Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sorin Cerin

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Mailer Diablo 19:42, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorin Cerin

Was prodded but users objected on talk page so I'm listing it for deletion. My argument on the proposal was that, as an author, his work from two year has a sales rank around 2 million and his more recent work just published still doesn't have a ranking. On the talk page, an argument was made that he was notable due to his mention on the deleted (admittedly, by me as nonsense) Neo-ontology article and there were concerns that Amazon sales rankings are useless in determining notability for a philosopher. However, a Google search on him shows little information. I don't read Romanian so somebody who does maybe sees something on his page there that will help determine verifiability. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nomination. I read the Romanian article, and apparently the man is only "notable" for having *probably* been threatened with physical harm by the Romanian ambassador in Australia. The links for his novels don't appear to be functional anymore, the book relies on obscure references to "acclaim", and the man is likely to be ignored by all but five Romanians (as I am sure he is completely ignored by Americans, Chinese, etc.). Dahn 20:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
• Neutral for now. Repeating my remarks from the talk page:

  I have no way from reading this entry to see whether Cerin is notable. I would agree with one remark made above: Amazon rankings are a useless measure of whether a contemporary philosopher is significant. Virtually no contemporary philosopher has significant book sales.

  The question is: what is the positive evidence of notability? Is he being taught in the curriculum of at least one major university? Is there a review of one of his books in some reputable publication, either a significant specialist publication (for example, one of the many listed at [1]) or a generalist publication (New York Review of Books, Times Literary Supplement, etc.) or even a review in a significant newspaper in almost any language? If not, can the person who suggests keeping this give some other evidence of notability beyond her personal opinion? - Jmabel | Talk 22:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

  Comment I agree with that point. I did look at google first and while I didn't mention it in the prod summary, given a very small online footpoint (I can't even find a biography of the man anywhere, even from a website of his own), I doubtful of any material that would be useful for verfiability, not alone to argue notability. I think the fact that the website that was listed for him in this article consists of free webhosting service which has now cancelled the account speaks for itself. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete. Anittas was kind enough to send along this link to an article in Clujeanul, a newspaper from Cluj. In Romanian, sorry, but it basically says that he has sold only 10 copies of his book, has lied in Romania aboug it being a best-seller, and that noted Romanian publisher Humanitas called his novel Destiny "unpublishable". - Jmabel | Talk 16:58, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. He has 32 Google hits in English. [2].

There are 2 Google book references referring to his own book [3]. He comes up empty on Google Scholar [4] and Google News [5]. In short, he fails to meet our verifiability guidelines as there are no reliable third-party sources available to write an article about him. Capitalistroadster 00:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

In fairness, I am adding the following, which was posted to my user talk page; I think, however, that the Clujeanul article cited above casts enormous doubt on this. Also, the idiosyncratic punctuation somewhat resembles that shared by "Alicia ,Yale University", so sockpuppetry is a possibility, though by no means a certainty.

Again, despite the Clujeanul article, if he is being taught in the curriculum of at least one major university, if there is a review of one of his books in some reputable publication, or even a review in a significant newspaper, I would consider. However, it is clear that any article on him would have to include Clujeanul's accusation of bogus self-publicity.

Va scriem din partea unui grup de intelectuali romani din America de Nord si Europa care va multumesc.Am urmarit cu frenezie fenomenul Cerin .Era cat pe ce sa-i fie stearsa pagina din enciclopedia engleza daca nu a-ti fi intervenit dumneavoastra.Motivele invocate erau pe cat de puerile pe atat de banale.Numar de carti vandute ,etc.Mai trist este ca tocmai un roman a sarit sa afirme ca despre Cerin nu se afla in enciclopedia romaneasca decat episodul Australia.Daca noi ne batem joc in fata strainilor mintind numai de rau despre valorile noastre cine sa le apere,tot strainii?Mai ales ca un filozof nu este mare prin numarul de carti vandute cu toate ca Cerin a vandut destule in anii trecuti avand alte sales rankuri pe Amazon,[www.sorincerindestiny.go.ro]ci prin propria sa teorie unde introduce termenul de neo-ontologie.Putem fi contactati prin comunitatea romana din Sacramento California.R.Vidu —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.104.189.107 (talk • contribs) 30 July 2006.

I'll do my best to translate the above. If I get anything wrong, someone can feel free to correct me.

Attempted translation:

Mr. or Madame Jmabel
We write you on the part of a group of Romanian intelectuals in North America who thank you. We have finished with the wild phenomenon Cerin. The page in the English encyclopedia would have been stearsa [sorry, don't know this word & cannot find it in the dictionary, I presume "erased"] if you had not intervened. The motives invoked were the most puerile and banal as well. The number of books sold , etc. The saddest is that a Romanian in particular has leapt to affirm that there is nothing about Cerin in the Romanian Encyclopedia other that the Australian episode. If we mock ourselves in fron to foreigners meaning only bad about our values, who sa le apere [again not sure of this "will appear" or some such?], all foreigners? [I may have misunderstood that; correction welcomed.] Besides that a philosopher is not big through the number of books he has sold, with all that Cerin has sold just in the last year having a high sales rank on Amazon, [www.sorincerindestiny.go.ro] but through his own his own theory where he introduces the term neo-ontology. We can be contacted through the Romanian community in Sacramento, California. R.Vidu

End translation. - Jmabel | Talk 17:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Sa le apere="to defend them". The following two words translate as "[are] the foreigners yet again [to defend them]?".Dahn 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment I guess can we assume from the blanking of the article here by a user who uses the initials S.C. that the author agrees to deletion? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:32, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: given that we have an explicitcitation from a generally reliable source claiming that he is a minor figure for whom exaggerated claims have been made in the past, and that there has been nothing like a reliable source cited to the opposite effect, can we close this and delete? If someone comes forward with belated evidence of notability, we can always undelete. - Jmabel | Talk 06:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep:the man is not *probably* "notable" for having been threatened with physical harm by the Romanian ambassador from Australia.Sorin Cerin is notable by works,like 'The origin of God',etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.114.26.107 (talk • contribs) 11 December 2006.Added after debate was closed

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.