Talk:Axe Murder Incident

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Copied from the discussion page of Operation Paul Bunyon>>>>> Bobo12345 05:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] This article needs major work

This article needs major work. I thought to start it out since it seems to be very interesting. I want to askhttp://members.terracom.net/~vfwpost/opn-PB.html if we could use his pictures, but I'm pressed for time. -James --68.80.190.94 20:21, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

This artical needs contents on NK side of the story.

So are you willing to volunteer to go to North Korea and get their side of the story?

Lol, haha.
I know the guy who took most of those pictures of Operation Paul Bunyan. I'll email him and ask for permission.
wbfergus 17:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Here's the text of an email I just received, per the above:
"Knock yourself out. I won't object.
Also, Kirkbride gives permission for us to use his stuff ... just in case you want to use it. He is living in Korea right now.
So, the pictures are free to use... BTW, Kirkbride is the author of the VFW site.
wbfergus wbfergus 20:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] duplicate info

the Panmunjom Tree has its own non-wikied article, someone should merge them maybe? Cornellrockey 17:11, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] My memories of "The Incident"

I had 36 days left in Korea when the incident happened.

Panmunjom - the "Peace Village" - has a series of watch towers. On the South side the watch towers are designed such that they can see / monitor each other. For example, tower #2 can see tower #1 and tower #3. The tree in question was in the North Korean side but it was obstructing the view between two towers from the Allied Command.

The Allied command informed the North Koreans several times that they were going to prune the tree. The North Koreans kept saying "no you're not!" and, finally, the day came to prune the tree. The Americans used a contingent of civilian Koreans to do the actual work and two officers (Capt. Arthur Bonifas and 1st Lt. Mark Barrett) as escort. It is worth noting that the North Korean soldiers, armed with axes, only attacked the US soldiers and left the civilian South Koreans alone.

After the attack, the response from the US forces was pretty swift and decisive. All of the 2nd Infantry Division was put on alert and went to the DMZ (De-Militarized Zone). All other combat units of the US military in Korea were put on war footing (DEFCON 1) but were not mobilized. The air force flexed its its muscles by bringing B-52's from Guam, F-111's from the US mainland; the navy sent the USS Midway (aircraft carrier) from Japan. I cannot confirm this but, at the time, the scuttlebutt was that the B-52's and the F-111's were carrying nuclear weapons.

We did receive intelligence that North Korea had requested help to the USSR and China but they essentially told the North Koreans "you're on your own." After that, the North Korean airspace was very quiet!

When time came to take care of the infamous tree, the information we were given was that we were going to go in and rip the tree off "...and if they shoot one bullet, its on!" At the same time that the Americans were ripping the tree out, a contingent of South Korean Special Forces, dressed as civilians, was standing by "just in case." We had as hard a time keeping the South Koreans from starting something as we had keeping the North Koreans from escalating further! --George casablanca 04:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Very interesting. Thanks, George. --Dhartung | Talk 03:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Damn, we should've invaded, if they weren't getting any help from the China and Russia.--KrossTalk 12:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the story - this is the some of the content that really adds to Wikipedia, IMHO! Vedek Wren 05:33, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] death by axe or truck

It's not clear of the deaths were caused by the axe or the truck.

<<<<<Copy end Bobo12345 05:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I'm addressing several points with other discussions and the article itself. Parts I could edit directly (in the article), but other points I'm not sure how to properly word it. I'll leave that to somebody else who is more articulate.

Capt. Bonifas was actually killed by a 'karate chop' to the back of the neck by Lt. (Bulldog) Pak Chol. After the North Koreans (KPA) picked up the axes dropped by the KSC civilians, several of them used them to begin chopping on Capt. Bonifas, until his body was covered by the truck.

Lt. Barrett had jumped a low wall which lead down (about 15 ft.) into a tree filled depression (visiblity from the top was nil). Lt. Barrett was chased by several KPA guards into the depression and died there. The actual 'fight' only took a few minutes, and the UNC (American and South Korean)personnel evacuated the area without Lt. Barrett, since nobody saw him go into the depression. However, the people working at Observation Post (OP) #5, where the video was taken from, observed KPA guards from a checkpoint next to the depression taking turns going into the depression with an axe. One would go down with the axe and a couple of minutes later would climb back out and hand the axe to another guard who would then repeat the process. This continued for almost 90 minutes before a security contingent was sent to investigate, at which time Lt. Barrett's body was found and recovered. Almost every square inch of his body was cut up.

The tree was originally scheduled to be trimmed on Aug. 12th when my platoon was supposed to be working, and I was scheduled to be on the detail. However, it was raining hard that day so it was delayed until the 18th, which was my platoon's day off.

At the time, we worked a 72-hour 'shift' which consisted of 24 hours within the JSA, from 8am one morning until 8am the next morning. We would then head back to Camp Kitty Hawk (renamed to Camp Bonifas 10 years later), just outside the DMZ fence for breakfast and a change of clothes, then we would head back to the Day Quick Reaction Force (QRF) site. We stayed there until (usually) 4pm. We were on QRF duty until 5pm, but we would usually leave about 4pm so that we could run (exercise) back to Camp Kitty Hawk. We then were off for 24 hours, from 5pm until 5pm the next night, at which time we were then on Night QRF duty until 8am the next morning when we started back in the JSA again.

