will leave you when Kali is defeated". " from Ayyavazhi mythology - Vaikunda Raja.
[edit] Nabi
Nabi means Mohammed Nabi. The term 'Allah' (the term used by muslims to mention God) was accepted by Akilam by the quote, "Nothing would happen without Allah." By here, Akilam views the term 'Allah' in equivalent to Ekam or Nirguna Brahman. In other words, it says that the term Allah mentions the same thing which was called Ekam. Also in other words What is Ekam that is Allah.
But by the quote,"The one who think that Nabi is Allah will suffer" it rejects the theory proposed by Mohhamed Nabi. Perhaps the translation of the quote is not right. Let me put in other words, "On the way of seeking for Allah, those who follow Mohhammed Nabi will Suffer." (i.e)Akilam says that, The concept used for mentioning Allah, by Nabi is not right.That is, what Nabi is telling about Allah is far away from Allah.
This is the same in the case of Bible, viewed by Akilam. It accepts Christ, but oppose the theory or religious concept proposed by Bible or the religion of Christianity. It says that they had created it with their own Intention. (i.e) They created it in the way by which they view. But it was not right. That is, what they were telling about God or may be Christ is far away from him. - Vaikunda Raja.
