Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Brooklyn College B.A.-M.D. Program

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep, with a strong inclination towards a Merge. HappyCamper 18:28, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Brooklyn College B.A.-M.D. Program

Contested PROD. The subject, a specific program of study at a specific university, is non-notable; hence delete. Joe 20:58, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Brooklyn College's B.A.-M.D. is a notable program at the City University of New York. It receives 500 applications a year from some of the New York Tri-state Areas brightest students, of these, it only accepts 17. B.A.-M.D. is also a pipeline program that the princeton review mentions in its guide of medical schools under SUNY downstate, the major state medical school of NY and the only state school in NYC. Lastly, AAMC cites it under its book of medical schools with BA/MD programs. keep Mrbabymonkey

• Delete per Mrbabymonkey. I know he voted keep, but I believe his argument justifies the opposite. A program that accepts 17 students a year is not notable enough for an article, and can easily be covered in a paragraph at Brooklyn College. Fan1967 21:52, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• DELETE per Fan-1967. Bucketsofg 22:06, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• The program accepts 17 of 500, not to mention many more that are advised not to apply by school counselors due to the program's extreme selectivity (most students in the program finish in the top two percent of their class, and the median SAT score is in the 98 percentile). Also, the program has as much credence as the Sophie Davis School of Biomedical Education which the program rivals. Its status, however, is not disputed by the wikipedia edit community. Mrbabymonkey
• Merge with Brooklyn College, but I agree that the program is notable enough to be in the encyclopedia somewhere. -- Samir (the scope) धर्म 22:33, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• KEEP NancyV120
  • Comment All of this user's edits have been to this AfD. Joe 22:56, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. ConDem^Talk 23:06, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• KEEP. Combined programs are very different from standard pre-med undergrad in that they often have their own unique courses and curriculums. Although the Brooklyn College BA-MD program is affiliated with both Brooklyn College and SUNY Downstate, it cannot be grouped under either educational institution for this reason. It is simply different. This page is a KEEP. Pooja.bhatt
  • Comment User has made only two edits, both to AfD. Joe 23:23, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - as above. I believe there is sockpuppetry afoot! Wickethewok 23:50, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
  • check the ip addresses, no sockpuppetry here. Although i must say there is something awfully wrong when someone tries to add content to wikipedia but is shot down everytime for apparently little reason. What does it need to be notable enough to have its own page? does it have to be affiliated with an Ivy-league? Do you have a problem with the fact that someone who wrote about it is a "n0ob" maybe? Should I write a cute "about me" page first? B.A.-M.D. has been around for 37 years and is a fairly well known program in the New York tristate area. Just because the wikipedia deletion police has never heard about it, does not mean it does not exist. Wikipedia is for the people, not the select few who patrol it. Mrbabymonkey
• Delete. I agree with User:Mrbabymonkey that the Brooklyn College B.A.-M.D. program is real. However, I do not believe that Wikipedia needs to have individual articles about joint degree programs merely because they exist. The only thing that Wikipedia needs to say about this program is "Brooklyn College offers an 8-year B.A.-M.D. program with SUNY Downstate Medical Center," with a link to the program site at [1]. Just put that in both the Brooklyn College and SUNY Downstate Medical Center articles, and people can go look up the information about admission requirements, GPAs, etc. on the official site rather than including it in Wikipedia, much less in a separate article for the particular joint degree program. If you find any Ivy League affiliated joint degree programs with individual articles in Wikipedia, let me know and I will submit those articles for deletion too. --Metropolitan90 01:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
  • "If you find any Ivy League affiliated joint degree programs with individual articles in Wikipedia, let me know and I will submit those articles for deletion too." --Metropolitan90 01:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

well metropolitan90, ASK AND THOU SHALT RECEIVE. From U Penn: The Huntsman Program in International Studies and Business
The Jerome Fisher Program in Management and Technology
Nursing and Healthcare Management
and lastly, From Yale: Directed Studies Although the directed studies program is not joint-degree, it is also a "selective...study program."
After those have also been put up for deletion, I think it would be prudent if we found some books on selective studies programs and burned them. Mrbabymonkey

• I can do without the book burning, but give me a couple of days and I will submit those articles for deletion as promised, unless someone else does so first. --Metropolitan90 05:56, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
• KEEP The BA-MD program at Brooklyn college has been in existence for almost 40 years and has graduated over 600 physicians, almost all of whom are in active practice to this day in almost all fields of medicine ranging from primary care physicians in underserved areas, to cutting edge research, to highly specialized surgeons. By allowing this entry to remain, and added to, wikipedia allows those who search out physicians who have such a broad educational background provided by the BA-MD program a place to find them - via a (hopefully) eventual graduates list like many other educational institutions. Yes, the program is small, but that is what makes it unique. With so many high school students choosing to apply to such programs, and wikipedia increasingly being used as a de-facto search engine, this is an excellent way for students to find such relevant information. With so many articles on relatively useless topics ranging from cartoons to pornography, this entry has positive social implications and should be expanded upon.Chakrabs 02:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment User's first (and only) edit. Joe 02:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

• ""KEEP" This is a credible entry. The information is accurate as can be confirmed by comparing it to the linked websites. The number of students in the program has nothing to with whether or not this article should be included. The primary issue of concern should be the accuracy of the content. This article can be a source of valuable information for students who are applying to the program as wikipedia is becoming a popular source. Often time official websites can be hard to find or present a lot of information that can be presented in an intimedating way. This article allows students to learn about this program in clear way. Because the program is relativly small and many times unfamiliar to many potential applicants, an article about it is even more important. For these reasons this entry should be kept. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anon123 (talk • contribs).
  • Comment Notwithstanding that none of the justifications proffered is particularly relevant relative to the disposition of the question of the subject's notability, I should observe that this is the user's first (and only) edit. Joe 02:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

