User talk:ARYAN818

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[edit] DO NOT BLOCK USER BECAUSE OF NAME PLEASE

Please do not block this user because you assume his name is offensive to you....You should do your research or read through the users page before you assume his name is offensive & should be blocked.....He is not a Nazi....He is not part of any white power group....His name is a common name through out the world.....It is common in India, Iran, Armenia, Afghanistan, Nepal, and a bunch of other countries. It is a common religious name in Hinduism, Buddhism, & Sikhism as well.

[edit] WP:NPA and also please discuss your edits

  1. ARYAN818 (talk • contribs), please discuss before making controversial and uncited edits. Thanks. --Ragib 08:44, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
  2. Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. --Ragib 08:44, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

various users have identified you as a troll. If you do not alter your aggressive and unencyclopedic behaviour, respect consensus and discuss the sources on which you base your changes (and since your edits are extremely uninformed, maybe pick a topic on which you have some knowledge or references), your edits will continue to be reverted, and you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia if you persist. dab (ᛏ) 18:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unblock

I have unblocked this account. This user chose to use his own name as his username; he should not be blocked for it. Kelly Martin (talk) 04:45, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

THank you Kelly but I am still blocked....What is going on here?....All this hassle I have gone through all because some guy (RAL315) decided to block me cuz he says that my user name is innapropriate...This is not fair...It is not fair for some random person to just block you anytime they want to, with no warning, and for a stupid reason that he gave....Look at my name...its my birth name and my area code....Its a common name in India , Iran, Armenia, you name it.....Is this fair? Can someone please block RAL315 because he decided to block me? HELP SOMEBODY!!!!! ARYAN818 06:34, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

If you have complains about the block, please put them in Administrator's noticeboard, with appropriate references to the block logs. However, blocking you isn't a sufficient reason for blocking an administrator, considering your previous history of edits and inappropriate behavior. Thanks. --Ragib 08:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
P.S. You are not blocked, according to the block log. --Ragib 08:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Do not remove other people's edits

Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Rama's Arrow 18:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I didnt remove anything as a test...I made logical edits'....u didnt bother telling me what "HUGE" tests i did ARYAN818 18:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
this is just trolling now. You have obviously no desire to add anything constructive. If you continue in this vein, you'll be blocked from editing. This is an encyclopedia, we are not here to prat around, you may want to try Usenet instead. dab (ᛏ) 19:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Were you going to tell me what it is that you have a problem with? You keep saying I am trolling, I am doing this, I am doing that....But you wont tell me what it is that I am doing that is wrong? CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT IT IS THAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH? ARYAN818 01:37, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
IT MIGHT WELL BE THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF UPPERCASE TEXT YOU USE ALL THE TIME. IT'S VERY ANNOYING BECAUSE IT'S DIFFICULT TO READ AND CONSIDERED BAD "NETIQUETTE". IT'S TANTAMOUNT TO SHOUTING IN REAL LIFE. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 23:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
O im sorry your majesty...I didnt realize caps was such a life affecting issue....Waa waa waaaa please forgive me o great one....Im sorry...I beg u....please....forgive me! Please o great one! I did not know that caps was so annoying! ARYAN818 07:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal attacks

Regarding your comments at Talk:Sikhism: Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 16:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey Aryan

Hey Aryan. It looks like you're coping it a little here and that maybe you don't know exactly what you've done wrong? Thought I might help out a little (I'm not involved in any of those, I'm not an admin or anything special like that, just trying to help you out).

Basically, Wikipedia maintains a strict no personal attacks policy. We do this simply to avoid losing/scaring away new users who might make a mistake every now and then. If we can spare them the insult of "hey that edit was so stupid you are dumb" etc. we hopefully don't deter them from contributing and they learn from their mistakes.

You've made some edits recently that seem to be a form of personal attack (see these links: [1] [2] [3]). If you disagree with someone's edit, that's fine. There is, however, no need to say things like "You are a typical example of a hardcore SIkh...You only go by what you hear and u never actually take the time to read the actual Hindu teachings....U dont bother to learn anything and u just go by what u hear.". If you think an edit someone made is factually incorrect, you should bring it up on the article's talk page (which you did) and provide evidence (external evidence such as a website, we're unable to accept your own knowledge as verifiable evidence which is especially important in editing disputes like this one) as to why you think the edit might be wrong (which I can see you definitely attempted in this edit: [4]). Remaining civil through this process is also essential - rather than insulting the intelligence of the user who made the edit (even - especially - if the user was indeed wrong) not only means that people are likely to be more receptive towards your evidence, but also that you will not run foul of other editors who might take insult at what you say.

Basically, we're here to write an encyclopedia. Part of that is having intelligent, evidenced, proper discussion about facts in articles. If editors decide to take the easy way out - by calling their fellow editors names and insulting their intelligence - not only do we lose factual accuracy, but we also lose good contributors who feel unwelcome. Keep this in mind, and you'll have no problems around here. :)

You should also see this link: [5] where your case is being discussed by administrators. If you've got any questions or need any more help, let me know. Have a great day! --james // bornhj (talk) 16:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Ya but I dont understand....these guys who im debating, get to call all the shots....They are deciding what stays and what goes in the articles....Its as if they are the ones in charge of the article....I mean i understand everyone has opinions...but all I wanted to do was put in a 2 sentence change in the article, which sets up a link, to another article...why?....For people who want to learn something else....and these guys are telling me basically NO...SORRY....NOT GOOD ENOUGH...I mean they make edits with no back up...and I cant do anything ARYAN818 21:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I told you initially that your edit was conjecture and for such a controversial claim cited no sources [6]. All that occured was a big rambling about Hinduism and Sikhism being the same. All I ask is you provide a reputable source (a published book preferably, not some fringe web site) that mentions the point you're trying to make. If you have that, we can add it to the article - simple! Instead of providing a source, you got into an argument on the talk page.
And, incidentally, it's not as if the Sikhism article doesn't already discuss the similarities with Hinduism. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 22:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unblock

UNBLOCK

I am very angry right now....This is very very annoying to me...... My user name was blocked by JDoorjam because she says its offensive....She never took the time to ask me about my name.....She never tried to contact me.....She never even warned me that she was "offended".....She just went ahead and blocked me....Just like that....I mean she could have at least let me explain my name before she blocked me...She obviously hasnt done her research on my name...She obviously isnt educated on this matter...And she never even tried to talk to me...She just went ahead & blocked me & thats very mean & unfair!

My name is Aryan!...This a common name!...Its common in India, Iran, Armenia, Indonesia, Afghanistan, and a bunch of other countries....Im not part of the Nazi people!...Its a regular name!...Its not my fault that Hitler used it for his own purposes!....And the 818 is my aread code! For god sakes I live in Los Angeles....I use Aryan818 on alot of websites!...Can someone please email JDOORJAM & explain to her that maybe she should do some research before she blocks someone? And can someone tell her next time she should be nice enough to talk to a person before she blocks them!....I cant even email her cuz im blocked for god sakes!!!!

ARYAN818 07:00, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Please do not delete other people's comments unless archiving. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 09:27, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


While 818 is an area code of greater LA, it is very unfortunate circumstance that the combination "Aryan818" was chosen by the user, becoz it does correspond with neo-Nazi symbolism. I suggest that ARYAN818 be permitted to apply for username change. This Fire Burns.....Always 14:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another point

Note that some neo-Nazis use "88" to indicate "Heil Hitler": H = 8, you see. Thusly, 818 could be interpreted as "Heil Adolf Hitler"; combined with "ARYAN", this is simply unacceptable. I'm sorry if you're sincerely confused about this, but you will have to get a username change if you want to continue editing here. DS 21:37, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unblock

I am very angry right now..... My user name was blocked by JDoorjam because she says its offensive....She never tried to contact me.....She never warned me that she was offended.....And she never even tried to learn about it....She just went ahead and blocked me....I mean its not my fault that she hasnt done her research on my name...She just blocked me & thats very mean & unfair.....Aryan is a common name in India, Iran, Armenia, Indonesia, Afghanistan, and a bunch of other countries throughout the world....Aryan is also common in Hinduism, Sikhism, & Buddhism.....I mean its not my fault that white people used it for racial reasons....Its not my fault that Hitler used it....And its not my fault that the Nazis used it!....But Aryan has been a common name for centuries & it is used throughout many different countries & in three world religions....This is my name for god sakes!...Can someone please unblock me because this is very unfair....And can someone email Jdoorjam & explain all this to her? Please tell her that next time she should be nice enough to talk to a person before she blocks them! I mean I cant even email her cuz she blocked me!

