Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sorin Cerin (Dec 2006)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Kimchi.sg 04:37, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorin Cerin

Sorin Cerin (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

This has been re-created and deleted several times, see especially Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sorin Cerin. The question is whether there is notability. There is no doubt that he has written books (although arguably none from major presses or with significant sales). He appears to be a pretty determined self-promoter, which makes notability a bit difficult to judge. And a number of supposedly different people, but with nearly identical unorthodox punctuation in their posts, have been arguing for a keep. It was apparently determined that this could not be speedied as a re-creation because it is somewhat different than before, so we need to discuss it again. - Jmabel | Talk 16:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Listed on Wikipedia:Romanian Wikipedians' notice board - Jmabel | Talk 17:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Listed on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philosophy - Jmabel | Talk 17:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong delete The reason to allow re-creation was the added succession of links at the bottom, but none of those proves notoriety, IMO - they are merely evidence of self-promotion. Aside from two minor articles in journals, all of those seem to be easily accessible for posting and/or highly sympathetic to Cerin's persistence (diaspora "deploring" that Cerin was "denied a place in Romanian culture"). There is no accessible and neutral criticism of his work, there is no comment on it from a professional source, there is frankly no material that would prove not to have been written or ordered by Cerin himself. With a little perseverence, anybody can have his or her name flashed around on the www. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for self-promotion, and wikipedia should not help someone achieve notoriety - it should base itself on acquired notoriety. Dahn 17:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• STRONG UNDELETEIs not True what Dahn said.Sorin Cerin was published in other many journals and was invited in many TV talk shows in Romania!Please see the journals!The articles is not only" two minor articles in journals"Envy?Alinaro 18:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
  • 100% of this user's edits relate to Sorin Cerin (except 1 edit to own user page). - Jmabel | Talk 23:07, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Undeleteper above,because is not true what Dahn said.Sorin Cerin was published by many newspapers and was invited in many TV shows.Romanian people know him.Keep this page.L.Marchis 18:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
  • 100% of this user's edits relate to Sorin Cerin (except edits to own user page and user talk page). - Jmabel | Talk 23:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• delete per nom. Browsing through the links to his works on the current version, and old versions, it seems as though many are the rambling gibberish of a schizophrenic. I know that sounds very harsh, but I say that based on the several schizophrenic friends of mine and the kind of material they produce when motivated. I do not think a judgment of notability can rely on the existence of published works in this case, and it just seems as though Mr. Cerin is not a notable author at this point in time. - Sam 18:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete and salt. This seems to be an ongoing promotion regime of someone. --Buridan 18:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete with a Nuke and possibly salt. None of the links provided are from independent reliable third-party, reputable, non-trivial published sources. Nothing here helps him pass WP:BIO. If he was published in these peer-reviewed journals...then please post information on them so we can verify it is true. If he was invited on TV shows, provide the name of the show, airdate, an network it was distributed on. As of now, no average adult without specific expert knowledge can really verify any of this, and that is a basis of WP:V (edit conflict with buridan. We posted at the same time :) )--Brian ^{(How am I doing?)} 18:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, not because a crackpot, but because still a very marginal one.--Ioannes Pragensis 21:11, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete unless he can be shown to have notability beyond his or someone else's persistence in attempting to publicize him. To paraphrase what I said before, evidence of notability would include:
  • Being taught in the curriculum of at least one major university?
  • A review of one of his books in some reputable publication, either a significant specialist publication (for example, one of the many listed at [1]) or a generalist publication (New York Review of Books, Times Literary Supplement, etc.) or even a review in a significant newspaper in almost any language.

Also, I am sure I am not the only one who has noticed that virtually all support for having an article on this person seems to be coming from people who create somewhat similar (or no) user pages and have the same oddly punctuated English. If these were not all the same person as 89.114.26.107 (talk • contribs), the IP that was briefly blocked for spamming user pages on this matter (and is now spamming again), I'd be very surprised. A usercheck might be in order. Voting more than once on the same AFD is pretty serious sockpuppet abuse.

I find this all a bit bizarre. I originally (in July) came into this with a pretty open mind that this might prove to be a notable person, but I increasingly find that unlikely, and the conduct of his "supporters" has been such as to make me increasingly skeptical of anything other than very solid evidence. - Jmabel | Talk 23:22, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Keep and completely rewrite according to what Sorin Cerin really is notable for. He is only marginally known for his writings and definitely not established as a philosopher. On the other hand he is quite famous for all the controversy that surrounds him -- see the external links at ro:Sorin Cerin. As Joe notes, all "these" editors (at en.wp as well as ro.wp and others) have the same peculiar punctuation -- no matter the language -- and only contribute to this particular subject. Someone claiming to be Sorin Cerin himself left this message on my talk page at ro.wp and appears to be the same person who makes all these edits under a plethora of usernames and IPs. — AdiJapan ☎ 03:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

If I understant it right, his "real notability" consists of 1) publishing a few lunatic books in obscure publishing houses without any significant echo in academic journals or in really important newspapers; 2) sockpupetting on Wikipedia. I do not think that this both is important enough to grant the minimum notability needed for an article here.--Ioannes Pragensis 08:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete Neutral for now. bogdan 12:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per bogdan. - Francis Tyers · 19:32, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nonverifiable notability. Mukadderat 01:59, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.