Talk:Australia at the 1896 Summer Olympics

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Portal	Australia at the 1896 Summer Olympics is maintained by WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
Start	This article has been rated as start-class on the quality scale.
Low	This article has been rated as low-importance on the importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Australian sports.
Assessment comments This article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Olympics. For more information, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.	Olympics Portal
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale.
Mid	This article is on a subject of Mid priority within inclusion in Wikipedia 1.0.
Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments here to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it will need.
Olympics To-do: edit  The assessment department of the Olympics WikiProject needs your help assessing articles! If this article is unassessed, please assess it. See the instructions for more information on how to help, or go to the project's discussion page if you have a doubt on a rating.

[edit] Flack

Because Flack had lived and would later live in Victoria, Australians have claimed him as their first Olympic competitor. But Australia as a nation did not exist until 1901-01-01. I have therefore replaced references to Flack being a competitor from or for Australia. He was, in name and in fact, a competitor for the UK. Peter, 2006-07-01.

The IOC website (see, e.g., the medallist database here -- Do a search for name=Flack OlympicGames=Athens1896) and the Official Report (Lampros et al. in the References section of this article) both list Flack as Australian rather than British. Subnational entities being represented as separate teams at the Olympics is not unusual; for example, the British Virgin Islands are not independent of the UK but send a separate team. -- Jonel | Speak 16:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The British Virgin Islands (BVI) example is irrelevant, since the BVI exists. Australia did not exist until 1 January 1901. How could Flack have represented a country in 1896 which did not exist for another 4.5 years?! Moreover, the country of Australia was created through an Act of the British Parliament, an Act which was itself only passed by that Parliament in 1900.

I re-instated my deleted words about Flack's nationality, with a slight amendment. If you delete them again, you need to explain how it is logically possible for someone to be a citizen of a country which did not exist at the time he was competing. If you don't believe me, have a look at wikipedia's entry on Australia. Peter, 2006-07-04.

See the references I gave. Lampros et al., p. 63 -- "Mr. Flack, an Australian, reached the goal first...". Ibid, p. 72 -- "With the hoisting of the Australian flag the games of that day came to an end". Again on p. 78 -- "Mr. Flack, Australian, Mr. Dani, Hungarian, and Mr. Golemi, Greek." And I point you again to the IOC's medallist database and to their medals table for the 1896 Games here. The IOC is the authority here. Also, Australia certainly did exist before 1901--political unification and independence are not required for existence. And by the way, our very own History of Australia (1851-1900)#The push for federation indicates that Australian nationalism stretched back to the 1880s at least. Certainly plenty of existence there for authors in 1896 to refer to Flack as Australian. -- Jonel | Speak 04:11, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

---

In 1896, "Great Britain and Ireland" was one legal entity, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, under one government administration. So I have reworded this to remove any ambiguity. Peter, 2006-07-04.

---