Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The 1948 Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE. Although many/most people would class the events of 1948 to be akin to ethnic cleansing, others would not. The title is inherently POV, and the contents are covered elsewhere. -Doc^g 23:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The 1948 Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine

The 1948 Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - (View log)

This article is guilty of many crimes - extreme POV (beginning with the name), soap-boxing, it's unreferenced, and it's almost unreadable. It's a small part from a recently uploaded and deleted article (for copyright reason), which was based on an unpublished book. okedem 15:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete inherently POV GabrielF 16:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel or Palestine-related deletions. GabrielF 16:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete same - crz crztalk 16:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Seems to be historical, as for PoV, that is something that should be discussed on a talk page, which no such discussion seems to exist. I have added three references, some wikilinks and a see also section. I wouldnt be surprised if this article was found elsewhere in more detail already. If one does exist I may be open to a redirect or merge, just let me know on my talk page. --NuclearZer0 16:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The whole issue is dealt with in in great detail in several articles, mainly Palestinian exodus, and Palestinian refugee. Also is Arab-Israeli conflict, and 1948 Arab-Israeli War (also, by the way, the counterpart - Jewish exodus from Arab lands). okedem 16:37, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Even the name is completely POV. okedem 16:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

There are forums to rename articles. I guess my next question would be, which of those articles deals with the actual claims of ethnic cleansing, not just mentions it as part of a larger article. If one exists I would be more then happy to change to delete. However it seems by the number of articles you can cite, there doesnt exist to be a parent article focuing on the topic only. Any info you have is well appreciated. --NuclearZer0 16:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The main claim is dealt with in full in Palestinian exodus. That's the whole point of that article, how and why so many Arabs left some areas in Palestine. Did they leave of their own accord? Were they driven out? That article deals with it. okedem 16:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete as POV Fork of Palestinian exodus, perhaps merge additional material into that article.--Dmz5*Edits**Talk* 16:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, fact is that the exodus of Palestinians was not originally a Israeli idea but caused by mass panic after a false news release on Palestinian radio Alf photoman 18:46, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
• SPEEDY DELETE COPYVIOL Article is a copy and paste (including article title) from this website. It falls under under CSD 12 (Blatant copyright infringement), simple as that. --Eqdoktor 18:49, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Moreover "The purpose of this article is to make the case for ..." means that it is a political pamhlet, not an NPOV article.--Ioannes Pragensis 19:46, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:POVFORK.--Jersey Devil 20:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete again. I already deleted this once as unsalvageably POV. Guy (Help!) 21:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per eqdoktor and okedem. --NuclearZer0 21:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. "The purpose of this article is to make the case for..." makes it clear that this article was intended to push a specific point of view - the very definiton of what's not allowed. We can mention this in Palestinian exodus, if we find some more references like those NuclearZer0 found, but it doesn't need its own article. Quack 688 09:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Actually it says what it says because its a blatant "copy and paste" copyright violation (the links and external refs are a later addition from a different editor) from a Palestinian website. It doesn't even set out to be a neutral encyclopedic article in the first place. It should have just been speedily deleted at the outset under CSD12 but I guess since there is already a discussion in place, the admins are letting it run its course. --Eqdoktor 11:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete G12 (copyright infringement) per Eqdoktor. That link didn't work for me before - it still doesn't. However, I did a bit of digging - the first Google hit for a phrase in the article is the link you provided. It's still down, but a cached copy confirms that this is a copyvio. (LOL, I guess I learned something from marking a bunch of copy-pasted essays as a uni tutor.) However, I still feel this topic should be briefly mentioned in Palestinian exodus - we just can't copy-paste this text, is all. Quack 688 12:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep This article deals with historical facts that has happened to the original people of Palestine, the delete requests are only POV from Israel supporters to cover the historical facts, Wikipedia is the soruce for knowledge. article is growing and more reference. will be included. 16:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.198.118 (talk • contribs).

The whole issue is covered in the Palestinian exodus article. There are so many different reason to delete this so called article, it's amazing. The copyright violation, the incomprehensibility, the extreme POV nature, starting with the very name, the fact it's completely unsourced. okedem 15:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:POVFORKShrike 18:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep (copyright infringement) removed, take into account GabrielF, Shrike and Okedem blatant POV. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.198.118 (talk • contribs).
• Okedemstop reverting talk page, I'm not voting twice, I'm just confirming my views on the historical nature of this topic, the moderaters have eyes to see. as bad as the title sounds it is something Israel has done to the Palestinians, Okedemyou confiscated thier land, here you are after them to confiscate thier right to talk about. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.198.118 (talk • contribs).
• Okedem DON'T REVERT THIS TALK PAGE —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.198.118 (talk • contribs).

Everyone, please note that this anonymous user has already voted, above. He has also changed comments by Quack 688, and Eqdoktor, by putting a strike through their vote.

