Talk:Australian English
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[edit] "History"
I made a few changes to the History section. It placed too much importance on convict origins, vaguely suggesting that almost the entire Australian immigrant population was convicts, and making no reference to the other settlers who came along with the convicts.
I also think there is too much emphasis placed on "Cockney" origins. In terms of vocabulary there is very little in the way of genuine Cockneyisms in Australian English, in terms of pronunciation AuE uses intervocalic /d/ where Cockney uses a glottal stop, AuE does not drop initial /h/, no changing of /θ/ to /f/ (maths = mafs), or [ð] for /v/ (bother = bovver), the list goes on.
Finally, I also removed the sentence "Since that time, Australian English, has borrowed increasingly from external sources." The word "borrowed" seems to be referring only to vocabulary, rather than general influences that the previous paragraphs were attempting to cover. (Also, it ignores the fact that in terms of vocabulary AuE not only borrows from other Englishes (mostly North American), but also creates its own neologisms.) If this sentence was changed to "Since that time, Australian English, has been increasingly influenced from external sources" - well, that wouldn't be right either. Like all other Englishes, external influences are only of minor significance once the variety has a life of its own within its own culture.WikiLambo 20:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)James Lambert
- I suspect that 19th century Broad AE speakers were a lot more like Cockney. Possibly the best example of this is C. J. Dennis's The Sentimental Bloke (1915), in which Dennis features phonetic representations of working class Melbourne dialogue, e.g.
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- This ev'nin' I was sittin' wiv Doreen,
- Peaceful an' 'appy wiv the day's work done,
- Watchin', be'ind the orchard's bonzer green,
- The flamin' wonder of the settin' sun.
- Even the /h/ in "behind" is dropped. Dennis was born and bred in Auburn, South Australia.
- Grant | Talk 07:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Microsoft
- To Jimp: May I suggest the removal of the Microsoft reference in this section
- I feel the statement "especially Microsoft's spellchecker" may be unfounded. From my usage of the spell checker it provides the words commonly used in Australia. If the statement is founded it should also be noted that Microsoft has only had dominance for approximately 15 years. What about the other word processors such as WordPerfect and Multimate.
- Could Jimp please explain the basis for the statement. (I tried to raise this thought with Jimp directly but currently my knowledge of using Wikipedia is not sufficient.) Audictionary 21:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
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- Only 15 years ... but a significant 15 years when it comes to word processors. Compare pre-1990s the use of word processors to the use since.
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- Anyhow ... Wikipedia policy is to only have included that which is varifiable. Therefore if the statement about Microsoft's spellchecker is unfounded then it should be removed. I don't know that I can adequately explain the basis for the statement ... but I'm not the one who made it.
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- I would note, however, that, as far as I'm aware, Word's default is US English even when the software was bought in Australia. Of course, the settings can be changed but will everyone be bothered or even know how? These are just my speculations though and nor do speculations have any place in articles.
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- One way of getting in contact with another user is to go to their user page. Usually you can get there by clicking on the person's name. My user page is User:Jimp. Leave a message on the person's talk page. Mine's User talk:Jimp.
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- Also it's usual to add new sections to the end of a talk page under an appropriate title ... otherwise your comment might be overlooked for several months (sorry about that). You can make the title by putting text between two pairs of equals signs (or more or fewer depending on the level of title you want). The easy way to add a new section, though, is to click on the plus sign between Edit this page and History at the top of the page. Jimp 08:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
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- This particular problem is not Word's default. It is the Windows operating system Regional settings that need to be set correctly. If set correctly Word's default for Australia will be the Australian English dictionary.
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- Is it Microsoft's fault the computer suppliers do not set the computers up correctly?
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- It doesn't hurt to speculate. There is always someone somewhere, who may be able to clarify.
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- I too think Microsoft could have done a better job. The user interface repeatedly displays American spelling. But can I blame them for American spelt words having used MS software for a few decades. I still can't find a concrete example where I can. Sorry.Audictionary 11:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Australian English spell check files
Hi,
I would like to suggest a link to JustLocal (http://www.JustLocal.com.au) be added to the external links section.
This article is an example of why the work I do is important.
To quote from the "Spelling" section of the article, "In academia, as long as the spelling is consistent, the usage of various English variants is generally accepted."
Has anyone noticed "Americanism" and "Americanizm" both used in the article.
To my knowledge only the dictionary files I produce for Australian users in the form of the "kelvin" version of the files, and the Microsoft Exclude file, helps Australian's avoid this very common issue.
The Australian English dictionary spell check files can be accessed via the links at the bottom of the JustLocal page for OpenOffice.org, Firefox/Thunderbird, Microsoft Word.
The files now provide writers with invaluable tools to not only spell check when using Desktop programs, but also when using browsers such as Internet Explorer, Firefox 2 and Opera.
I hope my work is of assistance to others.
