Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yankees Suck (2nd Nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry. --Ezeu 18:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yankees Suck

Does not require a Wikipedia article, but if there is a Yankees suck page, then there should be suck pages for all teams in the League. We can't have this. Patsyanks06 20:25, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• Doesn't require an encyclopedia article Knowing Is Half The Battle 19:20, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
• Strong keep. 268000+ google hits, nearly 200 mentions in the Boston Globe and Boston Herald. Notability is clearly established. The old POV problems haven't surfaced for some time. More to the point, "doesn't belong in an encyclopedia" isn't a specific reason. What part of the Wikipedia:Deletion policy does this violate? Stilgar135 19:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep. Notable well-documented chant that has become part of baseball lore. -- No Guru 19:32, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge to New York Yankees Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry as suggested below. Don't see the reason for own article Bwithh 19:33, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I was looking forward to the comments from the editors on the Yankees page if my original merge suggestion had gone ahead, but it looks like the guys below have a less incendiary response. (incendiary... herm... isn't that what Red Sox fans get up to in downtown Boston when their team wins? ) Bwithh 23:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Comment Perhars a sentance or two in the New York Yankees and/ or Boston Red Sox article might be appropriate. Knowing Is Half The Battle 19:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge relevant content to the Boston Red Sox Yankees-Red Sox rivalry article. Half the sources for this article are YouTube videos, which is a bit ridiculous. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 19:49, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment a youtube reference is appropriate for the particular claim, which is simply that the chant occurs in venues outside of New England. Stilgar135 20:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment Is there a page about the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry that this could go into? --Hemlock Martinis 20:03, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Response There's Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry which mentions the most important parts. Stilgar135 20:06, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• Merge to Boston Red Sox Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry. - Mike | Talk 21:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
• This one is an interesting case. It's referenced, and there's no doubt about the verifiability of the existence of this particular chant. However, it would be more efficient to Merge to Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry.-- danntm ^T _C 00:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Delete Strong Merge A chant about the Yankees sucking does not, I believe, qualify as "baseball lore." It is a mundane chant that could be done by any team's fans against another team that they are playing. The only signifance is that New Englanders in general (Red Sox fans in particular) yell this chant at non-Yankee related events. This suggests to me that, at best, this article should be merged with Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry. The fact that there are youtube videos of other teams chanting it is only significant in as much as that other team's fans feel strongly about the Yankees when in direct competition. Djdickmutt 01:22, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment- Yup. "Baseball lore" is exactly what this phrase has become as per articles in USA Today [1],[2] and MSNBC [3] or Espn [4] or the SanFransiso Chronicle [5] or the Detroit Free Press [6] or the Harvard Crimson. [7] It's also a book [8] -- No Guru 05:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Sorry, but, an insulting sporting chant? Really? We cover those now? Is an article on Grab your ankles or Air ball (chant) or You suck ensuing? Mention it as part of the rivalry (a few sentences max) and delete this. GassyGuy 03:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep or Merge to Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 04:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per GassyGuy. --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 04:25, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep If any of you had been to a Yankees sox game, you'd see how notable it really is. The chant is a notable part of baseball lore, because it has dominated the very idea of a Yankees-Sox rivalry.--64.121.58.61 12:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

  Comment I have no reason to doubt that it's a part of the rivalry, but that is not sufficient grounds for it becoming a standalone article. The Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry article is not over-long, and the shouts are already covered at Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry#Fan_involvement. I don't see that there is enough extra material in Yankees Suck to justify splitting out the fans' phrase, and the information in Yankees Suck would make more sense in the context of the main Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry article. --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 13:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. Obviously notable on its own. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge per above. --Pboyd04 01:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
• keep please this requires a wikipedia article because it is notable Yuckfoo 01:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment I don't feel like I've heard a single convincing argument yet for why this requires a standalone article. Chanting, whether it's "Yankees Suck," "Boston Sucks," or "Cubs Suck" is clearly a part of baseball rivalry. This particular chant would appear to only be notable because it is part of one of the most notable rivalries in all of sports. Include it in the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry page. Djdickmutt 22:11, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment. I'll do my best to expand on my points above. It a notable, well-documented chant that has also become a marketing phenomena and has sparked legal and civil rights debates. [9]. It is not simply a phrase that one team's fans yells at the expense of another team. This chant is well-documented and has influence in the way that a phrase like "Blue Jays Blow" does not. -- No Guru 22:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment I'll concede that it is a more significant phrase than "Blue Jays Blow" or any other chant directed at a specific team, but it still seems that the main reason for the phenomenon is because of the Yanks/Sox rivalry, and don't you feel that all of that could be covered with a merge into the Rivalry's article? Djdickmutt 23:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't. The rivalry is well known, without a doubt. The issue is that this phrase itself has taken on a life of its own outside the rivalry. It's referred to in non-baseball contexts, it's cited as one of the more unsavory aspects of sports chants, and it's responsible for a fairly consequential merchandising situation, to boot. If people search for "Yankees Suck," they're not looking for information on the rivalry, they want information on the chant and the things around it. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete or Merge with Yankees-Sox Rivalry Patrick Hurston 13:48, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete or Merge. Is not encyclopedic on its own, might make a good footnote. --Improv 14:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Yankees-Red Sox rivalry#Fan involvement. I've created Boston sucks as a redirect; neither chant needs a standalone article. JamesMLane t c 10:01, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge - although very true, it doesn't need its own article. Dubc0724 13:09, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge - for all the reasons stated above. Remember 16:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge per above, or delete. Notability is not the issue here—there's simply nothing of independent substance to explain or describe here. No matter how many people use this phrase or however much it's been used in marketing, it's still just a specific permutation of the generic phrase, "____ sucks," which merits at most a mention within the context of the team rivalry rather than being inflated into a standalone topic.Postdlf 16:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
• 'Merge or Delete The ESPN reference seems ok as one mainstream reference, but I look for numerous such. The Onion is a humor site, and there is a bare passing reference to the chant. The Infoweb sites are inaccessible without a password: if you would identify what the full citation is in the reference, we might find it through other portals. The home movies do not prove much. What is Anchorweb? The online version of a college paper? I do not to want to legitimize creating OR sites for every insult being applied to every insultable object of scorn. Edison 19:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment Infoweb access is explained on the talk page. Stilgar135 16:30, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Response Actually, I requested the Infoweb access, and it never worked as explained. Djdickmutt 06:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep, this is a very popular chant in Boston and is very notable among sports fans, however if the article fail to meet the Wikipedia criteria of notablility and whatnot then merge maybee to the Boston Red Sox page--Seadog^{Talk 20:28, 27 October 2006 (UTC)}

Comment I think a merge to Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry would make the most sense. Djdickmutt 21:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - there is precedence of chants on Wikipedia. See Glory Glory Man United, Category:Football songs and chants, Category:Songs popular at sporting events and Category:Sporting songs. Why not Yankies Suck?--Hamedog_Talk|^@ 05:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge to Yankees-Red Sox rivalry per other merge recommendations. --Metropolitan90 07:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Is this disscussion going to be closed anytime soon? The norm for an AfD discussion is five days, but this discussion has been comming up on two weeks. Knowing Is Half The Battle 17:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.