Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/"Snow"

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete and Redirect to "Poetry of Mao Zedong" (I'm pretty sure this is what everyone wanted from the conversation here... let me know if that's not the case) Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 23:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Snow"

Not sure but I don't think all of Mao's poems deserve an article... not sure about this one as I have never heard of it for sure. Anyways, it's also POV saying "Mao [is] a first-rate poet" and not sure about the copyright status of the translation. Neutral but should be at least moved to Snow (poem)-- Sasquatcht|c 03:12, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

• Just as a further note, there is also "Mount Liupan" Loushan Pass Three Short Poems "The Double Ninth" "Yellow Crane Tower" "Changsha" all made by this user and all pertaining to Mao's poems. Again, I'm not too sure all of them are that notable, would suggest merging information now that I see that there's that much to, say a page like Mao Zedong's poetry or something rather than leaving seperate stubs that may or may not be copyvios... Sasquatcht|c 03:17, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
• • I think it's a good idea to merge all Mao's poems to a seperate page. And I will do it. But please don't delete it just because you " never heard of it". I am sure there are huge amount of poetry in the world you never heard of. Again, copyright is not a problem.

Well, it's your opinion that Mao's poem doesn't deserve an article, but your never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This only means you lack basic knowledge of Chinese history and literture. As I have said in the article, it's considered by many Chinese to be a first-rated classic in literature. The copyright has no problem, since all Mao's work's translation are done by Chinese government and has no copyright.

By the way, I think your deletion of this article is too arbitrary. Please tell me where I can complain about this kind of behavior.

Yiyu Shen

• A couple of things, since it isn't copyvio, it should probably be over at Wikisource rather in an encyclopedia, also, it hasn't been deleted yet, I am not completely for deletion in fact and I even said that I would rather them be merged. And I never said it didn't exist and I read plenty of Chinese literature because I am Chinese but we also have some policy on Wikipedia that should be followed. Again, source material should not be on Wikipedia and should be transwikied and these stubs should be merged into a general article about Mao's poetry or in the very least moved to the proper naming conventions. If you truly wish to complain, you can do so here, on the talk page of the pages you created, but I doubt you'll find that people will be that much against me. Sasquatcht|c 03:24, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Delete and move to Wikisource as per nominator.--inks^T 03:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Better idea: move to Wikisource under the main banner of Poetry of Mao Zedong, then create an article detailing Mao's Poetry at Poetry of Mao Zedong then link to the source poems. Best of both worlds, you have the article detailing his style and influence then you have source documents that are linked to. How does that sound? I'd be happy to help finish that up. Sasquatcht|c 03:42, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree it could be better that I move all Mao's works to Wikisource and create a link under Mao's entry. But it just amazes me each movie, or TV series, no matter how trashy it is, can have an entry in Wikipedia, while a piece of poem with huge influences cannot. What's the guideline for you do deal with movies, and poems, or novels, differently?

• I think the difference is that the articles for movies and TV series are articles about the movie or show. This article is basically just the text of the poem. (Possible because the text of a poem is much shorter than the script of a movie or even the text of an entire book.) I think if the article instead consisted of a discussion of the poem and why it is important, it would not have been nominated to be moved to Wikisource.
• Keep, a poem which is far more notable than "Hungry, Hungry Homer" for example. Kappa 06:26, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I did a cursory search on Wikipedia and find these poems having full texts: Charge of the Light Brigade, Mariana, Ame ni mo Makezu, this is just a small sample and I believe there are much more. Now I wonder what the policy is. In my opinion, you justification of deleting my entry on Mao's poetry can only be one of the following four:

1) The rule is no full text of poems can be entered into Wikipedia, this has been proved false by above examples.
2) You think Mao's poetry have no high literature value, but this is just your personal opinion and is very arbitrary. The fact is Mao's poems are highly regarded by millions of Chinese people like me, and his quotes are often cited in daily conversations and in many other novels, poems, movies, etc. The truth is ordinary Chinese people enjoy his poetry very much, and trust me, they don't have to.
3) You don't like Mao, again, this is just your personal opinion, and it should has nothing with the literature value of his poetry.
4) You are afraid it will be a violation of copyright, for this as I have said, Mao's works has no copyright. It's available everywhere on the internet.

For above reasons, though transfering all Mao's poems to Wikisource may be a better idea, I don't think it's a violation of Wikipedia policy to create individual entries for some of Mao's best poems.

Yiyu Shen 09:59, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

• Well, actually, the rule is "no full text of poems, please". If you do find an article that has the full text of a poem, it shouldn't (and, in fact, of the three you mentioned, two of them actually don't, and I'm going to look into the problem of the third). Wikipedia is managed by volunteers who are always trying to make it better; but sometimes we don't know about a problem until someone mentions it. That said, I too support a) the move to Wikisource, and b) the creation of Poetry of Mao Zedong. DS 11:56, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

• Ok, I will move Mao's poems to Wikisource as you suggested and create Poetry of Mao Zedong. Thank you all for the kind suggestions and sorry for the trouble.

Yiyu Shen 12:18, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

• • Definitely the best solution. I look forward to reading the Poetry of Mao Zedong article... I wasn't even aware he wrote poetry.--Isotope23 18:38, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I have moved all Mao's poems to Wikisource and created Poetry of Mao Zedong, it's not completed yet. If you are interested please take a look at it and help me to improve it.

Thanks

Yiyu 20:29, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.