Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ryan Sugden (second nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 11:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ryan Sugden

A DRV consensus overturned this article's previous deletion through AfD. Please see DRV for evidence that the subject is a professional athlete. This is a procedural relisting, so I abstain. Xoloz 15:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - After reviewing the previous AfD discussion as well as the DRV, I stand by the original decision. Although Sugden might qualify for notability by the letter of the law as a pro athlete, I personally believe the spirit of the law does not protect every individual that ever started in a pro sporting event. For example, during the baseball strike of the mid 90s, I saw a bunch of unknowns fill roster spots on the Baltimore Orioles and start for a few months. However, I can only find a couple of them (those that remained in the Majors after the strike) on Wikipedia. If anybody can convince me that Sugden is in any way different from the multitude of athletes with limited pro experience I'll change my vote. If not, let's put this one to rest for good. -bobby 15:57, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - please add your views at Footballers notability criteria where even a modest tightening of the criteria is being resisted. BlueValour 17:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Played for minor clubs. - crz crztalk 16:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - and for Oldham Athletic F.C. a sufficiently major club. BlueValour 16:40, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - He has played 20 games, and scored a goal, in the Football League and therefore clearly meets WP:BIO. BlueValour 16:38, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - For better or worse, he satisfies the current criterion in WP:BIO as a (former) professional sportsman, and so under the rules the article should be kept. Qwghlm 16:52, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. BlueValour 16:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep - Has played and scored in the Football League, which is a notable League in English football. You can't compare it with a baseball franchise. --Kingjamie 17:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per reasoning at previous discussions. Catchpole 17:18, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep - has played and scored in the Football League and has only played for professional clubs in the Football Conference (three of which were recent former Football League Clubs which have remained fully professional in the Conference (i.e. sorry to disagree with you Qwghlm for a change, but I think he is a current professional footballer) - and Chester City are now a Football League Club again). WikiGull 17:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Keep He was a pro in the football league, he is still a pro in the conference, thus clearly meets WP:Bio. Englishrose 18:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Delete Yes, he has played in a professional league (4 league starts +16 substitute appearances), but I have yet to find any source giving any detail of his professional career beyond the bare statistics of how many times he played, i.e. non-trivial coverage. Thus the article does not meet WP:V. Oldelpaso 18:57, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I hope this reference from the BBC sates your desire for non-trivial coverage. Catchpole 19:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Its on the edge. This is an odd case in that his time in the Conference is better documented than the part which confers notability, that at the higher level. The article covers his transfer between two Conference sides, but provides no information about his time in the fully professional leagues. I think the thing which bothers me is the high likelihood that this article will never progress beyond its current substub + infobox state due to lack of information. Normally in a situation like this I suggest a merge, but there's nowhere to merge to. Changed to weak delete. Oldelpaso 23:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. He meets current standards as noted by Qwghlm. -- Bpmullins 19:08, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Appears to meet notability criteria. -- Necrothesp 19:13, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete with caveat that I closed the initial AfD, per my reasoning at the previous AfD. -- Samir धर्म 00:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per Bpmullins and Qwghlm ChrisTheDude 08:36, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep I'm satisfied by his professional credentials Superlinus 12:11, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Notable soccer player on professional team. --Oakshade 00:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep: I don't understand why he has even been proposed for deletion - he has made numerous appearances in a professional league for a fully professional club. -- MLD · T · C · @:  15:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.