Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sealand national football team

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Redirect. Arguable silliness of Sealand aside, this is an otherwise non-notable organization. I'm redirecting it to Sealand; if at some point in the future the team does become notable, we can restore it. EVula // talk // ☯ // 02:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sealand national football team

Sealand national football team (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

This is (apparently) the Danish team "Vestbjerg Vintage Idrætsforening" which also doubles as the "national team" of a fictional nation. It's not notable in either capacity, as far as I can tell. There's no substantial coverage about them in reliable independent sources, and judging from the article there seems to be little verifiable information about them at all. They also don't seem to play in any professional league. Sandstein 22:39, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. ChrisTheDude 00:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, probably Speedy A7. FWIW, Sealand is indeed a recognized micronation, but I am not convinced that this is enough to make it notable. Novel, yes, but I question notable. --Dennisthe2 00:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. While a merge to an article about Vestbjerg Vintage Idrætsforening is a possible alternative, as no article about it exists and it does not seem to be a notable club in its own right, a full-on delete is the right option. Qwghlm 00:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment, being an associate member of the NF-Board (see here) is, in my eyes, some sort of claim of notability, but I am concerned about the lack of third party sources. – Elisson • T • C • 01:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
• Merge into Sealand. The nation is certainly notable in and of itself, and so may the club team, but they are not notable for being Sealand's national team If the club team gets its own article then redirect this to the team's article. skrshawk ( Talk | Contribs ) 04:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

• Comment I just noticed that all this info is already in the Sealand article anyway.... ChrisTheDude 09:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Watchsmart 09:45, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Apparently it got merged, or I missed it. No reason to keep it, in any case. skrshawk ( Talk | Contribs ) 18:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, because
  • there are 30 useful links to this article Sealand national football team
  • like Elisson already pointed out, it is since 25.03.2006 an associate member of the NF-Board
  • the Sealand national football team achieved a draw against the Åland Islands national football team 15/05/2004 in Åland, see www.fedefutbol.net --Rheinländer 18:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per Ellison and Rheinlander. м info 22:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Of those nominated, this seems to be the only one that has played matches is therefore verifiable and notable.Patken4 22:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
• I have added evidence of the match played against the well known side Åland Islands national football team (participant and host of the Island Games) on 15 May 2004 --Rheinländer 23:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Describing the Åland Islands national football team as "well known" seems a tad generous.... ChrisTheDude 08:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep — Rheinländer is right. The delete voters once again seem to argue that it's "not notable" just because they haven't heard of it, or just because it doesn't come up on Google. — Timwi 15:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

No, they argue that it's not notable because it does not meet the notability guideline, which states in pertinent part:

A topic is notable if it has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works from sources that are reliable and independent of the subject itself and each other. All topics must meet a minimum threshold of notability in order for an article on that topic to be included in Wikipedia. This requirement ensures that there exists enough source material to write a verifiable, encyclopedic article about the topic.

Which in the case of this team is very much not the case. Not every team that has ever kicked a ball is notable, only those that have their matches covered by substantial, reliable, independent sources. Sandstein 17:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The RSSSF link does have information about the match against the Aland Islands. Since no one has nominated the Aland Islands team for deletion, I can only assume we agree that they are notable. In addition, other articles talk about Sealand having a national football team. Plus, there's some evidence of a game against Northern Cyprus from earlier this year [1]. Patken4 22:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The issue is not whether they exist. The issue is whether they have enough substantial third party coverage to be notable. A passing mention in a newspaper article is not substantial coverage, and neither are mentions that they might have played the odd match against this or that other team. There's just not enough material here for a verifiable article. We don't even know the players' names!Sandstein 06:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

If that's your criteria, then you might as well nominate every NF-Board team because none have substantial third-party coverage, even in the areas they represent, with the possible exceptions of Sapmi and Northern Cyprus. What difference does it make if we know who the players are? Do we know who the players representing South Moluccas or Kiribati are? My criteria is that they have been officially recognized to represent Sealand and they have played at least one match against international competition. Patken4 12:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd support this if this team would be representing a real country instead of a figment of the imagination - but in that case, we would have substantial third party coverage. Which is not my criterion for notability, but our community's, as per the consensually adopted guideline WP:N. The other articles are not now up for deletion, but may be in the future. Sandstein 12:46, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete Sealand itself has borderline notability. The fact that article still exists is a testament to the fact that if it is amusing, Wikipedia will find a place for it. The "fictional" national team of a "fictional" country is best served in a "fictional" article that exist in a "fictional" encyclopedia--not Wikipedia. 205.157.110.11 08:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
• Redirect to Sealand. Redirects are cheap. delldot | talk 20:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. People seems to associate the notability of Sealand (the nation) to this article and ignore the fact that it is officially recognised as a team on NF-board. SYSS Mouse 14:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - the NF-board has no official capacity either. How on earth are 11 people ever going to meet origin or residence critera for this "country"? - fchd 18:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
• Merge with other less-notable non-FIFA teams into an umbrella article covering them all? Superlinus
• Keep. We have articles for many other small non-FIFA teams and, as mentioned before, the team is part of the NF-board and officially recognised by them.--GingerM 23:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
  • And what right does an organisation like the NF-board have to "officially" recognise anything? This article relates to a minor Danish team who have hitched themselves to a campaign to recognise soverignty over a North Sea drilling platform. There's no "nation" to represent. I'd say keep this article if and only if they ever play a home match! - fchd 06:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Per SYSS Mouse. Bababoum 14:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
• Redirect it to Sealand. It's mostly a joke - there is no third party sources and even name of Czech Republic is spelled badly on official page. --Have a nice day. Running 01:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. The team is part of the NF-board, amongst Chechnya, Greenland, Zanzibar, Easter Island and others. --Czj 03:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - A 'fictional nation'? It's not very serious, but it does exist. So does the football team. --Joffeloff 16:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - this is a nonsense. Sealand, despite the claims of its owner, is not a nation and cannot therefore have a national team especially a Danish one! BlueValour 04:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I concur - whilst other non-FIFA teams presumably select players who are able to meet nationality criteria, this one is more akin to Danny Wallace suddenly announcing that henceforth Forres Mechanics will double up as the national team of The Kingdom of Lovely...... ChrisTheDude 07:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
    • There is no comparison: Sealand is de facto accepted by jurisdiction of the UK. The team selected by Sealand National Football Association accepted the selection. They played a match against the team officially representing Aaland Islands for example at the Island Games in football (soccer), see:Football at the Island Games. --Rheinländer 11:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
      • There is every comparison. Sealand is definitely not accepted by the UK as a separate entity. This is not a national football team in any sense of the phrase. It is a non-notable Danish amateur team who have hitched themselves to a non-notable North Sea platform for the purposes of making a story. At least the Aland Islands have a permanent population and the people representing the team could have been born there or been resident for enough time to make themselves eligible. - fchd 19:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.