Regarding the UNC personnel in the area at the time. Each side (UNC and KPA) was allowed only 30 enlisted personnel and two officers inside the JSA at any one time who could be armed with a sidearm (pistol). At no time were rifles or machineguns allowed in the JSA, though occasionally we saw the KPA unloading them when they would open their checkpoints in the morning. The area where the 'fight' took place was surrounded by three occupied KPA checkpoints, two had AK-47's and the third (about 500 meters away) had a .51 cal. machinegun (I saw it numerous times during my 13 months), all of which had clear fields of fire to CP#3 where the 'fight' occured. The UNC only had OP#5 which could observe CP#3, at a distance of about 250-300 meters, and only armed with .45 cal pistols. Each UNC/JSA member at the 'fight' was armed with their sidearm, and the mattocks were in the back of the 2 1/2 ton truck at the scene. The personnel were not standing around carrying them, per JSA policy.

Since this was 1976, only 23 years after the Armistice was signed, all of the KPA guards selected to work at the JSA were orphans who were raised being told that their parents had been killed by Americans during the Korean War. Hence, they all had an extreme hatred of Americans.

I have some 'stuff' of my own at JSA Stuff

Not quite sure how end this correctly, but here goes.

wbfergus 13:55, 26 November 2006 (UTC)wbfergus

[edit] Article re-arranged

I've created a new article for the Axe Murder Incident and copied across the content from the former Operation Paul Bunyan (OPB) article. It seemed odd to me that no Axe Murder Article existed, and since OPB would not have taken place without it, I reorganised the articles so that they are the other way around, with OPB mentioned as a part of the Axe Murder Incident. Bobo12345 05:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please delete

I'm a clumsy Wikipedia newbie and I didn't know about the Move function and tried to do it all by hand! Sorry! I intend to delete this page and Move it from the Operation Paul Bunyan article, once this has been deleted. 61.209.194.166 is my IP by the way, so it is only I who has made changes to this article. Bobo12345 06:17, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Now fixed, no problem. Titoxd(?!?) 07:33, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language Box

I disagree with the placing of the large, layout-disruptive multi-translation box, and have reverted it pending discussion (please see previous edits for the box).

I consider this is a rather inelegant way of placing information into the article which I consider of secondary importance (especially seeing that one translation was already nicely inline). If such a box was added to all articles about a thematic that happened in a non-Englisch-speaking country or was named in foreign languages in addition to English, it will end up producing substantial clutter on Wikipedia. MadMaxDog 06:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation junkies

How to handle the needs/requests of citation junkies, those that want everything cited? Many different parts of this article are referenced in the refences cited, but it's impossible to cite each and every sentence somebody wants cited, if it's already been cited once isn't it? Or is there some way to globally signify to the citation junkies that if they read the references the citation they need/want is there? Or is it already "assumed", that once an article has a reference to something/someplace, that it (can) apply elsewhere in the article as well? wbfergus 14:40, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Wbfergus, the article is well cited. Sometimes, for particular statements (like the "This tree planted by Kim-Il-Sung", where I placed the fact tag myself) it is nice to directly place appropriate inline citations. Same for anything which is contentious. But apart from that - no worries. Just leave it as it is, and don't try to overdo it.
As for multi-citations - have a look at current reference #1. That shows how to use one source for citations at multiple places in the article. Cheers, MadMaxDog 22:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I was refering to yesterday when somebody with just an IP address deleted part of a sentence and wanted a source for it, though it is mentioned on several of the references cited elsewhere. Thanks for pointing out though how to do a multi-cite. I hadn't noticed that before. wbfergus 23:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Nomination

I nominate this article to be merged with Bridge of No Return, because some of the content is copied nearly verbatim from that article, and this article could be shortened to section-length without any loss of value. Vedek Wren 05:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why the Bridge of No Return page should be merged with this. Just because the Axe-Murder Incident occurred near the bridge doesn't mean that the information should be in the same article. The Axe Murder Incident was an event, the Bridge is a location. If anything, the Bridge article could be merged with the Joint Security Area article, but I don't think it's necessary - they just need synchronising. Bobo12345 08:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Oppose the idea totally, as per Bobo12345. In fact, Bridge of No Return should be condensed instead, though not merged into this one either. MadMaxDog 11:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I'd be opposed to it as well. I know I could add (and plan on adding) a lot more information to both the Joint Security Area and this article as well. If I can get some of my old Army buddies motivated enough to log on here, they can help add more information to the three articles also. Since we were there, it would really help to get more than just my input on the three articles. The reason they seem to have the same information about something like the Bridge of No Return is to me it makes no sense (and looks terrible) if the information conflicts between articles. I don't mind a repeat of the same information, but seeing opposing or otherwise conflicting information about the same thing in different articles looks bad. wbfergus 19:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
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