                                       ARYAN818 23:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unblocked

Hello,

I've unblocked you. Sorry for the inconvenience -- we get a lot of vandalism from nazis and racists, and admins have become very sensitive to anything which could give away such attitudes. I've asked the admin who blocked you not to block you again for this reason, and I have added a notice to your userpage about it. Feel free to edit this notice, or to remove it.--Eloquence* 00:24, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The "818"

Hello Aryan,

I had not seen the comments above when I unblocked you. Please do not blank your talk page -- it makes it harder to see what discussions have already happened. The point has been made above that the number "818" is nazi symbolism. I've never seen it used as such -- Google certainly doesn't indicate that it is very popular -- but I can understand the concern. Would you consider creating a new account with a different name, without the number "818"? Thanks,--Eloquence* 00:46, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

My apologies about this misunderstanding. If you do decide to get a new account, I strongly suggest you get your current account renamed (at WP:CHU), so that you keep the contributions you have already made. You should not register the new account name if you want to do this. Of course you should feel free to keep your current username as well. Let me know what you decide, Prodego talk 00:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleting comments

Please do not delete comments without explanation. Thanks,--Eloquence* 01:15, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your user name

What does 818 signify? JDoorjam Talk 08:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

WEll thank you for finally asking me....Its an area code...I live in Los Angeles, and here in Los Angeles, one of the area codes out here is 818 ARYAN818 08:10, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

True, see Area code 818. The area code of San Fernando valley in Los Angeles is indeed 818. And Aryan is indeed a common Indian name, with no relation to Nazi-related connotations of the word "Aryan". Actually, communities in India have been calling themselves Aryan for more than 2500 years at least. Hitler only "borrowed" the term recently (compared to 2.5 millenia). --Ragib 08:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
it's the combination of the allcaps ARYAN, the number 818 (reminiscent of 88, 18), and the user's aggressive behaviour on race/ethnicity related topics. If user would just do harmless spellchecking edits, I think no-one would have commented on the name. As it is, the name is unsuitable, and if user has a genuine interest in contributing (rather than provocation), he could easily pick another name. It seems evident that user is not interested in contributing and should be classified as a troll (and be blocked on those grounds alone). With Ragib's reasoning, we couldn't block a user "Adolf88" claiming that his first name was Adolf (a perfectly normal first name), and his house number was 88. dab (ᛏ) 08:34, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the edit-warring in race-related pages is definitely harmful, and combined with the user name, it makes the users claims questionable. I would suggest ARYAN asks for a user name change, otherwise, people would continue to comment on the Nazi connection. (I'm not commenting on the user's edit patterns, on which I agree with dab.
By the way, I didn't know any Nazi connection of the number 88 to Nazism, until now. (So, I honestly wouldn't think twice about Adolph born in 1988 using the name Adolph88, unless he started edit-warring in Nazism related pages). --Ragib 08:57, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amazing

Really Amazing things may happen here on account of the Cultural divide! What applies to the personal name Aryan, same applies to the symbol Swastika used in India for more than 2,500 years. The Nazi did great harm to the people of the Indian subcontinent by mis-using their names and symbols. They, particularly Adolf Hitler surely did more direct harms to several other communities and nationalities. --Bhadani 14:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User name

Please do not block this username citing "appropriateness" without discussion. The conclusion that the username has Nazi connotations is very subjective and the user might have a valid reason that it may be something else. If there is a problem with the username, file an RFC. If the consensus is to rename the user, list the conclusion on WP:CHU. At the same time I request ARYAN818, to consider having his username renamed by placing a request on Wikipedia:Changing username. =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:00, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

ARYAN818, I think you must get your username changed, because even after clarification, people who don't know the meaning of your username will make the wrong conclusion and take offense. The "appropriateness" cause arises from it, and is still quite valid. This Fire Burns.....Always 16:28, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
I do agree with Rama. The saying goes - what is there in a name? But, we can not expect everyone to accept this reality. When a person belonging to the Indian subcontinent could take offence to one's user name in an RfA, persons not exposed to names of the Indian subcontinent and India may certainly take serious objection to a user's normal user name on account of their infatuation. It is better to change your user name, if you wish to have a smooth life here. Perhaps, our process and policies are such that no one can guarantee that you shall not be blocked and banned for crimes committed by the Adolf Hitler and his gang! In view of such a reality, please think over the matter, and please get your user name changed as suggested by Rama. I have seen a user (a personal friend of mine) blocked (killed) for ever after 10 or 12 edits simply because his/her name was similar to certain names used by real or perceived sock-puppets. I have learnt that wiki-life is really dangerous - if some one decides to blocks me, I do not have any "real door" to knock! The red tape here is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Regards and all the beest! --Bhadani 17:47, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You changed my page again

The user Eloquence blanked my page so that he/she could explain for everyone to read my user name....Eloquence was trying to make it easier for anybody to find the information about why I should not be blocked, just in case somebody was trying to block me....And then you came along just now, and decided to erase that and put my page back to the way it was.....Can I ask you somethign....Why do you keep interfering with me? Cant you be nice and just leave me and my page alone? ARYAN818 08:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Check the history. I put the boilerplate for an indefinitely blocked user on your page once, after blocking your account. No one's reverted your page since Eloquence edited it (though he did remove his signature). Hope this clears up any confusion. JDoorjam Talk 18:57, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
An apology would be nice....I mean dont u feel guilty at all?...First u didnt bother talking to me before u blocked me....Then u blocked me for a reason was not legit...Aryan is a normal name....818 is an area code...Its not my fault that you are not educated in this matter....and the worst part is....you said that 88 is a code or something....But that doesnt make sense either...On Google their is barley anything on this "88", and even one wikipedia user, who lives in GErmany, even he said he has never heard of this 88 thing....and the funniest part of all is....I didnt even put an 88!...Mine says 818!....I mean look at all the frustrations you cause, and you dont even make any sense ARYAN818 19:09, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
if you didn't have childish racial delusions about the term "Aryan", there wouldn't be such a fuss about your username. As it is, you are barely evading blocks for trolling. dab (ᛏ) 20:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] comment placement

Over the last few days, I had to move your comments to the end of the page multiple times. When inserting a new comment, please add it the end of the page. That's not too hard ... there is a "+" button at the top of each talk page that allows you to do that with 1 click. Please make the life of others a little easier. --Ragib 20:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I didnt know it was such a life altering issue....My apologies your majesty ARYAN818 23:56, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
This is exactly the reason why you're getting such a hostile reception here. Ragib has kindly informed you of one of the MANY conventions followed here on Wikipedia and you reply with ego and sarcasm. You should consider that this is a community and there is a certain way of working - friendly notes to tell you about things should not been taken as telling offs. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:29, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Your one to talk...U made a page on Sikhism and u werent open minded to have one sentence setting up a link...please dont talk to me about a community & friendlyness ARYAN818 02:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Aryan, you are continuously disrupting article talk pages by placing comments at the top, while the norm is to place comments choronologically at the bottom. I already told you how to do so, if you need, a step by step screentshot can be provided (1. grab your mouse. 2. move the cursor to the top bar where you see "+", press the left button of the mouse and release it). Please refrain from adding your rants at the top of talk pages. Thank you. --Ragib 05:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Why is it such a major issue? DOesnt it make more sense to add things to the top of the page? When people view the discussion, most of them dont go to the bottom of the page and work their way to the top....Common sense ARYAN818 23:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
When you've made everybody else to convert to your ways, that'd make sense. Until then, please follow what the others are doing, and don't mess up the chronological ordering of the talk pages. --Ragib 01:53, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hinduism

Links for Wikipedians interested in Hindu content

--D-Boy 10:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I support your username

Hi, I have ethnic Indian roots and know two people who have the names of Aryan. Aryan is a very beautiful name and the 818 code is rubbish because any set of numbers can be converted into an evil message. I do however, recommend that the caps go (doesn't hurt the eyes) and you read all of Wikipedia's policies and be as kind as possible to anyone. It is time that people lose their prejudices over names like yours just because it was used by Hitler. They should grow up and learn how he changed Indian words into Nazi instead calling half of India as Nazis. GizzaChat © 08:25, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanx Gizza I agree...soo how do I make my user name in smaller caps? ARYAN818 06:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
The same place where you change your username in general, WP:CHU. There will be some hostile people there though. Please explain everything properly about the misconceptions of your username. I feel so sorry for you that so many guys here are attacking you when just joined this woderful place. GizzaChat © 07:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A "Wiki-convention"

Hey, when you post messages on talk pages and want to emphasise something, it is better to bolden the word rather than put caps. eg. this instead of THIS. I'm not sure it is official or anything, but it is a de facto rule, one step to making your life at Wikipedia better. GizzaChat © 09:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why I am making fun of your name

Aryan, as usual you miss the point - I criticize your username, not your name. The fact is I believe you must change it because you cannot avoid the fact that it does reflect a neo-Nazi symbol. As striking a coincidence it is, it is unfortunate that you picked this very combination of words and numbers when signing up.

