Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vicarius Filii Dei

This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page, if it exists; or after the end of this archived section. The result of the debate was keep. It is noted that there is an ongoing arbitration. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Skyring - Mailer Diablo 07:35, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vicarius Filii Dei

Speedy Keep This material is trivial and is covered in Papal Tiara, but I seem to have misjudged the keen interest in busting crackpot myths. To my mind the whole stupid myth could be exploded by simply pointing out that the papal tiaras don't have any inscriptions. Two lines instead of an article. But hey, let democracy rule in this peoples' encyclopaedia! I'll just bend over and let the people kick me a bit more. Pete 21:46, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Some background: The user above is a troll who is the subject of Request for Arbitration hearing for the POV interpretation he tried to force onto Government of Australia (including doctoring articles to state that Australia is a republic!). On that page he ignored the unanimous opinion of everyone over months. (The RforA is on the brink of voting to ban him for a year from writing on Australian government topics.) Because of that he has been waging a campaign of harassment against me for the last week (because I was one of the many people who stood up to him on Government of Australia).Of 102 edits carried out in one period, 100 were to pages I had edited a short time earlier, many of them trivial, with abusive edit summaries attached. He also added in abusive comments about on other users' talk pages. Tonight I added in images to this page and made some minor textual corrections. True to form, 42 minutes, the troll in question visited the page.

• (cur) (last) 04:53, 19 Jun 2005 Skyring (VfD. Trivial material covered elsewhere.)
• (cur) (last) 04:11, 19 Jun 2005 Jtdirl

Having failed to get a reaction in the last few days to his vandalism on anything I touched, he is now trying a new tactic and nominating pages I touch for deletion. For information on the troll's past behaviour see [1]

Regarding the article in question, his view that the stuff in the article is "trivial" is symbolic of the comic ignorance he has shown all over Wikipedia. It is not covered in Papal Tiara. A summary is contained on that page. Users wished the detail to be moved to a separate page to allow it to be covered in detail there, and a short summary to be kept at PT. That was done. It is a perfectly valid, well researched and well written page to which 34 users have contributed over two years. It nomination here is nothing more than the latest game being played by a troll trying to harrass people who refuse to allow him to POV insertions elsewhere.Keep FearÉIREANN\^(talk) 04:37, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Note: User:Skyring has now been reported, on the basis of this nomination here and his conduct over recent weeks, for harassment to the Requests for arbitration committee. Another user has also revealed tonight that he tried similar stalking on them. His nomination of this article here is clearly not a serious nomination but part of an ungoing bullying campaign against Wikipedians who prevented his claiming, among other things, that Australia is a republic on the Government of Australia article. FearÉIREANN\^(talk) 07:17, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Jim, I keep an eye on your edits because you can't spell for beans, you produce the most horrendously convoluted sentences and you get stuff wrong. You thought an Irish President's term was negative seven years, to name one example out of many, and I had to correct you three times before you accepted that you were wrong.[2]

Nothing personal here, you are to be congratulated for your research, and you are spot on about debunking the myth, but really, who cares about this stuff? Snopes.com, the repository of information about every possible legend, doesn't even mention this "papal tiara" thing. A search on Google yields nothing but references to this Wikipedia article. It's pure crackpottery. Pete 04:56, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Comment: Pete, please cite your Google search: [3] gives multiple relevant results outside of Wikipedia. Furthermore, your assertion that you are keeping an eye on his edits holds little weight when you are the one that is under RFA and he appears to have no problem producing properly spelled and grammatical sentences. --Barfooz (talk) 05:21, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Comment 2: Umm, sorry Pete, but this isn't crackpottery. This is an actual anti-Catholic myth. See my Google search. Also: A Seventh-Day Adventist Site, The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, St. Michael Center for Apologetics, and Envoy Magazine I've been a Catholic scholar for years, and I couldn't tell you know how many times I've heard this myth, in and outside class. -- Essjay · Talk 05:29, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Snopes doesn't list it. It may well be a longstanding myth but it's pure crap. Who really cares? Crackpots. As for jtdirl's edits - check out my contributions and you'll see what I was correcting. [4] [5] [6] etc. Pete 06:03, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Extremely Speedy Keep. This is a long standing anti-Catholic myth, and a dogged one. This article develops more deeply on what is said in the Papal Tiara artice, a very common practice on this site. As demonstrated above, it is most definately worthy of keeping. Refer the nominator to ArbCom per Jtdirl. -- Essjay · Talk 04:22, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Keep. Myth nearly as old as Protestantism, strong suggestion of bad-faith nomination. Xoloz 04:47, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - Nunh-huh 04:59, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. If this long detailed article were to be deleted, in view of people's da-da's, it'd just crop back up — in small and bad. Bill 09:54, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Keep of course, and sanction Pete Skyring for harrasment of Jtdirl, of course. El_C 09:56, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Strong Keep. A very interesting article. — P Ingerson (talk) 11:28, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Bad-faith nomination; interesting topic. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 11:57, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - I was quite fascinated at the 666 thing :-S Craigy (talk) 12:38, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep: The article does need copy-editing, sure. The writing could be stronger, you bet. That's not a matter for VfD. The myth reported here is one that I've stumbled across in my time among the eschatologically obsessed. It's hardly the only "The Pope is the anti-Christ" legend; it's just one more in the quiver used by the radical Protestants of the new churches. Anyway, the article should be kept, as it's quite good. Geogre 13:03, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Keep: That one source fails to mention this myth does not discredit this article, especially since many others do. However, the article does require a clean-up and a reduction in dot-points (not an overly effective way to convey that amount of information). Seemingly, snopes lacks scope.-- Cyberjunkie ^TALK 17:52, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Seems to be notable topic and good article. Capitalistroadster 01:24, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Discussion of long standing and prevalent crackpottery very much has a place on wikipedia. Its knowledge you might wish to look up, so it should be here. Francis Davey 16:27, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Ignore, except for sanctioning bad-faith/harrassing nominator. Jayjg ^(talk) 21:07, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Enough people believe this tomfoolery that you can't really cover the topic of the Papal tiara to any depth without dealing with it. Csernica 03:02, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be placed on a related article talk page, if one exists; in an undeletion request, if it does not; or below this section.