Regards - Kelvin Eldridge Audictionary 21:21, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Yeah - No"
Does anyone have sources on the use of this new Australianism - I hear it alllllll the time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Just nigel (talk • contribs) 11:20, 21 November 2006.
- The Macquarie dictionary. No Australianism, just the words used by more Australians.
- Thank you for the comment - Kelvin. Audictionary 21:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
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- To Just nigel: I don't notice hearing "Yeah - no" very much in person. I notice on television that Jim Richards says it, but he's a New Zealander who just lives in Australia. Not sure if that proves it's local to only some regions. --Scott Davis Talk 11:48, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
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- It depends where you come from. It is exceptionally popular in Queensland, and it is infiltrating W.A. and S.A., and not having been much to Vic, can't say. It is definitely around. I'm not sure if it's a kiwi thing in its entirety, but I do hear kiwis saying it a fair bit over here in W.A.. And it spreads easily. Yeah, nah. is probably more the correct pronunciation in my opinion.Rolinator 23:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] The meaning of "Waltzing Matilda"
I thought that "Waltzing Matilda" could mean "go travelling" or "hang", and in several lines of the song it was referring to hanging (the sentence for stealing sheep), which is why the song is sung with a sad air. http://www.mamalisa.com/?p=53&t=es&c=19 Sad mouse 15:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] /aː/ and /æ/
I don't think it is fair to say /aː/ is preferred in New South Wales, where in my experience (and that of at others I know, including linguists) there is quite a clear distinction between different words. I am a bit sceptical about the Crystal 1995 figures for Sydney, but even the Crystal figures show that the th eplace where /aː/ is most preferred is Adelaide. Would anyone object to changing "New South Wales" to "South Australia"? JPD (talk) 17:14, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
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- The Received Pronunciation style Chahnce, plahnt et al. is famously associated with South Australia and Adelaide rather than New South Wales. While I suspect there are some cultivated speakers in most regions that favour this pronunciation, Adeliade is the place where it is the norm. Asa01 01:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I totally agree with the two editors above. i have lived in Sydney all my life and have always prounounced such words as chance, advance and branch with the æ sound. There is, however, a difference between the New South Wales and Victorian pronunciation of "castle". Hence the contrasting vowels used for Newcastle in New South Wales and Castlemaine in Victoria.Michael Glass 07:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
- This is definitely the case. And Tasmania has been shown to have the greatest use of /æ/. The Victorian "a" and "e" merger is a slightly different issue and is also well-known. Grant | Talk 08:46, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Why is this here?
I feel that this paragraph should not be in this article:
An important aspect of Australian English usage, inherited in large part from Britain and Ireland, is the use of deadpan humour, in which a person will make extravagant, outrageous and/or ridiculous statements in a neutral tone, and without explicitly indicating they are joking. Tourists seen to be gullible and/or lacking a sense of humour may be subjected to tales of kangaroos hopping across the Sydney Harbour Bridge, "drop bears" and similar tall tales.
It has nothing to do with linguistics, the use of words, terminology or accent, which is what this article is about. Trying to shoehorn it into this article by claiming it is an "important aspect of Australian English usage" seems pretty dodgy. In any event, the para itself then says the same thing also happens in Britain in Ireland (though I suspect that this sort of thing occurs in many nations to varying extents.) Asa01 07:36, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
- I put back part of the para you deleted ie An important aspect of Australian English usage, inherited in large part from Britain and Ireland, is the use of deadpan humour, in which a person will make extravagant, outrageous and/or ridiculous statements in a neutral tone, and without explicitly indicating they are joking. which seems to me to be entirely relevant to the section. Albatross2147 12:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
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- OK then. I didn't think it was really a language issue myself, more cultural. I was going to move the whole thing to the deadpan humour article but on reading that I felt such a move would just add redundancy to it. Asa01 19:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Youse
Is "youse" as the plural second person really an Irish influence? I hear it most from 2nd-3rd generation Australians of Italian and Greek descent. Any ideas how to find an appropriate reference? --Scott Davis Talk 04:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Victor Harbor
The Victor Harbour station has historically been spelt with the U in harbour. Harbour with out the U is the official current spelling according to the SA government. The spelling with the U reflects official SA Railways policy of using 'correct' spelling. I have an ammonia transfer plan of the station dating from the 1950's. This is spelt with the U. I also have plans of the railway yards etc from the 1920's and earlier also spelt with the U. Personal photographs of the station from the early 80's alos show the U in the name. If you drive around Victor Harbor you will find many older buildings with the U in the name. It seems the dropping of the U is a more modern phenomenon. The article wrongly suggests the addition of the U back into harbour is a modern idea, this is wrong. Ozdaren 11:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
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- I suppose that the mapmaker referred to in the council snippet thought the place was pretty non-U Albatross2147 08:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
- Haha, that's quite amusing. I'd never heard of that before. I'm mostly non-U. Ozdaren 12:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