The core issue between us is your behavior on Talk:Sikhism. You should not use capitalization, or speak derogatively to Sukh and others. Almost every statement you've made is in deriding and rude tones. We are all human beings, and everyone deserves equal respect. Unfortunately, you are pushing the envelope too far on this, as you have already been warned many times by many administrators.

You will find that a change in your behavior will see a major change in the way other editors talk to you. You will earn respect, and you'll find people willing to listen and respect your work. I went through this exact same thing in November 2005.

Frankly I believe you need to start by apologizing to Sukh. Start the dialogue again, with total respect for other people. And the incivility of Elven6 or anyone else is never an excuse to be rude yourself.

So relax, calm yourself and clear this bad blood between you and other editors. Give yourself a fresh start and realize that Wikipedia is about knowledge and nothing else. No grudges, conflicts or exchanges between editors will ever bear any importance here. So as you start over,


Welcome!

Hello, ARYAN818, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! This Fire Burns Always 18:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems to me that you are acting in an uncivil manner. Please remain civil and don't resort to making personal attacks or instigate edit wars. This Fire Burns Always 23:48, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blocked

With regards to the discussion and reasoning here ([7]), you have been blocked for 48 hours. Blnguyen | rant-line 06:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Well im back...I dont know what I did wrong...I dont know why this person blocked me...But as always their is nothing I Can do...some people on Wikipedia just abuse their power....This person didnt even tell me what i did wrong or give me a warning....Just went ahead and blocked meARYAN818 05:18, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] response

I have put a response on the Hinduism and Sikh Panth talk page aimed at your comments. Sandeep S K 15:55, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

ਨਮਸਕਾਰ ਆਰੀਅਨ! नमस्कार आर्यन! I've replied to your message on my talk page. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 21:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] nut job vandalizing Sukh's edits Hinduism and the Sikh Panth

Please watch Hinduism and the Sikh Panth. This Sandeep S K has been messing it up and filling it with crap. Follow the edits of Talk. They're more scholarly and reliable (both are Sikhs). Netaji 21:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Well what can I do...THe user Sukh is just gonna abuse his power and block me if I change Sandeep's strange changes....Sukh agrees with Sandeep so I cant do anything ARYAN818 20:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

I've seen the contributions you have made and as a Sikh I don't agree with your views. However, one thing that I have noticed about you is that you seem to have a warrior's spirit. If you managed to use a little more logic and balance in doing things- I think you would make a great Sikh. You certainly have a Sikh warrior's spirit, which I admire and respect. What is your Gotra, caste or surname?--Pun si 00:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] even SRKs son's name is Aryan

even shah Rukh khan's (Indian film hero) son's name is Aryan. I dont understand why anyone is having a problem with your username.nids 17:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it seems very wierd to me that people blocked you without consulting you on your choice of username first. Maybe they simply didn't know about the fact that Aryan is a first name. There's even a film called Aryan I believe. I think the message you have placed on your userpage is helpful to the cause of keeping you unblocked. Nobleeagle (Talk) 07:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your recent edit to the talk page on India

Please be aware that comments on a talk page are posted at the end of an ongoing discussion. Inserting comments in the middle (especially when they are redundant and have already been covered by other respondents) is considered bad Wikiettiquette and, if persisted in, can be considered vandalism. Fowler&fowler 00:46, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] for wp sikh editors

Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals/2006/December#.7B.7BSikh-bio-stub.7D.7D.2C_Category:Sikh_religious_figures The stub people wanted input from WP Sikh editors. While you're at it please check out {{User WikiProject Sikhism}} as well.Bakaman 04:56, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding your latest message on Dravidian people Talk Page

Dravidian is a classification for a family of aboriginal ethnic groups throughout the Indian Sub-continent from Pakistan all the way down to Sri Lanka. Just like the term Oriental was used as a clssification of the ethnic groups in China and Japan. You are right that the average South Indian would not say that he or she is a Dravidian, just like a Chinese or a Japanese would not tell you that they are an Oriental. Also, one cannot say that Dravidians are just only in South India since. Even though they are densely populated in Southern India and Sri Lanka, they are also scattered throughout Central and Northern India too. In the case of Central India and some other parts, there have been intermarriage between both Dravidians and Indo-Aryans. Also, as far as linguistics go, there are Dravidians of Central India and Northern India who speak Indo-Aryan languages, and those whose language is mixed in between Dravidian and Indo-Aryan words. So, to say that Dravidians do not exist, is like saying that Indo-Aryans do not exist. Let me ask you a question. Do you consider Tamils and Punjabis the same group of people? I understand the importance of the unity of India is through diversity. Live and let live. Regards.

Wiki Raja 06:43, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

We are all aboriginals of some place or other. To give the name 'Dravidian' to all aboriginals of India is not fact but fiction created by christian missionaries. Aupmanyav 07:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Please refrain from making sweeping statements in someewhat sensationalist tone as you did on the Dravidian discussion page, and keep in mind that there are editors of all cultrual and linguistic groups on Wikipedia. Thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 09:06, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE: NO your wrong Raj

Then you haven't read Tamil literature which talks about Tamilakkam or the Tamil country of present day Southern India. After all, isn't Dravidian a Sanskrit or Greek term for Damila = Tamilian? If you are saying that there is no such thing as a Dravidian, you are saying that there is no such thing as an Indian. Can you tell me in which ancient literature (Sanskrit, Tamil, Kanadda, Bengali, etc.) which mentions the word "Indian" or "India"? The word India itself is a derivation of the Greek term Indica, which was derived from the Persian or Indo-Iranian word for the Indus Valley or Hindu. Otherwise there was really no India. I unerstand that the original name for "India" was Bharat which consisted of 16 Mahajanapadas or republics. But, that only consisted of present day North India, Pakistan, part of Afghanistan and part of Central India. As for the Dravidian South, or Tamilakkam if you may, it was its own separate entity with its own kingdoms. Even in Asoka's rock inscriptions III. and IV. It mentions of the boundaries of his empire, and states that the kingdoms of Chera, Chola, and Pandya (Tamilakkam) were outside his realm. The whole sub-continent became united under one administration during the 1700s.

I will admit that the term Dravidian was invented by an outside source to describe the Tamilians and their sister groups such as the Telugus, and Kannadigas. Correct me if I am wrong, but in Vedic literature, do they not mention of Damilas, or Dravidas? How about the Indian national anthem? We can learn a lot from each other. Anyways, I would like to have contructive historical and cultural discussions with you instead of arguements. My olive branch to you: Can we work together collectively and humanely? Regards.

