Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tsherim Soobzokov

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep as nominatior and other delete opiner have withdrawn their opinions. GRBerry 00:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tsherim Soobzokov

I question the whole thing. In particular, the Google search seems to come up only with wikimirrors or extreme right-wing forums like [1]. Seems like the whole thing reeks of Protocols of the Elders of Zion-ness. Will gladly retract if anyone can come up with multiple reliable sources. Pascal.Tesson 01:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I've retracted the nomination. See below Pascal.Tesson 08:05, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

• Keep, Soobzokov has been mentioned by CBS News, Fox News, USA Today, Chicago Sun-Times, New Jersey Jewish Standard, CTV, The Washington Post, The New York Times, Boston Globe and the World Socialist Website. It seems Soobzokov was in some sort of CIA Nazi-related coverup.--TBCTaLk?!? 02:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Nearly all of those are reprints of the exact same AP article, which mention Soobzokov one time, and do not mention the incident this article is about. this link contains no information about Soobzokov. Can you explain? My Alt Account 02:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Note that Associated Press is one of the world's largest and most trusted news agencies. Also, Soobzokov played a large part in CIA coverup as the CIA continually misled U.S. immigration officials in the mid-1970s about the role of Soobzokov and his connection to Nazi war crimes. As for the New York Times link, the article does talk about Soobzokov, but (as with all Online New York Times articles) you'll have to register and subscribe first to read the whole article.--TBCTaLk?!? 02:36, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
      • I'm not questioning whether the AP is a trusted news agency, I'm pointing out that you just flooded us with a bunch of links to the exact same news article, each of which gives him 1-sentence treatment. Can you summarize the NYT info? I have no intention of subscribing... My Alt Account 02:45, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
        • First of all, note that not all of the links are duplicate articles, such as the links to New Jersey Jewish Standard, Boston Globe and World Socialist Website. Also the New York Times article basically states that the FBI concluded that the Jewish Defense League may have bombed Soobzokov, as based from external sources referencing the article.--TBCTaLk?!? 02:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
          • as based from external sources referencing the article? Are you seeing the same thing I'm seeing? Doesn't matter anyway, I'm still voting delete. As for the other stuff, I admit to ignoring the Boston Globe link because it was taking too long to load. I didn't read the NJ Jewish Standard link because it's not a major news org (and I'd just gotten done closing about half a dozen of the exact same article that you linked me to, and assumed it'd be more of the same). As for the World Socialist Website, I didn't bother checking that because I don't really consider them to be a news source. My Alt Account 03:05, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Comment actually what explains my poor count on Google is the misspelling of the name. The Wikipedia article incorrectly spells his first name Tsherim instead of Tscherim. I have to agree then that it could be kept although I have very strong reservations about the POV. Pascal.Tesson 02:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

• Retracting nomination per NYTimes reference on the bombing. I will move the page to its proper spelling and try to edit in a more neutral tone. Pascal.Tesson 02:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Hold up. That link goes to 3 abstracts. One mentions JDL bombings but not Soobzokov. The other two mention Soobzokov but not JDL. What's more, supposing JDL did bomb this guy, I still don't see a reason why he needs full article treatment! Is there any legitimate reason why this can't be covered on the JDL page? My Alt Account 02:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Well for one thing the AP article seems to confirm that

1. he had Nazi connections
2. he was a CIA agent
3. the CIA helped in covering up his shady past.

That sounds notable enough. I'm currently editing the article to bring that info in. Pascal.Tesson 02:58, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, now that we have the spelling right, Google spits out all sorts of nice little factoids about this guy. Like a vigorous defense of his record by Pat Buchanan! [2] Pascal.Tesson 03:01, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. I don't see enough info for an article. For someone who wants to dig through the sources, this may warrant an addition to the Jewish Defense League article. My Alt Account 03:05, 10 September 2006 (UTC) Keep. Pascal.Tesson really turned this article around! My Alt Account 03:57, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• With all due respect, I think you are being stubborn. Take for instance these two other links [3] and [4]. This is an interesting story. I'd rather have a good article that someone will actually care about than have this recreated by some neonazi conspiracy theorist next year. Pascal.Tesson 03:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm being stubborn because there's no basis for an article here. I imagine if I were a neo-nazi, I would prefer for this info to be in the JDL article because that might be a better way to smear jews. The Washington Times link there just repeats the info that's in all the other news articles, and does not mention the bombing. I couldn't open the fas.org pdf. Note that I never objected to this article on the grounds that it's false or offensive. My problem is that this guy is NN. My Alt Account 03:20, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• Weak keep. It seems like he is important enough to pass WP:BIO, though not by much. --Supermath 03:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment ok, I have rewritten the article. Now I would be very surprised if this does not satisfy everyone's notability threshold but I am open to comments of course. Pascal.Tesson 03:49, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
  • What can I say, you are good! Vote changed. Enough said.My Alt Account 03:59, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• Thanks. Man, anytime I'm doing categorization I hope I can actually find hidden gems like this one. Gotta love Wikipedia... Pascal.Tesson 04:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep This article should have been marked with a cleanup tag not a proposed deletion. Seano1 22:40, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Comment maybe the history of the AfD is not entirely clear from the above discussion. I had not realized the name was misspelled and so I could not find references other than very dubious ones. The text has in fact been cleaned up and the nomination retracted. The debate is dead and if I was an admin I would already have closed it myself. Pascal.Tesson 23:11, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.