*Keep Schools should not be nominated. CalJW 02:05, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Forged signature This vote and the one below were made in the same edit at the same time by IP 172.134.137.77 - The sockpuppets are truly out tonight. CalJW has voted in some AFDs tonight. Not this one. It is fact a direct quote of his vote in the AfD for Williamsville North High School. - Fan1967 03:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Again, False accusation. Caljws IP is not 172.134.137.77. ALthough, it may be a direct quote from the williamsville entry, Caljws page shows him to be a reputed contributor to wikipedia. He's probably just being consistent. Mrbabymonkey

That's exactly the point, CalJW's IP is not 172.134.137.77. User:CalJW has not submitted any kind of vote or comment to this particular AfD discussion, as can be seen by viewing the history page for this section, or Special:Contributions/CalJW. The purported vote that appears to come from User:CalJW was actually submitted by the anonymous User:172.134.137.77 as can be seen here. --Metropolitan90 05:56, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Comment Not only do you appear really desperate, but you should at least be aware that every contribution is logged in the history, which clearly shows that CalJW never posted anything in this discussion. Fan1967 13:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

• KEEP This school has admission rate of 3.4% of its applicants with a median high school GPA of 3.8 unweighted and median SAT scores in the 98th percentile. That academic criteria alone only grants a student an interview, during which the students charachter, extra curricular promise, problem solving skills, cultural refinement, and interpersonal skills are evaluated. For nearly 40 years we have been offering a superb medical education while still allowing students to pursue the benifits of a liberal arts background at the minimal cost to the student. For example, the undergraduate education is FREE because these exceptional young students are elite to say the least. They defer admission to schools such as Dartmouth, Yale, Columbia, Georgetown, Cornell, Brown University, and Washington University St. Louis to name a few. Students in this program also have a mean MCAT score of 32.3 which is well above the national average, as well as the average MCAT score for matriculating students. By not allowing this program to have a full entry students who are very bright, talented, and the paragons of success may not have access to an education; furthermore, this page must be seperate from Brooklyn College's because most of these elite students are interested in the program itself, and thus may not be able to reap the programs advantages and opportunities if it is merged with brooklyn college's page - Ravi815 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.134.137.77 (talk • contribs).
• Comment - Strange how there are suddenly all these experts on this school's particular academic program coming out of the woodwork. Attempting signature forging grossly hurts your case, guy-who-wrote-this-article. Even if it is not the same IP address, it is clearly the same individual. Wickethewok 05:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Yes, because I, like most people, have at least 10-15 computers at my disposal. Perhaps, this program just effects more people than some of us previously thought. And hypothetically speaking, in the ridiculous event that I don't have 25-gazillion computers, shouldn't the movement of so many people to save one article, that is, to setup accounts and learn how to edit wikipedia, be enough to preserve this one article? Mrbabymonkey
    • Comment - I'd like to point out that any given college student has access to "25-gazillion" computers. And to answer your question, no it isn't. I'm pretty sure that editors who have actually spent time on WP, rather than new users who started just to protest this AFD, have more weight in issues such as this. Wickethewok 06:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
      • First, let us not be presumptuous, and assume I am a college student. Let us not assume anything including that these new users have set up accounts to protest this one issue. Second, the City University of New York is closed for passover break, and assuming I am affiliated with it, I certainly wouldn't have acces to "25-gazillion" computers at 2 in the morning. Mrbabymonkey
        • Comment - Ummm, we can clearly see that these users have been setup just for this. Anyone check any other user's contributions. Also, I did not suggest you were a student at the particular university you mentioned - that was all you. Wickethewok 06:16, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
          • It's only been their first day, most of us don't spend all day on wikipedia and therefore cannot contribute as much as others do, so quickly. And yes, that was my assumption, well observed. Mrbabymonkey
    • Comment The quality and ability of editors on Wikipedia cannot be based solely on how many edits have been made in the past. I have been an avid Wikipedia user for a while now. Just because I did not create an account and make edits does not indicate that I am unaware of how Wikipedia works and the policies that it keeps. I also particularly take offense to people claiming that I do not exist, and that I am actually just another of the gazillion computers at Brooklyn College run by Mrbabymonkey. It is in fact possible that more than one person exists who passionately and articulately expresses their defense of the page. You can check the IP addresses, and you'll notice that my computer does not have Brooklyn College's IP address. So for all of you "valid editors" of Wikipedia, I'm sure everyone would appreciate it if you backed off on your false accusations and trivial "comments" and just listened to what we have to say. Pooja.bhatt
      • It isn't. And your comments are welcome. However, since there is no way to distinguish accounts with no previous edits from people who've just signed up for one to influence an AfD discussion, their remarks are given less weight. Keep editing Wikipedia and eventually your comments will be given more weight (also because you'll start familiarizing yourself with Wikipedia policy). Fagstein 03:08, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
• Merge into Brooklyn College. It doesn't look like it needs its own article and the Brooklyn College article could use some more content. --TheKoG (talk|contribs) 13:08, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
• Merge into Brooklyn College. Ain't nothing wrong with having articles for degree programs, but the colleges article ain't too long yet. JeffBurdges 13:36, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
• Merge into Brooklyn College. Listing program requirements doesn't seem very encyclopedic to me; that's what the college's website is for. Ziggurat 22:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm Planning to improve upon it Mrbabymonkey
• Merge. Fagstein 03:08, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.