Wiki Raja 02:45, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if I sounded a little confusing, but what I meant to explain was that the terminology Dravidian is a classification or name of a family of simliar ethnic groups. While the terminology India was given as a name given for the country itself. So, in reality, both the terms India and Dravidian do exist. Furthermore, both names Dravidian and India have been given by the early Europeans. Did you know that the terms Australia and aborigine were names given by Europeans, Greek to be exact? Furthermore, a separate and distinct group of ethnicities do exist in Southern India whom are categorized as Dravidians. Lastly, please use a little more civility while posting discussions or engaging in debate on wikipedia. Thank you and Happy New Year. Wiki Raja 04:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
If you would allow me to intrude, Dravida is not a word invented by outside sources. It is mentioned in Vishnu Purana as 'Pancha Dravidas' and includes Gurjaras, Maharashtras, Telugus, Kannadas, and Tamils (strangely, it does not include Mayalalas), perhaps in the sense of North Indian and South Indian. Padma Purana mentions Dravidas and Dakshinas separately. I have mentioned this in Talk:Hindu. Aupmanyav 07:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
What I meant by outside sources is that either the word Dravida was invented by the Greek travellers, or in the Indo-Aryan language of Sanskrit which was outside sources (outside of the Tamil country) at the time during the rule of the Cheras, Cholas, and Pandyas. I am glad that someone else also agrees that the word Dravidian exists also in historical texts. I have heard of the Pancha Dravidas (Pancha meaning five in Sanskrit). So the five Dravidas were namely the Gujuras, Maharashtras, Telugus, Kannadas, and Tamils. By the way, the Malayalam language was not around during those days. It is a mixture of a lot of Tamil words and Sanskrit words, but became its own independent lanuage around the 8th century. Also, the Tamil Chera Kingdom was known as Chera Nadu which evolved into the name Kerala. So ethnically, the Pancha Dravidas were of the Dravidian family of ethnicities. In regards to the linguistic part of the Pancha Dravidas Gujurati and Maharashtran languages are of the Indo-Aryan family of languages, while Kannada, Telugu, and Tamil are of the Dravidian family of languages. It is interesting how the Dravidian and Indo-Aryan ethnic and linguistic families have interchanged with each other in Central India. Once again, thank you for speaking up on this. Much regards. Wiki Raja 08:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Man what is this a joke? Indian people shouldnt be like this. Our teachings teach us to unite together. There is no Dravidian race come on ARYAN818 02:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks Aryan for your efforts to counteract the misconceptions in the article 'Hinduism and the Sikh Panth'. Aupmanyav 06:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] If not Dravidians, then what are we?

To user ARYAN818 :

Posted on User talk:Wiki Raja:


"Well anything can be an ethnic group....But Indians are not Dravidian....Nobody calls themself Dravidian...And some probably 

dont even know what it means....And again....Why do u keep telling me about the word India?....I never disputed who coined 

the name India....BUt I dont understand why u keep telling me about India......And I have been very civil what are u 

talking about?......Bottom line....THere is an Aryan heriatge....but not a Dravidian heritage...." 

ARYAN818 07:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

To whom exactly is this statement “anything” referring to? Are we considered as "things" now? Is this in regards to the name ‘’Dravidian’’, or the indigenous people of Southern India? OK, let us set aside the word ‘’Dravidian’’ and not think of that now. Logically speaking, who are we? Yes, as a nationality we can say ‘’Indians’’, but I am not talking about nationality. I understand what nationality is. However, on the other hand linguistically speaking, it is more than obvious that the languages and language scripts of North and South India are totally different like night and day so we do not need to get into that. Now, on the lines of ethnicity, who are we? Are the Tamils, Telugus, Malayalees, and the Kannadigas Aryan? If we are not Aryan, then to what ethnic family do we belong? What is our heritage? Do we not have our own heritage? Why do I keep mentioning about the word ‘’Indian’’ even though the term is not being disputed? Well, the reason is because that too is not an indigenous word, just like ‘’Dravidian’’ is not an indigenous word. Therefore, both terms ‘’Indian’’ and ‘’Dravidian’’ fall in the same category of being named from non indigenous or outside sources. For some odd reason, the fact that the word ‘’India’’ itself is not an indigenous name is blatantly avoided. On the other hand, the term ‘’Dravida’’ gets attacked at every given moment. Furthermore, the term ‘’Dravida’’ is mentioned in Sanskrit sources like the Vedas, while the term ‘’India’’ is not mentioned in any South Asian literature (be it Sanskrit, Hindi, Tamil, Bengali, Punjabi,etc.). The people who should be concerned or, if so, upset about the term ‘’Davidian’’ are the people who are categorized as ‘’Dravidians’’ themselves.

Dont get picky about my sentence of "THINGS"....An ethnic group can be any group of people.....The North & South Indian languages are different....But there are many many similar words....The only thing similar about Dravidian and Indian are the fact that there both made up.....THe difference is that people call themself Indian & no one calls themself Dravidian lol....Thats why Dravidian gets attacked and not Indian.....Another reason for the attack is when u mention Indian u are uniting a billion people....When u mention Dravidian u are separating millions of people from the rest of India......U asked one good question....If there not Aryan....who are they?.....Well....They are Aryans as well in some sense arent they?.....An Aryan doesnt have to be light or dark skinned, short or tall....If u want to get technical Indian people are part of the caucasian race ARYAN818 02:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Posted on Talk:Dravidian people:


I cant believe there are still people who think there are people who call themselves Dravidian.....THe term Dravidian is a 

racist term made up by Euorpeans....In India nooooobody calls themself Dravidian.....I live in America and ive never met 

one person from south India who says there Dravidian.....I dont know anyone that takes pride in saying there 

Dravidian......And a big chunk of people dont even know what a Dravidian means!......Dont u people get it by now!....Its 

2006!.....The Aryan invasion theory is a joke.....ANd the label of Dravidian is a joke to!.....Brrrrrrrruah Punjab India! 

ARYAN818 22:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I cannot believe that someone would post something like this on Wikipedia. First your statement "the term Dravidian is a racist term made up by Europeans..." is an accusation against the Europeans and calling them racist. "Dont u people get it by now!..." is posted. Just what on earth is that supposed to mean? "u people"? Is this statement directed towards us, or the ethnic groups in Southern India? And then the message is ended with, "Brrrrrrrruah Punjab India!"? Correct me if I am wrong, but am I sensing some kind of superiority aura here?

Dravidian is a racist term....Many Europeans went to India trying to understand INdian history and very very badly understood it....Alot of them came up with this idea that Aryans came from Europe, went through Iran/India, and mixed in with the Darker Dravidians lol....And they say the "tall light skinned Aryans pushed down the dark skinned Dravdians (Which to them explains why north Indians are supposedly lighter then south Indians)......ANd whats wrong with Brrrruah Punjab India lol....Its funny ARYAN818 02:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Posted on User talk:Wiki Raja


"U asked me if I consider the Punjabis & Tamils the same group of people.....today no.....In the bigger picture....yes...they  

are the same." ARYAN818 23:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

What exactly does "in the bigger picture" supposed to mean? I'm sorry, not everybody thinks the same, or can read other peoples minds, but please be more descriptive. The more we discuss into detail about the ethnic cultures of India, the weirder and eerie it gets. Now, I am not talking about the name ARYAN818. In the first place nothing crossed my mind about that particular user name since I understand that it stands for Indo-Arya. There is already a disclaimer message in bold face cap letters on your site. It is not the user name that is offending people, it is this discourteous attitude of intolerance towards other people’s cultures and heritage, and I am not talking about nationality. The above statement posted on my user talk page sends me the message that the indigenous people of Southern India in general do not exist, and should not exist.

What I meant was today we might be somewhat seperated because of language and slight differnce in culture....Many parts of India have a sort of sub-culture....But....in the bigger picture....Indian people come from the same blood.......And what do u mean discourteous attitude?....Do u even know what your talking about? Many people have blocked me from using wikipedia SIMPLY BECAUSE OF MY NAME ARYAN818 02:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

To user Aupmanyav:

Posted on User talk:Wiki Raja


"Since this topic concerns both of us, so I thought it better to post on your page. Aryan, of course, is welcome to join us, 

if he so desires. Here is what I would like to add. You said on Aryan's page that Aryans (and Greeks) called South Indians 

Dravida, it may or may not be true. There might have been people who called themselves Dravida. The writers of Vishnu 

Purana and Padma Purana might have picked up the name by which these people knew themselves, e.g., Marwari for those who 

lived in the earstwhile state of Jodhpur and Mewari for those who lived in the state of Udaipur. I will also contest your 

view that Bharatvarsha was only North India, otherwise Kalidasa's Meghdoot would not have taken the trouble to travel all 

the way from Kanyakumari to Himalaya, travelling from Vindhyas would have been enough. And if Dravidians signifies 

aboriginals then those in the South India are not the only ones, you have other aboriginals in UP, Bihar, Bengal, and 

