Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shark Island Challenge

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep Gnangarra 12:30, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shark Island Challenge

Shark Island Challenge (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Wholly unreferenced article about a competition with a AU$1,000 (insert US$6,000) top prize. Delete - NYC JD (objection, asked and answered!) 16:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. - NYC JD (objection, asked and answered!) 16:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
• keep - this is the most important Bodyboard competition in the world tour currently. You can't argue the notability of a competition by it's prize solely (but you seem to have misread the top prize: you only listed the prize when it wasn't an international event yet). You should have tried the article's talk page before AfD this article. Too harsh behaviour! Loudenvier 16:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Per the article, which is the only evidence a casual reader has about the event, the last competition was in 2003. If it's the most important competition, why hasn't there been one in the past four years. BTW, the top prize in 2003 was $6000 USD, hardly a large sum compared with the top prizes in other athletic events. SparklingWiggle 13:38, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    • The competition is still going on. I did not have the time to include the information about 2004, 2005, 2006 and upcoming 2007 event. I thought the community would take care of this. Loudenvier 13:44, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Prize alone does not justifies. Bodyboard is a sport with lack of sponsoring, so competitions do not amount to so high a prize as surfing yet. It's getting better. But this is the most notable event in the World Tour currently. Loudenvier 13:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Prize certianly does contribute quite a bit to an event's level of prestige. If the event had a prize on the order of $100k to $1 mil I don't think there would be as much question about its notability. We list collectible card tournaments with scant sources because their prizes can be up to a million dollars. SparklingWiggle 14:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

However - when the prize reaches $1 mil (AUD or otherwise) there is usually no shortage of information which easily meets the requirements of WP:ATT, unlike Shark Island Challenge website Garrie 02:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep as per Loudenvier the value of the prize is not a reason for notability or otherwise. The challenge appears to be able to be referenced externally, for example:
• globalsurfnews.com,
• surfersvillage.com,
• Billabong.com,
• Honolulu Advertiser as the event is in Australia that it is referred to in a US newspaper, ie non local newspaper, is somewhat unusual.

--Golden Wattle ^talk 23:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete Pending addition of sources to verify that this is in fact a notable event. —M (talk • contribs) 12:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  • I had not the time to add sources but there are plenty. You simply see that the article had no sources and opted to delete it before trying to find sources for yourself. Why do not make a google test? This competition has been filmed and there are many DVDs with footage from all the years it run. Loudenvier 13:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Anything from Sports Illustrated, Sporting News, or any of the many surfing magazines? SparklingWiggle 14:29, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Have you ever read about Bodyboard in Sports Illustrated? Perhaps you should have asked for some Bodyboarding magazines, instead of Surfing... Please, see the article again, I have provided a few sources for the stats and updated with 2004, 2005 and 2006 data. I don't think I need to provide anything from the sources above, which are mainly USA sources which tend to ignore the rest of the world, mainly a sport that is more common in Australia, Brazil, Portugal, etc. As I said to you, this is a sport which is currently suffering from lack of sponsoring. That's the same that is happening to Bodysurfing. It doesn't make it non-notable, but it can make it hard to prove its notability for readers which do not know the sport and aren't willing to research. Loudenvier 15:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per Malber. SparklingWiggle 13:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Note: I'm currently with a lack of time to work here. I'm so sure this is a notable competition but I will have to find more sources to back it up, so I would ask for you guys not to settle this AfD without giving me time to convince you :-) I have spent too much effort on this article, and I think it deserves more consideration. I myself own 4 commercial DVDs from the 2001 to 2004 competitions. I really don't know how could this not be notable. Keep the discussion, but give me more time. Regards Loudenvier 15:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. While it's clearly important in the bodyboarding community, there is nothing notable here for an encyclopedia. Citations are all self-referential except one article in a specialized publication. A scholarly search via LexisNexis reveals nothing notable. --Mus Musculus 16:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
  • The self-referential citations are for the stats which came from the primary source to avoid errors. I think I'm now confused as what is a notable sports event. It is the most important bodyboard event in the tour today along with the Pipe Master. I don't know if wikipedia is running out of disk space, but I think this article is encyclopedic due to its relevancy to an international sport. Loudenvier 17:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
    • The problem is - you can't ask readers to take your word for it. You have to provide reliable, independent, verifiable citations that show how important the event is. News stories covering the event and explaining its importance will be your starting place. --Mus Musculus 17:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
      • I have asked for time to make this research. That's exactly what I will do but I just don't want to came back here and see the article deleted. Regards Loudenvier 17:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
        • It may happen regardless. My advice would be to copy what you have right now, and you can repost it later when you have the citations. --Mus Musculus 17:35, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
• CommentWhat do you mean self referential? I just gave some external links above and they are not self-referential as I understand it. I will reformat for clarity. For a foreign newspaper to refer to the event seems to me to be quite unusual.--Golden Wattle ^talk 18:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I think by self-referential he is referring to Shark Island Challenge#References 1-10, from Shark Island Challenge website.Garrie 02:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you think references about wave conditions, prize, rankings, etc. should come not from the primary source? But I understand that these references alone does not prove the notability of the event. But User:Golden Wattle gave some external links (one from Billabong, a surfing giant company), and they were all dismissed. I think this article should be tagged for expansion rather than deletion. I had it tagged as a stub in the past because it lacked completeness, but another user removed the tag. Loudenvier 20:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete, no serious sources that establish the notability of this event. The only real sources actually included seem to be the event organisers, which are hardly a reliable source in this context. Lankiveil 12:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

Comment: People do not want to take the notability of this event in bodyboarding from the IBA site International Bodyboarding Association. It is the same as denying that an statement of an authoritative association like FIFA is not reliable. IBA is the authoritative association of bodyboarding in the world, it has the final word on rules and which competitions count to the tour. For example, the Shark Island Challenge here in question is the one with the biggest point award, which means that it's most important event in the World Tour which is the only tour for international bodyboarding akin to the Association of Surfing Professionals tour for surfing. By the way the articles about the World Tour and IBA are still lacking information, they are all stubs right now. Regards Loudenvier 20:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

A few other links that could fare better in proving notability:

• Bodyboard CSIC - this is from Rede Globo biggest brazillian open television channel
• main BB brazillian site
• Shark Island Challenge
• Shark Island
• Another Billabong Reference - from Billabong

Loudenvier 21:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.