Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/South Jersey Radio Association

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. ST47Talk 11:39, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] South Jersey Radio Association

South Jersey Radio Association (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - (View log)

Claimed to be "the oldest continuously operating amateur radio club in the United States." Claim has not been reliably verified, see Talk:South Jersey Radio Association. But even if it were properly verified, and even if that would count as a good claim to notability, actual notability of the organization can only be shown if the organization has been profiled in reliable, unaffiliated sources. Pan Dan 12:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

• Keep ARRL club record shows them as being affiliated since 1920. Anything with that long of record seems worthy of inclusion. This is not some group that formed in a highschooler's basement. They have been around for over 85 years. StuffOfInterest 12:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Besides age (see arrl listing from StuffOfInterest above ) Club also hosts the VHF Colonial Award. Anonym1ty 16:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

See also http://www.courierpostonline.com/columnists/cxri062704a.htm for an unaffiliated source (listed in article). Also added reference to club found in congressional record in 1917. Anonym1ty 17:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

The claim to notability has still not been reliably verified. Repeating the point I made at Talk:South Jersey Radio Association regarding the Courier Post article: that article says "The South Jersey club ... describes itself as the oldest in continuous operation in America" (my emphasis). Clearly the journalist who wrote that article did not check the fact, he just relied on the organization itself. Pan Dan 20:22, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

See congressional record for 1917, the club is listed there in 1917 (ref in article now). Though not a direct reference of the date, the information there is one hell of a support to their claim of their age, also listed in the newspaper article, and also listed by the Milwaukee club's history. With the list of their own club records of presidents, If that ain't enough for you I don't know what to tell you.

From (1917) Radio Communication: Hearings before the Committee on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries - House of Representatives - Sixty-Fourth Congress - Second Session on H.R. 19350 - A Bill to Regulate Radio Communication - Part 1 - January 11, 12, And 13, 1917 Page=221.

Speaking is Mr. Charles H. Stewart:

"...I am here representing the Wireless Association of Pennsylvania, and also by special request the radio associations of Germantown, the South Jersey Radio Association, of Collingwood, and the Atlantic City association..."

This is also a very historical piece in radio, part of this was discussing the turn over of radio regulatory authority to the commerce department and it also includes testimony from Armstrong regarding the regenerative receiver and patents and the effects of this legislation in the face of the first world war and the amateur radio operator.

I still say Keep I understand notability requirements are met, even if you refuse to believe they are the oldest club, the club is listed in the congressional record, it hosts a national contest, it is listed in a non ham publication, it is affiliated with the ARRL, it runs a communications repeater. Even if you put age aside it's still notable. Anonym1ty 21:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Even if all those things you mention, including being the oldest, are verified, none of them indicate passing WP:N or WP:ORG. Pan Dan 00:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh and their list of presidents on the discussion page does cover the CONTINUOUS aspect of it too Anonym1ty 22:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Regarding your evidence for being the oldest continuously operating amateur radio club: this is original research. The point is not whether I (or any Wikipedian) believe the claim. The question is, has the claim been reliably verified by external sources? Pan Dan 00:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:N Organizations are usually notable if the scope of activities are national or international in scale 13 colonies award; inclusion in congressional record. WP:N was met. WP:N Inclusion in third party published materials. The club has been included in third party published materials. WP:N has been met. We don't even have to talk about their claim of age, WP:N was met. Anonym1ty 17:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Mere inclusion in sources is not enough to show notability. The third-party sources have to be non-trivial, because there has to be enough third-party source material that we can use to write a Wikipedia article. According to your description of that section of the Congressional Record, the subject being discussed there was radio regulatory authority in general, not South Jersey Radio Association, which was only mentioned in passing. The VHF Colonial award has apparently been noted by zero external sources[1] and thus information about it is neither noteworthy nor reliable. Pan Dan 00:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

• KEEP, The article is well-written, relevant to the subject of many other articles on the same topic which ARE allowed, and meets all the requirements for an article. I do not see why other less-worth articles should stay but this one should be deleted. --The Great Radish 19:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Please see WP:POKEMON. Also, I want to emphasize that I don't think this article or this organization is lacking "worth." It's just that I don't think it belongs on Wikipedia. Pan Dan 00:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep The factual information is well cited and notability is documented by the listed awards and achievements. thistlechick 19:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • What awards and achievements? The organization does not claim to have to have won or achieved anything special. The one claim to notability (being the oldest continuously operating amateur radio club) has not been reliably verified. Pan Dan 00:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.