Orissa. So all aboriginals of India cannot be termed as Dravidas. This was the real mischief done by christian 

missionaries, they turned the name of a people into a race and separate from Aryans. Aupmanyav 12:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, I will have to ask you to please show a little tolerance of other religions, since a lot of us in the South are Christians. Secondly, the aboriginals, tribals, backwards castes, and untouchables throughout the whole of India (with the exception of Eastern India) are ethnically related to the Dravidians of southern India. I am talking about both the ethnic and linguistic families in India. There have been historians, of not only European background, but from India itself, whom have stated in their books about Southern Dravidians, Central Dravidians, and Northern Dravidians in relation to ethnicity and languge. Some of these authors, linguists, anthropologist, and historians:

  • Denys De S. Bray. The Brahui Language: An Old Dravidian Languages Spoken in Parts of Baluchistan and Sind.
  • Dr R. Madhivanan. Indus Script Dravidian.
  • L.S. Ramaiah. General And Comparative Dravidian Languages And Linguistics.
  • Andronov, Michail S. A Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian Languages.
  • Krishnamurti, Bhadriraju. Comparative Dravidian Linguistics: Current Perspectives.
  • Sanford B. Steever. The Serial Verb Formation in the Dravidian Languages (MLBD Series in Linguistics).
  • M.B. Emaneau. Kolami. A Dravidian Language.
  • Satyanarayan Das And Sunanda Das. Dravidian In North Indian Toponomy.
  • Bhaskararao, Peri. Konekor Gadaba: A Dravidian Language.


Once again, Dravidian is just a term to classify the non-Aryas of the country. If the term Dravidian is disliked so much, then let us change it to non-Aryas. I do not know why the term Dravidian causes such a ruckus to some people. For goodness sake, live and let live. We are not going into Northern India and telling everbody how to live their lives, and what to call themselves, etc. We are just minding our own business. Aupmanyav, even though our ideas, or opinions may differ, I give you kudos for some of your diplomacy shown in this discussion. Regards. Wiki Raja 10:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply - Dravid merely means south. Dravidian = South Indian its quite simple. People that believe in a Dravidian race and people that believe in an Aryan race are both wrong. Both are in fact racists in their own way (though one is obviously made out to be more racist - even in India). The "dravidian nationalists" use racist politics to persecute other Tamil people who were more educated and less deluded than them. The sad anti-Hindu and anti-Brahmin rhetoric continues in what I used to call the maatrubhoomi. Aryan what is the "brruah Punjab for"? You singing Malkit Singh ? Bakaman 00:58, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
  1. That no-one calls herself Dravidian is irrelevant to the question of whether "Dravidian" is a useful term to refer to a particular group. No-one calls herself Finno-Ugric either, and that's also a perfectly acceptable term.
  2. The question of the Aryan-invasion theory has been heavily politicised in India, but your claim that it is no longer academically repectable is simply false, as is the claim that it's the product of European racism.
  3. Your discussants write in longish, reasoned paragraphs, you respond in slogans and confrontational terms, with the clear assumption that you're right and nothing anyone says will change your mind; that doesn't help achieve consensus, or make for a rational and fruitful debate. Please try to be more respectful of other opinions, to understand other people's views and arguments before rejecting them, and to consider the possibility that you're wrong. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your user name

Please explain what the "818" means on your User name. If you do not, your name will be blocked as inappropriate. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:41, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I HAVE already gone through this a billion times....It is not my fault you are not educated about the history and meaning of my name.....Its not my fault you never took the time to view what was written in BIG BLACK BOLD on my main page....And it is not my fault that you ignored the fact that wikipedia users have written in PLAIN ENGLISH that my screen name should not be deleted ARYAN818 03:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
  1. The word that you're trying to write is "you".
  2. Please read WP:CIVIL.
  3. Zoe was asking about the "818", not about the "Aryan"; you say nothing on your User page about the former. It seems that it's you who doesn't bother to read what other people have written. Where you do mention is it in the middle of a comment much further up this page.
  4. We care because Wikipedia is constantly under attack from extremists and fanatics of one sort or another, and the numbers in your name, together with your name itself, ring warning bells. Your unpleasantly expressed (see 2) indignation that people don't know the origin of your name is absurd; what we don't know is why you chose it. Many editors have used your name as a sign of their Nazi beliefs, often in association with numbers like the ones that you use; I suggest that you go and complain to them, not to us.
  5. The message on your user page would be more effective if it weren't bolded and in all caps; that not only makes it harder to read, but is traditionally regarded as shouting very loudly (and thus rude), and sets even more alarm bells ringing in the reader's mind. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok listen to me carefully....I dont have a short temper about this...But I find it strange that there are still some people who complain....Because it clearly says in BOLD on my main page not to block my account and it explains why....Now dont misunderstand me....I am not a cold hearted person.....I mean if there is a link between Nazis & 818 then I can understand why someone would get offended....But....I am not a Nazi...I dont hate Jews....And I am not even a Euorpean.....I just go by the name Aryan & 818 is my area code.....On the main page it clearly explains how my name is common & it should not be deleted.....U say its hard to read cuz its in bold....Well first of all please know that I wasnt the one who wrote it originally....No it was actually a wikipedia member/authority figure who wrote it for me originally....I just re-worded it......Well anyway....Even if someone misses the first warning that is on the main page in bold.....There is also a second warning on the discussion page....That one also explains how my name is common & that my account should not be blocked.....It says clearly DO NOT BLOCK USER BECAUSE OF NAME & then it explains why.....So I dont have only one warning.....I have two warnings....One on the main page & one on the discussion page........But u know what else I dont get?......What is the connection with 818 & nazis?....Please dont misunderstand me....I am not saying there is no connection between nazis & 818 because I dont know about it.....But....Another Wikipedia member said they went to google.com & could barley, if ever, find a link between the crazy nazi's & 818....So again....Im not saying theres no connection because I dont know.....But.....At least one wiki user said they searched on Google.com and could barley, if ever, find a connection with crazy nazis & 818. ARYAN818 01:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
This is part of the problem; when people start their responses with aggressive phrases like "Ok listen to me carefully" they immediately put up the backs of the other person. The peculiar texting-spellings and use of four dots as punctuation also makes what you say hard to read, which doesn't help. As a courtesy to others, could you use correct spellings and punctuation?
More importantly (or, at least, more pertinently to the issue of your name), it doesn't matter who made it bold and all-caps, the fact is that it's difficult to read and is the sort of style favoured by disruptive editors; you'd be much better advised to change it. Moreover, the mere fact that you say "I shouldn't be blocked because of my name", and that some other people agree, isn't a magic shield against different opinions. There are far more people writing to this page who advise you to change than there are people who advise you not to.
Many of your questions are answered by what's been said above, which you don't seem to have read carefully enough. Perhaps the main point is this: it doesn't matter why some people find it offensive; that many do would make a courteous and considerate person consider changing it. For example, another editor (user:Budgiekiller), with a much less provocative name, has just changed it despite its being perfectly innocent in origin, because other people misunderstood it. (Just for the record, note also that I didn't argue on the basis of offensiveness, nor did I say that it's the "818" that's the main problem; I argued that it creates more work for vandal-fighters, and I pointed out that you'd either misread or misunderstood Zoe's original question.) --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Did u even read what I said?....Even if your right & the bold is difficult for some to get....I also told you I have a second warning right on the disscussion page....Its the first discussion that comes up.....SO there are 2 warnings for everyone......Did u read that in my reply?.....I cleary typed that there are 2 warnings for people to catch.....And by the way another thing......My warnings EXPLAIN why my name should not be deleted....So why are u acting like there is no explanation other then a warning?....I do give an explanation as to why my name should not be deleted....And I told that in my reply as well!....Are u even reading my messages?......And another thing lol.....U did make it seem like 818 was the issue....Zoe asked me the meaning of 818.....THen I responded to him.....And thats when u came & wrote how I dont say anything about the 818....So your not remembering your own writing....SCroll up cuz its right there....U clearly talked about how I did not address the issue about the 818 ARYAN818 10:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
For some odd reason, ARYAN818 is missing the point here. It seems that he feels he is being blocked only for his name without realizing it is also including his intolerant abusive behavior. Just because there is a warning on his user page not to remove his name since it is part of his heritage does not give him the license to abuse others, regardless of their backgrounds. He makes it seem like that pointless statement on his user page is his insurance for admin to provide him assurance that he would not get kicked out of Wikipedia for his acts. ARYAN818 also feels that he is intolerance/ abuse exempt due to someone writing in bold not to remove this individual because of his user name on his talk page as well. However, he does not realize that through his actions he is turning his talk page into a resume for bad behavior and thus legitimization for grounds of termination.
Are u paying attention to what im saying?......Some people HAVE blocked me simply because of my screen name....NOt because I was supposedly "meaN" or "rude"....No.....Simply because of my user name....You dont seem to get that.......And what do u mean I make it seem like my "Pointless" statment is a good enough reason not to block my name?....Your acting like that statement gives no explanation.....But it does!....It clearly says why my name should not be deleted.....And even if some people miss it.....I also have a second warning/explanation about my screen name on the dissucssion page...ARYAN818 10:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
ARYAN818 either has a hard time understanding or is deliberately denying the fact that the number 818 is linked to Nazism. He further stated that another user googled for the two terms 818 & Aryan and found nothing. It is not that hard to do a search on the info regarding 818. The following sites have been found which explains the usage of the number 818:
(After linking to the following sites just click on Edit, then click on Find (on This Page) in the drop down menu. Type in 818 in the Find box then click Find Next)
There are also other sites where there are other users who use 818 as their user name on the sites below:
I have a hard time understanding? I am delibaratley denying the fact?....Where do you come up with this stuff?....I clearly clearly clearly said that I dont know for sure if there is a link or not....But....Somebody told me they did a search & could barley find any kind of link.....So dont say something mean like im having a hard time understanding or im delibaratley denying it ARYAN818 10:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Lastly, there are people who argue that the Nazis have taken the term Aryan and the symbol of Swastika and have demonized it. However, believe it or not, there are folks from Indo-Aryan supremacists groups in India who idolize Adolph Hitler and the Nazis for popularizing their name and symbol. Furthermore, these particular groups in India are following the same model as the Nazis through intolerance of other ethnities and religions different from theirs. Below are links to the following sites for further information:
It is truly sad that there are groups in India who idolize Adolph Hitler and his Nazi party just for the fact that they have promoted their usage of the terminologies of aryan, swastika, and nastika (reversed swastika, also later changed to nazi in Germany), and also for the parallel of beliefs of superiority. Apart from ARYAN818s intolerance of other people’s backgrounds and beliefs, his talk page shows a six month chronological history of other negative actions such as personal attacks, controversial edits, and removing other peoples edits without valid reason. It also shows that he has been blocked a few times in the past. ARYAN818 has been taking various warnings and blockings for granted. Furthermore, he has been taking Wikipedia and its administrators for a ride.
Wiki Raja 05:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
O this is really a good one....IM taking Wikipedia members for a ride....What is this guy talking about?.....I have unedcuated people who think anyone with the name Aryan is a Nazi....What am I supposed to sit here & sing songs about how nice these people are?....I mean ive had a couple people block me without even trying to talk to me about it.....Is that suppsoed to make me happy or annoyed?.....And now i have mr raja here telling me Im taking wikipedia for a ride....Please....This is a joke ARYAN818 10:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
You'd shout too, if nobody listened to you. Prometheus-X303- 14:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
That makes no sense, and ignores most of what I said. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:Username, which clearly says, Fairly or unfairly, the line between acceptable and unacceptable user names is drawn by those who find the username inappropriate, not by the creator of the name.. Your User name has been found unacceptable by more than one person. Despite the repeated claims that your name is based on your name and area code, it is offensive to others. You have been counseled for more than six months to find a new, non-offensive, name, but you persist in using this one. I will give you a week to come up with a new name, and then I will block this account. User:Zoe|(talk) 16:39, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it is getting a bit too far. Another user named Aryan was forced to sign in Devanagari because his username offended others. Then this long discussion on the offending nature of Swastikas used in Hinduism related templates. Even on this talk page it has been pointed out many a times like here and here that 88 was the predominant form of Nazi symbolizism and not 818. Even the Nazi association of 88 is not commonly known in south asia, as pointed out by an bangla administrator on this talk page here.nids(♂) 22:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I need to make my position clear. I personally don't find the username offensive, and have no objctions to it. I do, however, object to Aryan818's very short temper and inability to discuss issues in an adult way.

