Talk:Auschwitz concentration camp

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Contents

[edit] Archives

Archive 1 (-Jan 30,2007)



[edit] The swimming pools, etc.

I have read (on Scrapbook Pages) that Auschwitz had two swimming pools, one for SS members and one for Polish political prisoners (not Jews), and that the residents of Auschwitz I (said to be the location of the swimming pools) were largely Jews able to work in factories, POWs, political prisoners, and Nazis, as well as their prostitutes, while Jews unable to work in factories went over to Birkenau/ Auschwitz II. I wonder about the truth or untruth of such items. — Rickyrab | Talk 21:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I mention the swimming pools because Holocaust deniers routinely point out the existence of an "Auschwitz swimming pool". Those deniers probably also noticed the tampering that occurred with gas chambers (they were blown up, Zyklon B holes in roofs filled in and covered up very expertly, new Zyklon B holes in Auschwitz I inserted by the Soviet Union post-liberation, the gas chamber at Auschwitz I subdivided by Nazis for use as a bomb shelter, the restoration of same gas chamber was botched by the Soviet Union in that a restroom was added to the floor area of the original gas chamber, and other evidence-tampering), thus giving them further ammunition. Nonetheless, I don't see how they would explain all the human hair piled up with hydrogen cyanide in them (yes, it was used as a fumigation agent, which also caused deterioration over time, but it's tough to get Zyklon B out of hair before passing it to German industrialists. Thus, such hair likely came off of gassed prisoners). — Rickyrab | Talk 21:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


It's very unlikely that anyone at this late date wants to insert any story about dead gassing victims being shorn of their hair. Let's have this done before their gassing and then gas their hair before it was later washed and used in some as yet unknown industrial capacity. Having a barber shop in the gas/morgue/crematorium would be unwieldy - and so far unknown to any witness.

I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make, anonymous editor. But a very great deal of human hair still exists on the Auschwitz site, together with suicases, spectacles, shoes and prayer shawls.--Anthony.bradbury 19:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

yes, and what does that prove? piles of hair? piles of shoes? does that prove that there was a mass killing? i have read that the hair was cut to fight the lice infestation and that a prison uniform, which included shoes, was issued to every new inmate. this, however does not prove that anyone was gassed. sorry, need more evidence. Keltik31 20:27, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


I am saying that the gas chambers, morgue, etc are already so crowded and no eyewitness talks about a barber\shop operating in the gas/morgue/... They were using hair everywhere during the war. The last bunch of hair found means nothing - unless you have an awfully big pile. ( Zyklon B comes out of hair quite easily - evaporates eventually for one ). Above - you can't coverup holes in concrete "expertly" - concrete is a misserable substance once set, grinding the surface and a paint job can't fool an expert or even a picky customer.

The pile of hair at Auschwitz I is about 30 metres long, 8 metres wide and a metre deep. How big is "awfully big"?--Anthony.bradbury 00:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


Looked up the hair - it was bagged for shipment. The big pile must be some museum exhibit. Bagged after disinfection - shaved to get rid of lice. I guess the Germans could have left the lice and hair alone, but then it appears they were trying to save lives and/or had some use for the hair. Where is the picture of this hair - is this the 7000k of bags full ready for shipment, seems not. Any analysis of the hair - lice bodies,Zyklon,DNA,etc - lots to work with it appears. 159.105.80.63 14:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Looked it up - you must have seen Block 4. Block 4's hair is an exhibit, they maybe tried to mute the emotional effect but they inside seemed to intensify it. The actual photos of hair at the camp at capture are shipping bags, and nowhere, it seemed to me, to be 7000k worth. If Germans used hair then I doubt they collected it for show. But it is true, when you want to get rid of lice you shave the hair ( of course if you just want to use the hair you shave the hair - both possibilities, now which is true?). PS Putting a big pile in a musuem exhibit means little to a scholar but alot to a tourist I guess.159.105.80.63 15:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


More about hair - they shaved the hair off everyone, even in the "non-death camps" - Belsen, etc. So there was hair everywhere - some exhibits just failed to showcase it. An analysis of hair from different camps would be interesting - Zyklon brought in - usage - difference, etc159.105.80.63 15:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You are welcome to hold your opinion. It is not shared by most scholars, including this one.--Anthony.bradbury 22:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


Too bad we don't have access to a doctor's opinion on what would have been the best way to stop a typhus epidemic in the 1940s, what would you need, what success would you have in wartime, estimated causalties in prison camps, etc159.105.80.80 17:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prefabricated horse barns?

