Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ultima Thule Ambient Music

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Aside from the potential bad-faith nature of this AfD's nomination, the COI concern (while valid) is irrelevant to the discussion of the subject's notability, which nobody has actually challenged. EVula // talk // ☯ // 15:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ultima Thule Ambient Music

Ultima Thule Ambient Music (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Non-notable vanity, self promotion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fell asleep on the way (talk • contribs). — Fell asleep on the way (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Delete, see WP:ORG and WP:COI/N --Dr. Who 20:21, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep if it can be demonstrated that this is a real radio show, however, running a search on the radio station's web site for the word Ultima yielded no results. Harvardy 20:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Obvious bad faith nomination by sockpuppet account that has no history apart from this nomination. Multiple press references + radio station websites for both 2MBS and 5MBS list the show. --Gene_poole 21:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Would have been nice to acknowledge the COI here GP.Garrie 22:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. I am an impartial observer. Have known about, and downloaded, archived programs from the station for a while. I also suspect that the nominator is a sockpuppet. Gardener of Geda | Message Me.... 02:58, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. -- Longhair\^talk 14:20, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Regardless of the COI - it is a long-running show on community radio. That pretty much is in itself notable. HOWEVER the article needs some improvement preferably from an independant contributor, AND some secondary sources because 2MBS-FM can say whatever they want about their own show.Garrie 22:29, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment: There are already 4 secondary reference sources listed, in addition to the radio station citations. --Gene_poole 02:41, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep Bad faith nom DXRAW 23:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - looks notable. But the WP:COI needs addressing. User:Gene Poole appears to be Ultima Thule's founder and producer George Cruikshank, so should not be editing this article. Tearlach 00:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment: I'm certainly the programme's founder - but there's no Wikipedia policy that prevents people writing about organisations they're associated with - so long as the contribution complies with WP:NPOV and WP:V - which this article does. --Gene_poole 02:41, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

There are nevertheless guidelines - Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, Wikipedia:Autobiography - that strongly advise against it ...

In particular, you should ... avoid editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with,

... and instead recommend participating on the relevant Talk pages and letting external editors do the actual writing. Nobody's saying you're biased; it's just a situation that's so commonly fraught with issues that the convention is very much against doing it. Tearlach 04:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm aware of the guidelines and the potential issues arising from them, and I have no issues with anyone rewriting or adding to my contributions in good faith. I've demonstrated this dozens of times during the 4 or 5 years I've been contributing to Wikipedia. --Gene_poole 05:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• Keep If you look through the history, you'll see that I considered putting up an AfD for this article (after shooting down an attempt at having it speedily deleted under A7), but reconsidered. My rationale (then and now) is that such a long-running radio show, with a compilation album and being broadcast on three different networks, is most certainly notable. Is there a COI? I don't care, because it doesn't matter. EVula // talk // ☯ // 16:40, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the removal of speedy deletion, but it matters a lot that it's COI. Wikipedia is not an advertisement site. Gene Poole should no longer edit anything related to his primary activities' economical interests, I think now it's really too much. Nothing personal, but I realize that he destroyed several contributors along the years, and possibly, before he harrassed them, many of them were good contributors. Dr. Who 16:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

In regards to the notability of the subject, which is the only relevant concept to discuss in this AfD, no, a COI does not matter. If you feel it reads as an advertisement, rewrite it, don't call for its deletion (such as tagging it for G11). EVula // talk // ☯ // 17:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

• Comment : Article rewritten. A bit. See talkpage. Gardener of Geda | Message Me.... 19:12, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.