It must be recognised, though, that an innocent name in one place can be offensive in another, and it's surely only good manners to go along with the language-group of a place (just as it's good manners, for example, not to use gestures or wear clothing that, while perfectly innocent at home, are offensive in the country one is visiting). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I am not commenting here on the users edit patterns or his contribs. I am just commenting on the objections raised towards the user name. The same logic that you have given here is also given on this page. It'd simply imply that since Swastika has racist connonations in the west, Hinduism related templates should not use them.nids(♂) 22:53, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

No, it would imply nothing of the kind. there's an essential difference between what goes into Wikipedia articles and what happens behind the scenes, in the community of editors. In the former case, truth and accuracy trump offence; that some people are offended at the sight of a swastika is irrelevant — we display the symbol and explain what it means, how and why it's been used, and so on. That's the rôle of an encyclopædia, and we'd be going against the essential point of the enterprise if we bowed to ignorant offence. That an editor insists on using a certain name despite the offence of his or her peers is not at all the same thing (would you think that a Hindu editor who insisted on using the name "Swastika Boy" was being reasonable?).

Note that Wikipedia is plagued by people who want to undermine the project by pushing extreme, fanatical, often racist views, and they often use names like "Aryan" and the like. It's surely a simple courtesy to hard-worked editors watching out for such attacks not to use such a name, however innocently it was originally meant. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Aryan, would it hurt to change your username at least the 818 part because it will prevent any misunderstand. It is a coincidence that both Aryan and 818 are related to you but I believe you. If you change your name to for example "Aryan Surname" it will be clearer that Aryan is your name, therefore you have no intention of insulting Jews. I'm requesting this for your sake, not mine or anyone's else. It will make your experience of Wikipedia more enjoyable. GizzaChat © 00:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I support the username and have actually been illuminated by it after reading the talk page and discussion. I had no idea Aryan was a common name in South Asia. Quadzilla99 04:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
And what are your counter-arguments to what has been said on the other side of the issue? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Lo... so i wasnt the only guy in a fix. About an year ago i was nearly banned by some admin coz i used to sign using my own name "Amey Aryan". Anyways i used to put my name in devnagri to avoid confusion, but recent turn of events has made me change my opinion about this [8]... Though i'd say you should drop 818 part... it wont hurt.Amey Aryan DaBrood© 00:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My comments to user ARYAN818

I have come across some new postings of yours embedded in between my earlier posts justifying your intolerant attitude which I do not find amusing.

“ Dont get picky about my sentence of "THINGS"....An ethnic group can be any group of people.....The North & South Indian
languages are different....But there are many many similar words....The only thing similar about Dravidian and Indian are
the fact that there both made up.....THe difference is that people call themself Indian & no one calls themself Dravidian
lol....Thats why Dravidian gets attacked and not Indian.....Another reason for the attack is when u mention Indian u are
uniting a billion people....When u mention Dravidian u are separating millions of people from the rest of India......U
asked one good question....If there not Aryan....who are they?.....Well....They are Aryans as well in some sense arent
they?.....An Aryan doesnt have to be light or dark skinned, short or tall....If u want to get technical Indian people are
part of the caucasian race ARYAN818 02:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)		 ”

If people want to unite a particular nation together, the first thing one does not do is to eliminate other peoples languages and erase their cultural history and identity. Revising history and re-inventing the wheel does help either. FYI: Dravidians are not only in India, but in the Maldives, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. One just cannot go around and make up something expecting the world to follow as fact. Can you tell me if these three people belong to the same ethnicity, leave alone belonging to the Caucasian ethnic family in this picture? By the way, skin color has nothing to do with what we are talking about, even though that tends to be the favorite use for debate. I have never touched on the issue of skin color, since I feel it is irrelevant to this topic, and of course the oldest tool for argument in the book.