The Scrapbook Pages site also noted that prefabricated horse barns were used as barracks, sheds, and/or other facilities, and that Auschwitz I was on the site of an earlier Polish military garrison. — Rickyrab | Talk 21:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely. Many, albeit not all, of the presently extant blocks at Auschwitz I formed part of a pre-war Polish cavalry barracks.--Anthony.bradbury 22:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


So nothing prefab about it at all? I always wondered why the architecture was so grand - it must have been quite old, it 's buildings ( main ones ) never looked like rush jobs to build. Most of the fancy extras, swimming pools, etc then are easily explanable - as a matter of fact it would be odd if they weren't there, unless the Polish cavalry didn't like luxury. Each bit of information helps to revis/whoops I mean enhance the history of the place. Both sides can use this - the swimming pools were there for the Polish cavalry, but they were there, etc ...concert halls, hospital, sewage system, etc Revisionism at its finest - a slip or a slip of paper and you get a new prespective on actual surroundings. This may also tie into the finding of so many horseshoes etc in one excavation at another camp - I believe maybe near Auschwitz but not sure. Maybe the Germans used captured Polish military bases - infrastructure already in place - near rail lines etc. - near industrial areas that needed protection. Are there Polish records - blueprints etc - available. They would settle how much of the building was new or already in place - whether pictures were of new building projects or just reroofing existing buildings. This could gore both oxen.

Many of the brick-built barrack blocks existed before the war, and were part of a Polish cavalry barracks. After the defeat of Poland, when it was decided to convert Auschwitz I into a concentration camp, buildings in the same style were erected on what had been the cavalry exercise area. Nothing pre-fab, absolutely not. I have been thewre and seen it. The swimming pool, which I did not see and which may no longer exist, was built for the SS. I am not convinced of the existence of concert halls. Certainly there is no present physical evidence of their existence, and I went all over the site.--Anthony.bradbury 20:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Hey, just saying that there's vandalism in the first part of this page. I'm not really good at editing things, so i just wanted to alert people.24.159.205.132 18:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] uses for Auschwitz after the war

I thought this was sort of ... ironic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zgoda_camp . It seems like it should be mentioned. Apologies if it is and I didn't notice it. --74.104.113.26 08:23, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Auschwitz

Say, shouldn't the Jewish swimming pools, camp theater, brothels and also the camp money be mentioned in this comprehensive Holocaust theory page?

209.226.237.48 02:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Swimming pool was for use of SS (mentioned in article); brothel was for use of SS and favoured Kapos (mentioned in article); there is no evidence of a theatre, although there was a small orchestra/band who played in the open (mentioned in article). I have no data on camp money.--Anthony.bradbury 08:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


Looking up the Belsen camp, I tried to find one of the commanders, Kramer, in this article. He was at Auschwitz and then transferred to Belsen to get ready to receive the evacutees from Poland. He was executed for killing inmates while he was involved in transferring the sick to safety - odd ideas in one sentence. Any good leads on his correspondence?159.105.80.63 14:16, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Ido not know what reference you are quoting, so my comment must be speculative. The idea would make sense, in a Nazi context, if the safety in question was the safety of the SS guards from the advancing Russians.--Anthony.bradbury 10:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


It would make no sense to retreat with sick inmates if you wanted to protect the SS. Kramer negotiated with the Allies concerning the evacuation, I believe. His memos concerning his attempts to protect,etc the inmates makes a strange juxtzposition with his later execution.159.105.80.80 11:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

It would make sense if he was either concerned not to leave witnesses, or if he wanted favorable testimony from the sick whom he evacuated. But, as I said, I was speculating and you are perfectly free to place your own interpretation on his behaviour. What is it?--Anthony.bradbury 17:11, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


America has the memos where he negotiated with us about safe passage for the inmates, I hope we still have them. Of course he did leave witnesses, so it appears he wasn't too worried about that. Surprisingly few could be aroused to be witnesses against him, considering the number left behind/brought along who survived the typhus. His lawyer, an American I believe, later would not bow to pressure and say he thought he was guilty. Tracing down some of the minor characters - unpublicized - gives a real smell to parts of the story - after denying gassing, Kramer then was interrogated and confessed ( his confession was so ludicrous that he must have hoped he was talking to idiots and that history would exonerate him ). 159.105.80.80 17:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] "a large number of homosexuals and Jehovah's witnesses"

"Additionally, large numbers of homosexual people and Jehovah's Witnesses were killed at Auschwitz."
How large a number? Is there any source for this assertion? Earlier in the article, the number of homosexuals imprisoned is given at forty-eight.Proabivouac 05:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The 48 homosexuals were at Auschwitz I. Much larger numbers were killed at Birkenau, as is up to a point evidenced by the fact that they had teir own colour of triangle (pink) to wear on their uniforms. But I cannot give figures. Records are, as is known, incomplete.--Anthony.bradbury 20:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


48 - I guess Hitler wasn't out for a total purge. 48 sounds ridiculous, almost belittling the whole article - keep it in.159.105.80.141 18:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Hitler had a strangely ambivalent approach to homosexuals, not wholly mirroed by Himmler. Many of Hitler's early associates, such as Rohm, were homosexual, although there is clear evidence that Hitler was not. But Nazi policy in the war years did target homosexuals, among other groups, and a large (but unknown) number died at Auschwitz-Birkenau.--Anthony.bradbury 21:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] david cole interview with Dr. Franciszek Piper, Senior Curator and Director of Archives at the Auschwitz State Museum

why not. in this interview, dr piper states that the gas chambers are a recreation and are not in their original state. he also talks about the holes in the ceiling where the zyclon b pellets were allegedly dropped. no talk about how the tour is a bunch of lies. what a pitty. Keltik31 20:23, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

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