And to you, anonymous user, the whole topic is already covered in another article, so this one is a POV fork, and should thus by deleted. Perhaps you'll also learn that attacking other users is frowned upon. okedem 10:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

• Strong (and should be actually speedy) Delete Doesn't add any new information , already covered in dozens of articles on wikipedia, starting from 1948 Arab Israeli War to Palestinian exodus etc. In fact, Palestinian exodus is the NPOV name for ethnic cleansing I guess. Amoruso 00:40, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

In fact, it adds lies - like saying "The "Jewish Quarter" in Jerusalem was created as a result of the transfer of Palestinians...", when the Jewish quarter has existed for ages, and its Jewish residents were driven out by Arabs in 1948. okedem 10:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

• Comment - Um, 24.209.198.118, during this AfD, you've done the following:

- Restored NuclearZer0's keep comment (a comment that he struck through himself). [1]

- Put a strike through comments from Eqdoktor and myself, not once but twice - even after Okedem used an edit summary to tell you it was inappropriate. [2] [3]

- Voted keep twice, as shown in links one and three above. For the record, saying keep in bold text twice, as you've done, is voting twice.

I've restored everyone else's posts to their original forms, but all I've done to yours is add unsigned comments. I don't know what the exact procedure around here is for acts like these, but I'm sure a kind soul will enlighten me. Quack 688 11:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. All that aside, back to the article. If a few people have publicly referred to the Palestinian exodus as an "ethnic cleansing", that should be at least mentioned in that article. Some of the sources listed here could be used over there. But all this article is doing is attempting to establish an "ethnic cleansing" case by itself. Comments like "The Israeli occupation government uses a racist ID card system" are irrelevant. Does one of the sources listed actually say that this ID card is an ethnic cleansing tool? Or are you simply using this claim to build up your own argument? Quack 688 11:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment Palestinian exodus has happened in the year 1948 and is not the same as the continuous “ethnic cleansing” , I have referenced many articles using the term “ethnic cleansing”.. What else do you call the “tactic” of a government using a special policy of house demolishing, special ID card system, special planning permission and building laws, temporary residency ID and ID card revocation against a sect of its own residents…. But Ethnic Cleansing tactic

Moderators please look at most of the above voters’ profiles and IPs and take NPOV into account. This topic is not covered anywhere else and deserves its own page to have extensive coverage —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.198.118 (talk • contribs).

First off, what you're doing is attacking users for their identity and nationality. Stop it at once. My personal opinions have nothing to do with this (nor do you know anything about me, except that I'm an Israeli. Guess that makes me guilty of whatever it is you're claiming).

We can all read, and the name of that article is "The 1948 Ethnic Cleansing...". If you want to talk about other time periods, you're dealing with the wrong article. More so, what you want is a partisan article, advocating your own POV. You won't get it. If you have any meaningful, well referenced data, you can use it to enhance existing articles. Otherwise, go open up a blog for your rants. okedem 18:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Um.. saying you don't have a NPOV is not attacking you, unless you want to feel so....

This article is in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines on Citing and the content is varifiable.... according to wikipedia your views fit here [bias] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.198.118 (talk • contribs).

• Delete this inherently POV article, Tewfik^Talk 05:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

• This article doens't meet the listing policy for AfD, its spelled clearly in the deletion[Policy]. no matter what the vote result outcome is, this article doen't meet the deletion policy it and shouldn't have been voted on in the first place....This topic is not covered anywhere else and deserves its own page to have extensive coverage Saying the truth 21:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment: Although I do not endorse the existence of this article, the listing of this article for deletion was done in bad faith. No debate occured on talk page, no attempt was made to move to an appropriate name. No discussion of any sort was made to come to an agreement with a user who is apparently very new. Also, the POV argument doesn't hold in light of Rwandan genocide. I suspect the intention behind deleting this article are just as POVish as the intention behind creating thsi article.Bless sins 22:08, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Putting aside the POV fork issues, this article merits deletion as a copyvio. Tewfik^Talk 05:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
  • The copyright violation issue has ben taken care off and dosen't exist anymore 24.209.198.118 12:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Please don't accuse me of bad faith. The article was created, and then deleted as it was a copyright violation. Then it was recreated, only shorter. It was copied from some website, based on an unpublished book. Apart from the copyright violation, it's a POV fork of Palestinian Exodus, written to advocate a certain viewpoint. As such, it should be deleted. It still should, as no one can even make up their mind what this article is trying to talk about (even the user who uploaded it called it "1948...", and then claimed it's about today as well). For allegations about current issues, there's Allegations of Israeli apartheid. This article looks like an opinion column, and has no place here. Also, the user has engaged in personal attacks, using ad hominem tactics, and attacking users (such as myself) for their nationality. okedem 21:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

you keep saying based on unpublished book, which is not true

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine

A you may also want to have a look at some results of a quick search on Amazon

Israel/Palestine: How to End the War of 1948 (Paperback)
Speaking The Truth: Zionism, Israel, And Occupation (Paperback)

Ethnic Cleansing
Records of Dispossession: Palestinian Refugee Property and the Arab-Israeli Conflict (The Institute for Palestine Studies Series) (Hardcover)

if this is not enough, I could bring whole a lot more references....

If you don't remember the article you copied from, that's your problem, but it stated it was based on an unpublished book by Illan Peppe. okedem 03:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Please keep your POV out of Wikipedia 24.209.198.118 01:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete as POV fork. Beit Or 20:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

• • Maybe a reference from former US president Jimmy Carter is enough? Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid 24.209.198.118 02:30, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

You only strengthen my claim - there's alraedy an article for this - Allegations of Israeli apartheid - thus, this article should be deleted, being a POV fork. okedem 03:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

• Improve and keep or delete but still open for re-creation. Peace. --Nielswik_(talk) 10:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.