Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ted's Kiddush

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. -- ( drini's page ☎ ) 08:01, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ted's Kiddush

This kiddish club lacks notabily and does not belong on wikipedia Jon513 19:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, if the assertion that its notable around the world can be verified perhaps merge somewhere, otherwise just delete it. Thryduulf 13:39, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, I posted this for deletion since I live in Jerusalem and have never heard of it, nor have anyone I know Jon513 21:21, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, possible speedy as {{nn-club}}. Stifle 12:51, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Per discussion on WP:DRV I've restored this article and am re-opening the AfD discussion. Please note that this should not close until five days after this date. howcheng {chat} 16:52, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, non-notable kiddush-cruft. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:12, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

:(this user is a member of the Association of Deletionist Wikipedians) Billingdude 01:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Billingdude's only "contributions" have been to this AfD. --Aaron 23:16, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Comment: How is that relevant? Stifle 15:20, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Though it can't be speedied due to the WP:DRV discussion, I agree with Stifle that it qualifies for {{nn-club}} as an A7. --Aaron 18:18, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Per above; there's not a single reference to this particular "kiddush club" on Google, which seems odd if it were true that "Jews from all over the world make special visits to Ted's Kiddush in Jerusalem." (the only claim of notability in this article.)—Leflyman^Talk 19:27, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Comment: As a sudden slew of seemingly newly-formed accounts have appeared to vote on this AfD, please be aware that the basis of whether an article is qualified for inclusion on Wikipedia is not one's personal opinion/experience, but Verifiability of the content, based on citation of sources-- which is neither provided, nor available for this article. Additionally, sockpuppet accounts which are created solely to vote on AfD tend to be looked upon with extreme prejudice. Sorry.--Leflyman^Talk 00:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

* I live in Philadelphia, PA and have heard about Ted's kiddush club in Jerusalem. The club is a wonderful club and brings in people from all walks of life and provides them with food and drink. Its the ultimate club!

(this unsigned comment by User:Goldameir, who appears to be a sockpuppet) -- RoySmith (talk) 21:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

*Keep Listed - I live in Jerusalem and travel around the world for work. This club is world renown in Jewish circles. Billingdude 21:52, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

(another sockpuppet, only contribs from this user are to this AfD -- RoySmith (talk) 22:20, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

• We can't take personal experience as a valid source to verify all this. Please cite reliable sources. - Mgm|^(talk) 22:41, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

*Keep Listed Obviously since I asked that the speedy delete be reversed on this one I feel it should be re-listed. It doesn't surprise me if there is nothing on Google as the club is based on word of mouth. Personal experience has to have some value - if 100 people attest to something isn't that better than one website?? Just my 2 cents --Listedit25 23:22, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

(this user's only edits are related to this article) -- RoySmith (talk) 23:15, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

*Keep Listed - I live in New York and have traveled to Jerusalem a number of times on business and pleasure. I have attended this Kiddush along with up to 50 other people on a given week. It is not in fact renowed throughout the Jewish world, however, it is well known among a wide circle of Jews from all walks of life (though mostly single) in major cities throughout the world, so I'd vote to keep it listed. Especially since this "Kiddush Club" is not a group vying for greater visibility, a Wikipedia reference for this topic is not an attempt at self-agrandizement. I think it could be useful reference for on off-handed remark by someone in this clique on a website, such as "My wife and I met at Ted's Kiduush about 4 years ago." Without this article, the rest of the world would be lost. Consider it a piece of jargon from a select subculture, an anthropological nugget, if you will. -- dovwas 00:10, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

(this user has contributed a total of nine edits; this is the only one within the past year) -- RoySmith (talk) 01:24, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

• Delete cruft.Blnguyen 00:42, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

* Delete as non-notable sockpuppet magnet. Adrian Lamo ·· 01:00, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

No vote, in deference to User:Kiddush Ted's unusually (for AfD) polite post. Adrian Lamo ·· 11:37, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

*Keep Listed - ARE YOU KIDDING? Anyone who's anyone knows about Ted's Jerusalem Kiddush club! (Ted also known for an abundance of other fabulous qualities: he has the most quietly hilarious sense of humor; he has a secret recipe for a much-talked-about chulnt and he is the world's greatest steeler's fan). Definitely keep this item. (UTC)

• • —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Billingdude (talk • contribs). (this user has 5 contribs, 4 to this AfD and the first relating to this article when it was at WP:DRV - not a noted haunt for most new users) Thryduulf 01:43, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Billingdude has also already voted above. Thryduulf 01:44, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