The reason why some of the Dravidian languages have certain Sanskrit words was due to early contacts with each other through trade and certain religious practices. Similarly, Malay and Indonesian have adopted Tamil words in their languages due to historical interactions of trade and commerce with the Pallava and Chola Dravidian kingdoms of the early Tamil country. This doesn't mean that these languages are the same. If both Dravidian and Indo-Aryan languages were of the same family of languages, then the very basic words in their languages would have a lot of commonalities. An example of this would be in the words for numbers. But, as we can see, this is not true.

“ Dravidian is a racist term....Many Europeans went to India trying to understand INdian history and very very badly understood
it....Alot of them came up with this idea that Aryans came from Europe, went through Iran/India, and mixed in with the
Darker Dravidians lol....And they say the "tall light skinned Aryans pushed down the dark skinned Dravdians (Which to them
explains why north Indians are supposedly lighter then south Indians)......ANd whats wrong with Brrrruah Punjab India
lol....Its funny ARYAN818 02:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)		 ”

I'm not laughing.

“ What I meant was today we might be somewhat seperated because of language and slight differnce in culture....Many parts of
India have a sort of sub-culture....But....in the bigger picture....Indian people come from the same blood.......And what
do u mean discourteous attitude?....Do u even know what your talking about? Many people have blocked me from using
wikipedia SIMPLY BECAUSE OF MY NAME ARYAN818 02:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)		 ”

And just who belongs to these so called "sub-culture" groups? "Sub-humans"?

Since many people have blocked you because of your name, it was also because of your intolerant attitude towards other people's ethnic, national, and religous backgrounds. Lastly, the term "race" tends to be a favorite word to use as I have seen in most of your postings. Just remember one thing, there is only one race which is the human race.

End of discussion.

Wiki Raja 10:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Blocked

I have blocked this account for using a name which can be interpreted as offensive. It doesn't matter if you don't consider it offensive, is a reasonable neutral person would think it, then it's offensive. Please choose a new User name that isn't potentially offensive. You can use an "Aryan" name, but don't include "818" or any other Nazi-associated names with it. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I would like an apology from everyone who said I was blocked in the past simply for being rude....I told all of you that ive been blocked in the past SIMPLY BECAUSE OF MY NAME....And none of you believed me.....Well now.....HERE IS MY PROOF....The user Zoe has decided to block me SIMPLY BECAUSE OF MY NAME.....Zoe does not take into consideration that my name is a commmon name throughout India, Iran, Afghanistan, Armenia, Sri Lanka, Nepal, & many other surrounding countries......Zoe doesn't take into consideration that my name is a common name for people that follow Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, & Jainism......The user Zoe ignores the fact that Aryan is an ancient name which has been around for centuries & centuries....Zoe ignores the fact that a big chunk of the world don't view my name as offensive.......Zoe is my proof that I've been blocked simply because of my name....And I want all of u to apologize to me because none of you believe me when I said ive been blocked SIMPLY FOR MY NAME......And.....There is one other thing I would like to say......Do u know what the strangest part of all this is?.....At first Zoe told me to explain what "Aryan818" meant or else he'd block me....So he gave me the impression that if I explained what "Aryan818" mean then he wouldnt block me.....So I explained what "Aryan818" meant......And he still blocked me anyway......So what was the point of asking me for an explanation if he was going to block me anyway? ARYAN818 21:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Aryan, she said the Aryan part was okay but it became too much when it was added with 818, a number associated with the Nazis. The coincidence is too great. Changing your username isn't such a hassle, just go to WP:CHU and follow the instructions. It doesn't take very long. I am requesting this for your sake not anyone elses. You will enjoy your time on Wiki if you change your username slightly, at least remove the 818. One suggestion is to add your surname so everyobody realises Aryan is your first name. Or make a username completely different. GizzaChat © 21:43, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Well can u explain to me why Zoe asked me for an explanation if she planned on blocking me anyway?.....She asked me for an explanation which proved that she was not going to block me if I I explained to her why I have Aryan818.....And yet....After I explained it to her....She still blocked me anyway....So what was the point of asking me for an explanation if she was going to block me anyway?.....And by the way.....Why did she even ask me for an explanation in the first place when I have two warnings (One on the main page & one in the discussion page)?......My point is.....She wanted to block me NO MATTER WHAT ARYAN818 21:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I think it is wrong that this user is blocked. If he is not a nazi and never said anything anti-sematic then his account should not be blocked. His name is a common name & the 818 is his area code. I think its wrong for people to block him.....And furthermore....I also think its strange that Zoe asked him for an explanation, and after recieving one from the user Aryan, she still went ahead & blocked him anyway 75.17.17.16 04:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I find it odd that you think that we're stupid enough to believe that this is a different person, just because you haven't logged in. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:38, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
At least that IP is located near area code 818, making it possible that really is the user's area code -- so in a way the comment did argue in his favor. Pity he didn't do it as himself.
Aryan, please don't pretend to be someone else supporting yourself. That's called "sockpuppetry", and can get you blocked without the option to change your name. -- Ben 11:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
What the hell are u people talking about?...I didnt pretend to be someone else....U know this amazes me....I wrote a long paragraph proving why im right and why I deserve an apology from u people....And instead of focusing on my arguments.....You people focus on how im SUPPOSEDLY PRETENDING TO BE SOMEONE ELSE lol....Did any of u people bother to look at the computer id number?....Its different from mine....The computer id is different from mine lol.....DId u ever stop to think that maybe there are other people who live in the area code of 818?.....I mean im in Los Angeles....DO u have any idea how many millions of people are in Los Angeles?.........You people are amazing....Your all bully's and u ruin the fun of wikipedia.....I mean geez....im being blocked even though I have told u Aryan is my name & 818 is my area code ARYAN818 21:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
So this anonymous user, who isn't you, just happens to parrot your claims, and in doing so just happens to use exactly the same non-standard and confusing method of punctuating his diatribes with strings of full stops (which I've never seen anywhere else but in your comments)?
Let's try once more, though. There is a place in Austria called Fucking; if someone opened a user account User:Fucking Hindu Mother, and said in bolded capitals on the User page that she was a Hindu mother from Fucking, so please don't block her, would you think that that was OK? Even if you believed her, if she could prove that she was a Hindu mother from Fucking, would you think that she was sensitive and sensible to keep using that name? How about an Indian user living in Slut in Sweden, User:Slut Indian? How about a follower of Vedanta who lives in Knoblick, Arizona, User:Vedic Knoblicker? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Now does everyone understand why i get so freakin annoyed?.....Look at the user above me.....First he/she claims that im pretending to be someone else....As iff noooooooobody on wikipedia ever voices there opinion on a conflict.....and then.....heres the funny part.....she compares my name ARYAN to the example of HINDU MOTHER FUCKER......again......She compares a common name like Aryan (Which has been a common name for centuries and centuries. Which is a common name for people in India, Iran, Afghanistan, and alot of other countries. Which is a common name for people who follow Hinduism, Buddhism, & Sikhism). And she compares it to the example of HINDU MOTHER FUCKER......lol.....Im tellling you this amazes me ARYAN818 07:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
If I was you...I would quit Wikipedia...Its not worth the agravation of dealing with these arrogant jerks sitting in their basements with nothing better to do than pretend how important they are because they can edit in Wikipedia...As for the name...you're saying that is your name and I believe it...No one is going to put himself through so much grief if it wasn't...Good God, people, look at the crap you have put this guy through...you think anyone would go through all this nonsense so that they could vandalize one of your precious pages AND WATCH IT GET REVERTED BACK BY ONE OF THE BOTS OR ADMINS ALMOST INSTANTLY?...Get a clue...as for the dots...these are common in early telegraph communications in parts of the world...of course you will probably accuse me of being ARYAN818 as well... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.96.18.5 (talk) 20:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] New username?

