Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SCG International Risk

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep Deville (Talk) 14:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SCG International Risk

Delete Fails WP:CORP. 1190 Ghits; only this one is actually a third party article about the company, and it is not exclusively about SCG. Other hits are either press releases, directory listings, or the company's own website. Mike Christie (talk) 12:09, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment; I've been through most of the citations from Jamie (thanks for the detailed list). Most do not qualify, but a couple do; I think the company is marginally notable and am changing to comment. I will look further at the WP:CORP policy and think about revising my vote again. I would vote Keep if some of the "opaque" sources are shown to be direct non-trivial coverage of SCG, as opposed to Jamie Smith. Mike Christie (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Christie - thanks for doing a great job editing. But since you've looked at the contribution I've continued to add to it and feel that it actually does comply with WP:CORP which states that:

The criteria for companies and corporations requires that the company or corporation has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the company itself. This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, television documentaries, and published reports by consumer watchdog organizations.

As you can see there are considerably more than just the third party article you noted. I just hadn't the time to finish adding everything - the contribution is only a few hours old. These are comparable to other companies that have been used for their justification. Here's a list:

• [1] Licensed to Kill, Hired Guns in the War on Terror by Robert Young Pelton (Crown, September 2006)

This is a book about the SCG's area; can't tell from Amazon what level of coverage there is. Jamie, could you give some information about the contents? Does it treat SCG specifically as a subject, e.g. by devoting a chapter to SCG? Or does it mention them as a background name, by saying for example that someone mentioned in the book works for them? If this book directly treats SCG as a primary subject, it would be strong evidence for notability. Mike Christie (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• National Public Radio broadcast of Marketplace. Subject: Recruiting soldiers for private security work worldwide describing SCG's recruiting and hiring practices in Iraq and Afghanistan by Steve Henn (April 13, 2004)

This qualifies -- it's an article about the business of security, and it starts with a few seconds of interview with Jamie Smith, who had a bullet in his arm. SCG are not the direct topic of the article, but they are a lead example given as one of the businesses in this area. Mike Christie (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• Good Housekeeping "Rescuing Lilly" article about SCG's role in assisting with recovery of kidnapped children. Author Amy Engeler (Date: May 1, 2004)

As with the Amazon story the content isn't clear; can you clarify? Mike Christie (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• The Virginia-Pilot Newspaper. Beach man wounded in mideast. A Virginia Beach security contractor was shot and wounded near the Afghanistan-Pakistan border this week. Jamie Smith, the owner of SCG International Risk, was hit in the arm Monday night...(April 10, 2004 in FRONT section, page A13 by Joanne Kimberlin)

I don't see how this makes SCG itself notable; as with a couple of other links here, the implied notability is more Jamie's than SCG's. Mike Christie (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• CNN Reporter Kevin Sites interview SCG CEO Jamie Smith. (Subject: Kidnapping of Robert Pelton, Meg Smaker and Mark Wedeven) (Date: 28Jan03)

This is hard to assess without knowing more about the interview. It sounds as though the topic was the kidnapping, and Jamie is being interviewed in his capacity as an expert. I don't think this contributes much to SCG's own notability. The intention of the notability clause in WP:CORP is that the writer took the business in question as their subject. That doesn't sound like it's the case here. Mike Christie (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• Chicago Tribune article Published April 2, 2004 describing the company's role in the Iraq War and in providing contractors in support

This qualifies; there are three paragraphs in this news story where Jamie Smith is interviewed specifically discussing security firms in Iraq and describing SCG's own deployment. It's not in-depth coverage, but it's there. Mike Christie (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• The Left Coaster article entitled The New And Improved Hessian published April 2, 2005 describing the company's role in the Iraq War

Same quotes as the Trib piece above; given that the Tribune is the more important outlet, I don't think this adds anything. Mike Christie (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• National Public Radio interview with company CEO regarding company's training of Air Marshals in wake of Miami shooting. Aired December 5, 2005

This is an interview with Jamie Smith, the CEO of SCG (and also apparently the creator of this Wikipedia article). He was interviewed in his capacity as an erstwhile instructor of air marshals; the interviewer ends by saying that he is now CEO of SCG International, but there is no other mention of the company. This really isn't coverage of SCG itself. Mike Christie (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• Article describing the company's role in the Iraq and Afghanistan war

This is a listing in an appendix that lists many companies; this is essentially a directory listing and doesn't qualify as coverage.

• Robert Young Pelton's World: Traveling Right about SCG's training courses for those traveling to war zones

This is just a one-line mention of one of SCG's course in Pelton's article; this is very marginal to qualify as coverage of the company.Mike Christie (talk) 22:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• ABC News, Air Marshal Followed Training, SCG International Risk's CEO discussing training and actions of Air Marshals
• SWAT Magazine article October 2003 edition. (Subject: SCG High Threat Vehicle Dismount training).
• People Magazine article on SCG International Risk CEO Jamie Smith and private security firms in Afghanistan and Iraq. Date: April 2004
• Nuts Magazine (UK) SWAT training discussed in interview with SCG Training Division Instructor Todd Smith. (Date: March Issue 2004)
• FHM Magazine (UK) article on SCG training SWAT teams. Author goes through SWAT training in USA w/SCG Training Division Instructors Todd Smith and Randy Lewis. (Date: March Issue 2004)
• Company press release describing deployment to US Gulf Coast to provide support in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
• SCG International Risk website

Jamie@scgonline.net 13:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete fails WP:V M1ss1ontomars2k4 ^{(T | C | @)} 20:46, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

  Okay, how the heck does this violate WP:V? O_o I think I meant WP:VAIN. Anyway, maybe weak keep is better, per Captainktainer. --M1ss1ontomars2k4 ^{(T | C | @)} 03:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

• Keep, much against my better judgment. That's an extensive list of sources right there. I'd much rather all of these companies would disappear off the face of the earth... but the fact of the matter remains that this company easily meets and exceeds the requirements of WP:V and WP:CORP. Captainktainer * Talk 23:42, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
• Agree - keep. Meets requirements of WP:V and WP:CORP.Ghostscg 00:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
• keep -- Geo Swan 07:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.