Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/NiMUD

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Note -- Some of these comments were transplanted by myself from the main AfD due to sprawl. No votes were harmed in the making of this move. — Adrian Lamo ·· 04:57, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

The google test is not an adequate researching method. Google turned up many responses, over 600. I might also like to add that Atari2600tim and Jlambert also carefully went through the Usenet archives research both NiMUD and online creation. It seems counterproductive and quite ludicrous that they both would now opt for deleting the article. Young Zaphod 18:05, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

• This is not true: "author has made discussion and edits impossible." because it's possible. The "original research" was conducted by User:Atari2600tim

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.

Atari2600tim's lies have been construed as a personal attack on the validity of this article contributions made by me and others. He's saying the article's author is to blame.  That's me, JLambert, and a bunch of others.  User:Ehheh is definitely a sock puppet of either User:Jlambert or User:Atari2600tim. I also accuse him of {{weasel}} Young Zaphod 17:49, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

:::*author did not create the page.  above statement is unproven.  Young Zaphod 17:54, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

You responded to my message with "Atari2600tim's lies have been construed as a personal attack on the validity of this article contributions made by me and others. He's saying the article's author is to blame. That's me, JLambert, and a bunch of others." and 5 minutes later with "author did not create the page. above statement is unproven.". You seem to have misunderstood it the first time and then got it, but what I was saying is that the author of NiMUD (Young Zaphod/Eggster/many anons) created the article (and thus I am referring to the -first- editor of this article, not all editors of this article), and is consistently inserting info that doesn't pass WP:CITE. Alleged "proof" consists primarily of things like "Well, I asked the author of NiMUD, and he says that everyone stole his ideas, so they must have" [1]. Similar "proof" would not be accepted on any other article, and is silly to even consider using. --Atari2600tim (talk • contribs) 00:26, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

• ==References==
• Template:Newsgroup reference Google
• Template:Newsgroup reference Google
• Locke (after he got legitimate accounts) Aug 19 1994 [2]
• Template:Newsgroup reference Google
• Template:Newsgroup reference Google First public release of NiMUD
• Locke's December 31, 1993 promise to release OLC on Usenet CthulhuMUD
• Locke is sabotaged by site admins on December 24, 1993 (source leaked) NiMUD is down
• Locke is losing his site December 7, 1993 Site problems with NiMUD
• Template:Newsgroup reference Google First mention of CthulhuMUD containing an OLC system (unreleased)
• Locke's September 1st, 1993 usenet posting CthulhuMUD Announcement
• More discussion of what "OLC" had meant to mudding, August 30, 1993 [3]
• Locke's original attempts at supporting OLC posted May 8, 1993 [4]
• Locke's original posts to Usenet once he got access to Usenet from his site in the UK, on which NiMUD was first developed May 1, 1993 [5]

I didn't say the article was unreferenced. I said the subject was non-notable. Usenet posts don't change this. --Karnesky 18:41, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

It's also of note that JLambert (aka Tyche) is in some sort of wierd relationship with KaVir, coder of Godwars and just can't live with the fact that Godwars has code that is based on NiMUD code. It's a personal reason, not a real reason, and anyone siding with them is being mislead. Young Zaphod 17:39, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Additional notes on notability (Young Zaphod 17:57, 19 February 2006 (UTC))

The Isles OLC became the source work for derivatives such as Ivan's OLC, EnvyOLC, ROMolc and ILAB/OLC. [edit]

ILAB/OLC ILAB OLC stands for I Love Amy Barr On-Line Creation and was a port of NiMUD OLC completed with permission from Herb Gilliland, surviving co-author of OLC, by Jason Dinkel. It was first released in December of 1994 for EnvyMud. ILAB OLC was derived from the OLC in The Isles 1.1 released in July 1994. The ease of its installation into Merc derivative muds led to it being ported to many servers including Envy (Merc's sequel project), UltraEnvy, Greed, ROM, Rot, Rogue, Pirate, Mythran, Oblivion, SunderMud and many others. From this version came EnvyOLC.

If any of these derived works are notable, I'll change my vote. None seem to be, though. --Karnesky 18:41, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

• See [6] [7], online creation, EmlenMUD, MUDs, [Category: MU* servers], [Category: MU* games], [Category: Multiplayer Games], MUSH, Godwars for more context and on this discussion and why this article should stay / is notable Young Zaphod 18:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
  • The reason the first link doesn't work is because he deleted that section himself [8] after referencing it here; basically, his first support of why NiMUD is notable is because he thinks I should masturbate with a cheese grater [9]. --Atari2600tim (talk • contribs) 00:38, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
    • The other articles only have links to NiMUD because YZ added them himself, some of which as recently as today [10] and hasn't been noticed by people yet. EmlenMUD is even less notable than NiMUD, so it's no surprise that nobody's watching the page. Online creation article was of course written by the same person as an ad to promote the notion that NiMUD did something noteworthy (proof of earlier MUDs doing the same things keeps getting deleted from the article by YZ). MUSH has been repeatedly fixed, and YZ keeps making unexplained links to NiMUD from it for some reason. --Atari2600tim (talk • contribs) 00:56, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
• This article is also mentioned on MUD_trees Young Zaphod 20:26, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

•EmlenMUD does run OLC from NiMUD that has been changed though the years. Infact EmlenMud is NiMUD code mixed around with Merc and Diku. As I remember TheislesOLC was released with either Merc 1.0 or Merc 2.0. Compared to other code bases out there who's OLC is messed up and takes more work then needed to make an area, NiMUDs OLC which is embeded in EmlenMUD is one of the easiest OLC's to work with. People lie about their work left and right. After all look at what Owen Emlen did with EmlenMUD. He claimed it was all orginal code. So when it comes to this world of MUD's who knows what is what anymore? Kilith_mpv 00:52, 02 August 2006 (UTC)