Aryan, what would you accept as an alternate name, minus the all-capital-letters and the area code? "Aryan [lastname]"? "Aryan [initial]"? "Aryan [lastname or initial] in LA"? "My given name Aryan means noble or spiritual"? "They call me MR. Aryan"? You could still use a short "Aryan [initial]" as your talk page signature, by setting it in your preferences. Your full username needn't be so short and easily misinterpreted; you've got some room to work with. How would you like to fill in that space? -- Ben 23:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Notice in WP:CHU: if you request a name change to an ID (rather than create it from scratch), all your old ID's contribution history gets transferred over to the new ID. If you create the new ID first, that history can't be transferred. Right now you're blocked and can't edit WP:CHU, but you could make the request here and I think Zoe would either allow you to make that request yourself or else relay it for you. But discuss it with her first. As long as you have an email address defined, you can send her an email, by going to her talk page and clicking "email this user". Just remember to stay cool and civil, it gets a much better response from almost everyone than an angry argument. Good luck! -- Ben 00:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

You people are unfair to ask this user to change his name....Zoe should be ashamed of herself for acting like a bully....Aryan has explained himself many times, and therefore should not be blocked...75.17.17.16 04:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Hey now, I came into the discussion after you had already been blocked, Aryan, and from the comments at WP:ANI it looks like that won't be overturned. Now the question is what to do next.
  • Sit here limited to editing only one's talk page? (Doable, but confining.)
  • Keep fighting the block? (Good luck, but....)
  • Quit Wikipedia? (I hope not!)
  • Or agree to a name change? (Then what new name?)
If you know of any other options, please bring them up. -- Ben 08:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
How about being fair?....I was told to explain my name on my page....Which I did....I have two explanations on wikipedia explaining everything....So if im not a nazi...Not an anti jew....And if I explained that Aryan is my name & 818 is my area code....Why should I be punished?....ARYAN818 21:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Read Wikipedia:Username#Inappropriate_usernames. Near the start is says Wikipedia does not allow certain types of usernames, including the following: Confusing, misleading, or troublesome usernames: Your name may not be troublesome because it was made in Good Faith but it is confusing and misleading. Everytime you meet a new Wikipedian here you will be required to tell them Aryan is your first name and 818 is your area code to avoid any sort of confusion. Won't that bore you after a while? GizzaChat © 21:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
"Well then explain something to me....Because no one else wants to explain this to me.....I was told by more then one wiki authority/member that my account wont be blocked again because they will write in bold on my main page that my account should not be blocked again.....So why is it being blocked?.....They said it woulndt be blocked....and now it is....."
They were wrong.
What do u mean they were wrong? Who are u to say they were wrong? THey agreed with me. They were on my side. And they accepted my explanation. But your telling me all that goes out the window because people like u think there wrong? Who are u the president where we all have to agree with you? ARYAN818 07:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

"And tell me something else.....Since I have two warnings on my page that explain how my name is a common name throughout the world & that it should not be blocked....well then....why am I still being blocked?

For all the reasons that you've already been given. You just have to read them.
You didnt answer my question lol......I have been told that the reason im blocked is because some people think im a racist or something....EXAMPLE: ZOE.....She looked past my warnings on my page & asked me the meaning of my name.....So my question to u again is.....If I have a warning on my page that EXPLAINS my name....THen why am I being blocked?.....Please dont reply and say this has already been answered lol....Just answer me.....And let me remind u something.....ZOE & OTHERS have said my paragraph (the one in bold) was hard to read....SO that means they were obviously looking for an explanation....ARYAN818 07:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
......"O and one more thing I want to ask u.....Zoe (the person who blocked me) asked me for an explanation.....and i gave her my explanation....and she still blocked me anyway lol.....So why did she bother asking me for an explanation if she was going to block me anyway.......These are my 3 questions....and no one has the guts to answer them....ARYAN818 22:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
She gave you a chance; your response was rudeness and aggression. Now you wonder why people don't stick up for you. It's because, first, you're wrong, and secondly, your behaviour doesn't make you any friends. Stop pretending to be a poor innocent victim, get a new user name, edit sensibly, discuss things with other editors respectfully, and perhaps you'll have a better time here. Or you can just keep moaning on this page; it's your life. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Look at what u said.....I was being aggressive....Did u even read the comments I first typed to ZOE?....I clearly said to her....IVE ALREADY EXPLAINED THIS....AND THE EXPLANATION IS ON MY MAIN PAGE.....Now mel....That is not aggressive...That is not mean.....ITS THE TRUTH....So dont sit here & lie like i was always aggressive....I might be aggressive NOW....But.....at first....i repeat....at first.... I said to ZOE theres an explanation that explains my name....So please dont lie to everyone and say that I was always aggressive....THATS A LIE.....Now second.....Im not here to make friends lol.....THird......IM not pretending to be a innocent vicitm....What are u blabbing about?....My name is Aryan...my area code is 818.....Ive explained that....And im being blocked....SO dont be sarcastic with me and tell me im an innocent victim lol......And lastly.....Please dont pick and chooose my conversations....YES NOW im not friendly.....But that doesnt mean I WAS ALWAYS LIKE THAT......I mean I get this kinda bs from people like u all the time....Half the time u people say im being blocked only cuz im rude....THen when i PROVE to u all that im being blocked ONLY because of my name u say "WELL its because ur name is offensive......Then when i prove to u that my name is a common name u go back to saying...."Well its because ur rude"......COme on is this a joke ARYAN818 07:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
  1. Your user page doesn't explain the 818 part, which becomes two coincidences. Maybe that Wiki member doesn't know about the 818 connection.
  2. I only saw one warning. The thing is even if Aryan is a common name (I know it is, I have Indian origins), it doesn't stop the name being confusing and misleading like I said before. It isn't inflammatory or troublesome, because you didn't intend to insult Jews, but lesser educated people will misunderstand.
  3. You will have to ask Zoe herself. I guess that she didn't think your explanation was good enough. GizzaChat © 22:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
818 is my area code....Is anybody listening?....O wait I cant be sarcastic other wise that would sound rude....And if I sound rude then that becomes another excuse of why im being blocked....Cuz we all know it cant be JUST for the name ARYAN818 08:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
As I explained above, it doesn't matter whether the user is using the name innocently or not, as the policy says, if others can be offended by it, then it gets blocked. This person is spending far too much time arguing that they should be unblocked instead of actually making a new account and continuing to edit. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
See everyone?....I told u....THis ZOe person is just blocking me cuz of my name....Look at what she says.....IT DOESNT MATTER IF THE USER IS INNOCENT OR NOT...Other people are getting offended lol....She doesnt take into consideration that MOST people DONT get offended....She doesnt take into consideration that ive explained 1000 times that im purposly offending anyone because of my name....She doesnt take into consideration that Aryan is a common name....ANd the best part is....She doesnt even try to come half way and say "Ok i wont block u if u keep a paragraph that explains your name so others wont get offended....no no no my friends....She always wanted to block me , EXPLANATION OR NOT ARYAN818 08:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
If I was you...I would quit Wikipedia...Its not worth the agravation of dealing with these arrogant jerks sitting in their basements with nothing better to do than pretend how important they are because they can edit in Wikipedia...As for the name...you're saying that is your name and I believe it...No one is going to put himself through so much grief if it wasn't...Good God, people, look at the crap you have put this guy through...you think anyone would go through all this nonsense so that they could vandalize one of your precious pages AND WATCH IT GET REVERTED BACK BY ONE OF THE BOTS OR ADMINS ALMOST INSTANTLY?...Get a clue...as for the dots...these are common in early telegraph communications in parts of the world...of course you will probably accuse me of being ARYAN818 as well... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.96.18.5 (talk) 20:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

Yes, that's exactly who you are — peculiar dots, capitals, and general style included. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 12:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Ditto. Wiki Raja 20:51, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
You have both proved my point...I am not your ARYAN818...I am ART8641..please feel free to trace my IP address(which you can get from last month's comment above)...It is in a differenct part of the country than ARYAN...I swear to god that some of you guys can be dense as rocks...would it kill you to admit you could be wrong?

Sure, sure. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, ARYAN, you poor, poor bastard...

You know what's funny is that I would indeed advocate banning Aryan because of the fact that his "arguements" are rubbish. Everyone else seems to want to force him to change his usernmae as if this is going to magically change his personality or perhaps make his comments more palatable...If Adolf Hitler went by the name of "Percy Wentworth" and did the things he did, not only would no one want to have the last name, but he would still take a beating on Wiki, among other places for using the name "Percy" or "Wentworth" in an username even if he was a bright reasonable person who presented his arguements congenially...Something Aryan can't do...this is why I am mocking this exchange with Aryan because again, I think that most of his objectors are proceeding from a false arguemnt with forcing a name change...Then again, I should remember the old saying about arguing over the interent..."Even if you win, you're still mentally handicapped"...Art8641 March 7 2007

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