Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Quranic reasons for terrorism

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 02:11, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quranic reasons for terrorism

Quranic reasons for terrorism (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Most of this content is already in the Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, about "an Iranian-born American citizen who confessed to intentionally hitting people with a car ...avenge the deaths of Muslims worldwide." The creation of a stand-alone article and linking that article to various other Islam-related articles createst undue weight on the motivations/citations of a single individual. In other words, I don't see how this is any different than creating an article titled "Biblical reasons for terror" with Eric Robert Rudolph cited as the principal source; i.e., it's inherently POV. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 21:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment-I suspect that this article was created to give a more broad look at the reasons Islamic terrorists often give for their, well, terrorism :/. Since it was just created, I suspect Mohammed's comments have been used as a starting point for further expansion. However, I have to admit, i'd rather hear the creator of the page's side first so that my suspicions don't just prove baseless :/. Homestarmy 21:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete vehicle to post a list of verses that has been repeatedly inserted on various pages Tom Harrison ^Talk 21:56, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: that an article is poorly cited or POV is usually not an argument for deletion, but rather an argument for expansion. If this article can be expanded and cited to establish notability, then it should be. If it cannot be so cited, then that should have been the argument for deletion, along with some indication of why it can never be better cited. — coelacan talk — 21:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Though my nomination may not have been clear on that point, the article itself is; it's a list of verses cited by a convicted killer as justifications for his actions. As Tom Harrison noted, this exact list has been posted to other Islam-related articles before. This appears to be an attempt to circumvent the lists repeated removal from those articles. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 22:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

It does appear to be just that. And the article name is inherently POV. — coelacan talk — 01:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

• No brainer delete. Is this the banned User:DAde rearing his disruptive (putting it politely) head? (→Netscott) 22:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• strong and speedy delete or rename to stuff cited by lone lunatic and then delete. --Striver 22:40, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy keep My reason for its creation was that it allows people to have Quran-based arguments on the justifications of terrorism.--Patchouli 23:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - I don't think the Quran needs help in that regard, but it almost encourages terrorism. Might I suggest a different name? --Dennisthe2 01:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Subjective as Hell. 1) Title assumes that that Quran gives justifications for Terrorism. I suspect a lot of people would disagree. 2) It assumes that the acts of violence implied are 'terrorism' and the perpetrators 'terrorists'. I suspect those parties would see it differently. 'Quranic reasons for resisting Western Oppression' anyone?--Sandy Scott 23:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and above. ITAQALLAH 23:53, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Islam-related deletions. -- ITAQALLAH 23:53, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and Rename. Merge useful, cited, content into article entitled Scriptural justifications for terrorism (Islam) which would be a subset of religious terrorism. Obviously there would be versions for the other religions as well. Despite the offense mainstream adherents of a given religion take at "Satan quoting scripture" so to speak, the rationale extremists give for their extremism is interesting and a valid subject. <<-armon->> 00:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree to a re-naming. There should be some article explaining the rationale of militant Islamists.--Patchouli 00:23, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

OK but but just to clarify. A long list of quotes from one guy lacking context isn't what I have in mind as a proper article. I think it needs a lot of work, but as it was afd'ed 9 mins after creation, I'd be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt. <<-armon->> 00:57, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

• Rename. Pick a name. --Dennisthe2 01:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per WP:OR. Qur'an is a primary source. This topic has already been discussed, for example in Jihad article. We don't need another fork view of the same topic based on Original research. TruthSpreader^Talk 04:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

The word "terrorism" in it self is controversial enough to not be used in a article title of this context. --Striver 12:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete: A very POV oriented title. No religion teaches terrorism. --- ALM 14:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

The word terror itself appears in Quran numerous times.--Patchouli 23:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

The word terror appears in other texts as well. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 00:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Jamie has a point, just because you can find a place where the word terror is mentioned, doesn't mean its the same sort of thing as modern terrorism. Homestarmy 00:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The Quran directs and orders YOU (human beings) to use terror against the enemies of God[1]. This is why Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman who interpreted the Quran literally is in jail for.--Patchouli 03:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete: Article name itself is a POV. --Soft coder^Talk 05:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and rename per Armon. Closing authority should discount all votes citing "bias" or "subjectivity" as reason for voting delete, as these are not valid reasons for deletion under WP policy. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 04:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:OR and WP:SOAPBOX are valid reasons for deletion, the latter applying in this case because the subject is inherently POV (as I said before, no different than creating an article about Biblical reasons for terrorism). OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 16:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Delete: This is original research. Quranic verses against blunt terrorism are too many to mention here. Religions do not allow terrorism, and simply terrorism is a recent phenomena and its definition remains evolving and vague. Quran was written 14 hundred years ago and hence trying to associate its text with modern, evolving terminologies, is pure original research and is not acceptable. Almaqdisi ^{talk to me} 09:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and Rename: Suggested new title: Quran and Terrorism. Also expand this article. It should not just be a collection of verses. --Matt57 22:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and rename per OhNoitsJamie. frummer 03:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment I didn't suggest keeping or renaming it. The "reasons" listed in the article belong in the Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, as he is the one who made the arguments. The current "Reasons" article states, "There are many examples that incite Muslims to resort to violence," then goes on to list the verses from Taheri-azar's letter. There's no evidence or citations that these "reasons" are broadly accepted or posited by anyone else other than Taheri-azar. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 03:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment, per what you said in the nom, there is indeed a need for Biblical reasons for terror though perhaps you can find a better title. Therefore, please keep this one so long it improves, and also create the biblical one. frummer 06:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per Ohnoitjamie. We could have a NPOV article on this subject (presumably with a different NPOV title) but this isn't it and there's no indication that any of this is salvagable. JoshuaZ 04:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The content is fine but the title may not be perfect. Any suggestions for a better NPOV title? It is the Title of this article which is causing the problem. --Matt57 15:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong delete - none of the quranic verses cited (or in fact any) advocate terrorism - " violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians by groups or persons for political, nationalist, or religious goals". Wikipidian 22:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Quran advocates terrorism explicitly. To look at some of the verses and say otherwise is like saying 2+2=5. Of course, some Muslim clerics will deny it because their jobs is on the line and for self-interest considerations.--Patchouli 02:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves." (Numbers 31:17-18). See how easy it is to pick and choose verses to justify killing innocent civilians, though if you examine the evidence as a whole I'm sure you will find verses which show overall that Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not advocate terrorism. Inshallah (God-willing) if this remains I will create a response article - Quranic reasons against terrorism. Wikipidian 19:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

An article on Quranic reasons against terrorism would be a great idea. — coelacan talk — 19:34, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong delete The word Terrorism is inherently pejorative and not permissible in the title of an article except when the word itself is being discussed. Please see Wikipedia's policy on words to avoid. --Ķĩřβȳ♥ŤįɱéØ 23:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
• Strong delete. There is a page on Jihad in wikipedia and all criticisms on Jihad can be included there. The big part of article is about Mohammed Reza Taheriazar, a person with mental conditions. There is no consensus that he is a terrorist. Big part of materials are just copy from the article on this person. This article is just a POV pushing by User:Patchouli. Gorbeh 13:18, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Also there is an article on Islamic terrorism. User:Patchouli's IP needs to be blocked as the user is constantly vandalizing articles and pushing for POV. Gorbeh 13:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong delete Per above. Shams2006 01:49, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.