Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rasor Elementary School

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 00:34, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rasor Elementary School

Delete. This is a non-notable elementary school in Plano, Texas. I am from Plano and can think of no reason why Rasor, or most any elementary school anywhere, is notable. The article has only been edited by two users: the creator, who just registered recently and only has 2 page edits, and an anon IP that wikified some things. -Scm83x 00:23, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Merge. Merge the small info still in this article to John Henry Rasor, per points put forth by Rebelguys2 (talk • contribs). -Scm83x 09:55, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep If edited it too and I'm from Georgia and I have loads of edits. It's a nice article. Golfcam 01:30, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - Number one, there's a category for elementary schools in Texas, and number two, I wish I had this newfangled wikipedia thing when I was a little girl, I would have written about my school. Endomion 02:02, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Most of the schools in the elementary schools in Texas are K-12 schools (and are in all 3 categories elem middle and high), had a bombing/suicide occur there, or have multiple famous graduates. Please look at how much Rasor sticks out in this list at Category:Elementary schools in Texas. I see absolutely no reason why Rasor is notable. None. -Scm83x 03:31, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep and cleanup. I removed some non-relevant material. --Quarl 02:03, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Comment. Please don't list schools, as there is a sufficent body of voters on AfD that will vote to keep any school article. See WP:SCH. It's not notable, but there's been enough debate on AfD on the subject already.--Prosfilaes 02:04, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as per precedent already set for all schools. Jcuk 02:10, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Can you cite the precedent? Where is it said that any article with school in it can be kept automatically? -Scm83x 03:31, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Precedent implies practice not a rule. There will probably never be a policy which says that because some users won't stand for its introduction, but school articles don't get deleted anyway. Bhoeble 04:48, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. This is a nice article. It just needs to be expanded. -- JJay 02:27, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep for reasons already given. Bhoeble 04:48, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Merge. Strong Delete. Even though I'm a 1997 Rasor Elementary School alumnus myself, I absolutely cannot see any use in keeping this article. As for the content, there is very little information regarding the school itself. Most of the information is about John Henry Rasor, his family, his properties, and related developments in the history of Plano, Texas. Sure, it's a nice backstory, but it has nothing to do with the school. We don't stick all our information about Todd Beamer under an article about the post office that was named after him. We don't put Martin Luther King's information under an article about one of the many streets named in his honor. If this information is relevant, it should stand on its own in another article. With regards to relevancy to Rasor Elementary, all but the first three and last sentences should be removed.

Those voting "Keep" will then argue that the content can always be changed, but that we shouldn't delete the article itself. I've seen the massive debates about school notability, and I normally side with those who want to keep as many articles as possible. I usually hesitate to delete most school-related articles. However, it's important to note the structure of Plano's school system - there are 45, unindividual, non-notable primary schools, with more being built all the time. The secondary schools are big enough to justify an article, but this article simply does not - think 45 articles with no notable information except their location and founding date, unless you want to include the fact that, say, Mendenhall collected the most aluminum cans in such and such year.

Others want to go on "precedents" or "implied practices." The implied practice on Wikipedia is not to have a separate article on individual schools in a massive, bureaucratic school district. If you search for directories of schools on Wikipedia, the best listing you'll get is one of New York's high schools. Would we possibly want a listing of each of the hundreds and hundreds of New York City's primary schools? No! Primary schools are largely nonnotable when you single out one in a massive web of dozens or hundreds of completely standardized buildings.

Finally, when we look at the category it's listed in (primary schools in Texas), there's nothing that allows Rasor to stand out on its own. There's been no bombings or shooting, it doesn't cater towards a special group of kids, there's been no long history of tradition - it's not even unique within its own school district!

I believe that most of the school-related articles on Wikipedia should be kept. But there is a limit to me leaving a "Keep" comment when something is this nonnotable and the content is this offtopic. -Rebelguys2 06:29, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep I agree with all of the positive feedback above. Plano is one of the few places I know where all of the schools are named for local heroes/pioneers/etc. so it would be nice to know about the namesakes. Maybe people will write about the others as well? If a student at say George Washington High School or Martin Luther King Middle School (i.e. those who are at the New York City schools mentioned above, most of which are simply named after numbers anyway) can look up more info about his school's namesake, why can't a student at Rasor? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.255.210.234 (talk • contribs).
• Keep I just looked at some of the other local school district's articles and there are several schools that have their own entries without even saying who the namesake is - simply stating BLANK is a high school in the BLANK Independent School District. The private school articles (check out Greenhill's) also don't add much. The Rasor article does say something. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.255.210.234 (talk • contribs).