*** I did not post this unsigned comment! I do no know how that "fact" was established. I have no need to post multiple comments. My comment above is enough for my views on the matter Billingdude 04:34, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

• • • Actually, as a correction, the preceding comments were by anon user 222.65.101.41 (whose only contribution is this AfD, so yes, another dubious vote) —Leflyman^Talk 05:02, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Notability not established (I do not count sockpupets as proof). Pavel Vozenilek 02:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Pavel Vozenilek - sockpuppets do not satisfy WP:V -- Thesquire (talk - contribs) 06:02, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• Merge any verifiable information into the Kiddush Club article. Crypticfirefly 06:08, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Listed As a frequent visitor of Jerusalem for the Sabbath, I look forward to opportunities to join Ted's Kiddush whenever I can. Furthermore, IMHO, notability can be considered a subjective topic and I find that those who are unaware of the importance of Ted's Kiddush to the Orthodox Community of Katamon simply need this wiki as a reference that may just possibly spark their souls to join!-- hubscubs

(unsigned by another single contribution anonymous user) -- RoySmith (talk) 13:22, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

*Keep Listed I live in Jerusalem and Ted's Kiddush is an institution. Obviously not everyone in a city of 800,000 people would know about it, but it is very well know. I had heard of it for years before I finally attended what is certainly an 'event' in Jerusalem, not to be missed. It's not unsual to see people for half a dozen countries at Ted's kiddush. trauring 2:46, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

(I'll give you one guess how many contributions this user has) -- RoySmith (talk) 15:32, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

• Sigh. Look, folks, I'm sure Ted is a very nice guy, and I'm sure the Kiddush is important to the small circle of people who frequent it, but that doesn't make it a topic for an encyclopedia article. Let me try an analogy. I work for a company which has a wikipedia article about it. It deserves the article because it's an international company with 25,000 employees worth $30 Billion. But, my particular office doesn't have an article about it. It's a nice office. It's very important to the 100 or so people working in it, and I can certainly count people from more than a half dozen countries. We even have three (that I know of) husband-wife pairs, although I don't know for sure that they met while working here. We've probably got Steelers fans, and I know some people here who are good cooks, some of whom probably have a good chulnt recipe or two on their hard drives. None of this makes the office worthy of having a wikipedia article written about it. The goal of Wikipedia is to document things which are important, not as a tool to make things important. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:53, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Lol. Roy I appreciate the humor of your response and get the point. I also accept the logic. I realize that you (and the others) are probably extremely annoyed by what you call "sockpuppets", but realize that the people who posted here were not trying to manipulate the process by making something seem more important than it is. They were simply trying to counterbalance Jon513's claim that it must not be a notable group because he lives in Jerusalem and has never heard of it. If THAT was the basis of the decision to remove the article then the decision was flawed. But if, as you have all clarified, the criteria for proving notability is citation of sources (and not personal experience), then the group probably does not meet Wikipedia's definition of notability. One thing to consider, in general, when you all debate the idea of notability - perhaps "Google" should not be the test of notability for ALL things. With or without Wikipedia the kiddush will go on, and I invite Jon513 to come and enjoy (drop by Chovevai synagogue around 11ish and ask around). And Roy, if I promise not to write "keep listed", will you promise not to point out that this is my only contribution? Regards from the Holy Land. --Kiddush Ted 18:30, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
    • OK, it's a deal :-) -- RoySmith (talk) 19:46, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Despite the claims made by the sockpuppets, nothing has changed which would cause me to think that this subject has established its noteworthiness. User:Zoe|^(talk) 21:04, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: For ease of reading, I've gone in and stricken all false votes by sockpuppets/meatpuppets. Nothing's been removed, just crossed out. --Aaron 23:16, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: this is with regards to user Aaron who has decided to take matters into his own hands and cross out statements made by sockpuppets or meatpuppets. well, my comment was crossed out above and i am neither. i have contributed in the past and have only one username. so, get your facts straight first. secondly, i find it inappropriate to have a balanced discussion if the comments that he finds unfit are crossed out! please do refrain from this kind of underhanded practice! --hubscubs

• Additional note: "hubscubs" has a total of 10 edits (including the one above), with major edits only in "Kiddush"; he was not logged in when voting, and has changed the anon IP above to his name, which was not the case when the comment was struck. Thus, I have removed the strike tags. However, I would suggest he reflect on the policy of Verifiability. Wikipedia is not a tool for promotion of clubs. —Leflyman^Talk 19:26, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.