Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Playboy Mansion (song)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 12:44, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Playboy Mansion (song)

The Playboy Mansion (song) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

It's just a song. No single was released. It doesn't have any cultural significance outside of just being a track on the album.

Also included in this nomination are the following for the same reasons:

• "If You Wear That Velvet Dress"
• "Do You Feel Loved"
• "Gone (U2 song)"
• "Wake Up Dead Man"
• "Miami (U2 song)"

-- Dismas|^(talk) 12:25, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - all listed. They are U2 songs, not some by some unknown. People are interested in them even if the nominator may not be. Admittedly more work could be done to work up the articles, including interpretations - there is enough sources around - but that can't be done if they are deleted. Gone and Wake Up are in a select group of songs to have been cited by singer Bono as among his favourite U2 songs.--Merbabu 13:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge. Yes, I've given this some thought and want to change my suggestion: these articles are excessive and this information should be merged into the Pop album article. (it will improve the Pop album article). However, I do not want to see this information deleted and lost. I may have time in the next few days to merge - but if it gets deleted, could the deleting admin please save the info somehow (and let us know) for merging. Deleting admin: could you please keep me informed. thanks Merbabu 03:19, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep all All pass WP:MUSIC being songs of the very notable U2. Akihabara 13:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Question, could you point out what part of WP:MUSIC these songs satisfy? Dismas|^(talk) 13:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
  • WP:MUSIC refers to musicians and ensembles, not songs. If you're referring to the proposed WP:SINGLE guideline linked to from WP:MUSIC, these songs meet none of the criteria listed there; being songs by a "very notable" act is not enough. Extraordinary Machine 13:53, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Merge all into Pop (album). That U2 are notable does not mean that every song they have recorded is notable. The vast majority of album tracks are non-notable, and these articles fail to establish the significance of these songs (apart from the sentence-long mention of the Q magazine list in the "Miami" article that could easily be merged into the album article). Readers of a general encyclopedia will not need to know that "If You Wear That Velvet Dress" was played at nearly every show on the Popmart Tour, or that The Edge used a Rickenbacker 360-12 to perform "Gone" on the Elevation Tour. A bigger problem here is the presence of original research and editorial opinion in these articles. Apparently "Miami" is "perhaps the most experimental track the band has released under its own name" - according to whom? "["Wake Up Dead Man"] is written as a plea from Bono for Jesus to return and fix the world" - who said this? "The opening notes [of "The Playboy Mansion"] strongly resemble that of a pornographic movie soundtrack" - again, where is this information coming from? None of these articles are referenced either. Extraordinary Machine 13:53, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Gone (U2 song) and Miami (U2 song) under any criteria - "Gone" is one of the most visible Pop numbers in later concerts, and is included on the group's The Best of 1990-2000 compilation. "Miami" is one of U2's most controversial and liked/disliked numbers, as the article indicates. Wasted Time R 13:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep the rest under pragmatic criteria - U2 is one of those artists at the pinnacle of critical and commercial success and fervent fandom where eventually, every song is going to have an article. Examples already exist in WP: every song of The Beatles has an article, even those like "Hold Me Tight" that McCartney no longer remembers. Every Led Zeppelin song seems to have an article, even ones like "Hots on for Nowhere" or "The Wanton Song" that don't have much to say (the article or the song!). Every Pink Floyd song has an article, even for albums before Dark Side of the Moon, even for songs like "Stop" that are only 30 seconds of connecting music, or songs like "The Hero's Return" that are unremembered tracks from failed albums during the group's breakup period. And so on. U2 isn't quite there yet, but it will be, and that's ok. It comes with the WP territory, like every Simpsons episode and every minor Star Wars character and every stupid video game all having articles. Wasted Time R 13:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: Another way to look at is that 1/2 a album that sold 7million copies is being nominated.--Merbabu 14:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Self-comment: I realize that I am arguing by the What about article x? principle, which is not especially favored. However, U2 still has a lot of songs without articles, especially from their early albums. If User:Dismas and the others are looking to start the Great Wikipedia Song Article Purge, there are other places to start that are even more appropriate. Wasted Time R 16:13, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep all six articles, as per Wasted Time R. Please note that WP:SINGLE is not official policy, and that WP:MUSIC does not cover individual song articles. A quick look at the guideline's talk page shows that this subject is highly debatable. If the articles are not referenced, add a ^{[citation needed]} template to them. --Kristbg 14:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete The odd external link not withstanding, all I'm seeing here is unverified subjective musical appraisals, original research and fancruft trivia. Miami (U2 song), for example, is a just fan write-up that flies in the face of WP:V, WP:NOT#IINFO, WP:RS etc. ""Miami" is perhaps the most experimental track the band has released under its own name. As such, it is a very polarizing song among the U2 fanbase." Says who? Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought. Albums and singles by notable artists are the subject of multiple non-trivial published works, individual tracks, in general, are not. There's more than a little WP:ILIKEIT going on here. -- IslaySolomon | talk 15:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete The tracks can be discussed on the pages for their respective album. This will probably fail, just as it's hard to get rid of Beatlescruft, but, seriously, just because the artist could arguably go on a list of the top 100 most notable ones doesn't mean that everything associated is also notable. GassyGuy 16:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all; I seem to remember (maybe on WP:SONG) that each song from a notable album deserves its own article. I may just be hopelessly out of date, though. --3M163//Complete Geek 17:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Merge/Keep Keep Gone (U2 song) and Miami (U2 song). Merge and redirect the rest with the album's page until there is enough information for them to be spun off into their own articles (if that day comes). —ShadowHalo 22:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Comments
  • 1. I have nothing against U2, I happen to have the CD that these songs are off of.
    2. If the articles are deleted, they can be readded later with citations for interpretations. They can be worked on in a User subpage. Although the fact remains that they are just songs that were never released as singles.
    3. I realize now that there are articles for every song by notable bands but I don't have the time to go around and tag everyone of them. I'd also rather avoid making a point.
    4. The articles consist of mainly technical details, such as the time of the song and its track number, which could and do already go on the article for the album, as well as tour details like how often it was played, if at all, which really should go on the article for the specific tour. If this info is taken out since it's already in those articles, all you're left with is a sub-stub.
    5. I'd like it if this whole song thing didn't devolve into WP:POKEMON.
    6. And finally, "The Hero's Return" is not unremembered. It happens to be a favorite song of mine.  :-)
• Dismas|^(talk) 09:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all; songs from a notable album by a notable band. Porce 12:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

so why is it preferable to mention them in individual articles, and not in the album article? there is actually, very little notable information in the song articles. Merbabu 17:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.