I went ahead and struck out one of the two preceding "Keep"s, as they came from the same person one after another. Regardless, they were unsigned by an anonymous IP user, so the votes technically shouldn't count. I'll go ahead and respond, regardless:

Your argument fits well with my vote for deletion. You're saying that a student should be able to look up the namesake of their school, which is precisely why I forked the information to John Henry Rasor as you were writing your comment. The article about the person should stay at the person's own article - not one about a school. Why don't we create an article about "Rasor Boulevard," then, and stick his biography in there? We don't because it's irrelevant and in the wrong place.

Finally, you argue with other examples of school-related articles. Greenhill school, for example, is notable because it is "the region’s first co-educational independent school." It isn't much of an article, especially with lines like this, "Philip Kafka - Graduated in 2005 with a major in women studies and a minor in throwing parties.," but it has at least a very minor degree of notability. -Rebelguys2 06:52, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Merge with John Henry Rasor, per arguments set forth by Rebelguys2. KillerChihuahua^?!? 08:24, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: Rasor Elementary School at this point is almost a stub as material relevant to John Henry Rasor is already at that article. Merging is tantamount to deletion. Keep and don't merge. --Quarl 09:47, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Merge per arguments above. Unmerge later if, by some tragedy, this school becomes subject to major media news coverage. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 09:25, Dec. 25, 2005
• Keep and Merge to district if/when article created per WP:SCH. --Rob 13:16, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Proposing to merge an article about a school into an article about a person shows a complete disregard for the category system. CalJW 15:39, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment. I don't see how merging this article shows a complete disregard for the category system. When this article was first put up for deletion, it mostly contained information about the person, John Henry Rasor, rather than the school. After the massive debates at WP:SCH, many contributors now automatically vote keep to school articles. I am often an inclusionist when it comes to school articles myself.

As a result, it simply comes down to the debate about whether we should delete schools - NOT a debate on how categories work in Wikipedia. WP:SCH argues for the merging of this article. I've followed many of the recent talk pages in WP:SCH and Schoolwatch, and they often agree on keeping high school articles as they are. However, the custom is to merge schools like this into the district page. You will see that many of the often knee-jerk "Keep" voters here have agreed that this article should be merged with the district article - this is all in accordance with WP:SCH and all of the customs we have seen on Wikipedia thus far. -Rebelguys2 20:39, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Rebelguys2, you may disagree with the votes of others, but you needn't insult them. Please consider being WP:CIVIL. --Rob 21:09, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

I apologize for my comments, and have struck out the offending line. In the heat of this debate, I let the unintentional holier-than-thou attitude in the back of my head through. ;) Again, I apologize, as I am rarely one to intend to insult people. I hope we can continue this debate civilly. -Rebelguys2 21:26, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

• Merge with a page about the district. Raleigh, NC is a good example of how to handle this. JDoorjam 16:31, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with Plano, Texas under the Education section. Redirect existing page to that section.--Aleron235 16:51, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. If someone wants to merge to one of the above suggestions, I'm cool with that too. JYolkowski // talk 18:48, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
• Strong merge into John Henry Rasor and smerge into Plano, Texas. I don't see anything that makes it particularly notable among the huge collection of primary schools out there. --Idont Havaname
• Keep, per precedent. Perfectly reasonable school article. I wish they all were this good. -Colin Kimbrell 17:56, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
• keep please this article is good erasing it makes no sense Yuckfoo 10:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep for reasons established by Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep. Silensor 20:31, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. All schools are notable enough for a truly great encyclopaedia. —RaD Man (talk) 23:35, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and expand, as per Wikipedia:Schools/Arguments. I added it to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Schools#Suggestions_for_next_week so it should hopefully be expanded. — MATHWIZ2020 ^{TALK | CONTRIBS} 01:27, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with district or city per WP:SCH. Keep if expanded.Gateman1997 23:47, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.