Talk:August Jack Khatsahlano

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[edit] A long life

According to this (sorry it's a pdf) the village of XwayXway was "abandoned" around the time the Park was founded (or stolen, depending on you POV) in 1888. If Khatsahlano was born there and lived to 1971, he was at least 83 when he died. - TheMightyQuill 23:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Civic history materials are full of errors and other weirdnesses; they give the location of Lucklucky, as it's usual spelled (I've seen the Skwxwu7mesh version but can't re-do it), as being where they put the monument to it, out next to Crab Park on the other side of the harbourfront road; it should be where the Gassy Jack statue is (the mound there is the stump of the biggest of the maple trees - lucklucky means grove of maples - that was paved over after the Great Fire- that's a disambig where I think I redlinked Vancouver's as well as New West's and maybe there should be Victoria's too, and there were others in other towns, incl. my pet burg Lillooet in 1931). There's lots of bad history in city files and promo packages, as well as in other levels of government material and tourism bumpf and media miswrites and pastiches, despite occasionally excellent stuff by guys like Stephen Hume. xwayxway (note that in Sxkwxwu7mesh spelling it's not capitalized, as with xwemlch'stn) was definitely inhabited when the ring road was built, and that was after the park was declared; it certainly wasn't the great village or, from what I think I know but may be wrong, the main ceremonial centre of the inlet Skwxwu7mesh; it's where they were when Vancouver sailed in, apparently; he didn't see xwemelch'stn until after. Its name of course means "masks", a good indication of its role as a place of ceremony/potlatching; if I'm wrong OldManRivers please correct me, or explain better than what I've gathered here and there and pieced together; better to go to the horse's mouth, if you can get the horse to talk ;-) You may even, perhaps, be able to provide the names of the last occupants of the park, or those who were displac;ed by the ring road - see Talk:Stanley Park in the ring road/park drive section I just wrote). Gotta go, later.Skookum1 01:59, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Your correct about the translate, it does mean masks. Very sacred area for our culture, well, untill the whiteman came and built an aquarium, side-walk, and other touristy stuff, but that wasn't intill the government said "Your evicted." I don't know about "main ceremonial center". Seems a little fetchy because if you go back before the diseases that wiped out the Skwxwu7mesh before actualy colonization of Vancouver, the whole inlet would of have a lot of people. The main villages were xwayxway, senakw, xwemelch'stn, chi'ch'elxwikw' and asnetch. OldManRivers 05:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that phraseology I got from either Morley or Matthews, or it's an attempt to make "dancing ground" (as I think Matthews calls it) a little more uppity; his impression was it had special significance for ceremonies/medicine but I can't recall his wording; his source was I think August Jack, but also other elders; where were chi'ch'elxwikw' and asnetch? A lot of people like the name Eeyulshun (Jericho Beach, I think), btw - "soft/squishy sand between the toes" or whatever it means, but it also "sounds cool".Skookum1 07:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I have to double check with asnetch, but it's where the Burrard Indian Band is right now. It was our territory a long time ago, but they came over the hills and asked for a place to stay. We let them stay there, then eventually they became Tsiel-waututh, which in our language is sel'it'wetulh. (Do you know notice something about the spelling now? lol). chi'ch'elxwikw' is Seymour reserve, which is where the Band Office, Second Narrows Bridge, and Superstore (and gas station) are located at right now. My friend used to joke that chi'ch'elxwikw' translated to "Place where you pick up cheque". lol OldManRivers 10:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is also the names I have from my papers. xwayxway = Mask place = Lumbermans Arch. Elksn = Point of land = Point Grey. Ts'ats'lhm = cold place = Wreck Beach. P'e'kwcha = Flat back = Spanish Banks. kwekw7u'pay' = Lots of wild crab apple trees = Lorcarno Beach. Uy'a'l'mexw = Good Land = Jericho Beach. i7iy'al'mexw = Good Camping Ground = Eastern Jericho Beach. xepxpay'em = Having red Cedar = Kits Beach. and many more. I believe I've seen those in books like Conversations with Khatsahlano. I'm learning these right now, but when you don't use them, and you are not around a lot of people who use them, it's hard. But, these are some of the name places. OldManRivers 10:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)