Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pakistani civilization

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. POV fork. Aksi_great (talk) 11:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pakistani civilization

Hi all - I request opinions on this article, which I strongly suspect is largely a cut-paste job of portions of Indian mathematics. A clear effort is being made to separate ancient history between the present territorial boundaries of Pakistan and India and this violating WP:POINT, WP:NPOV and WP:OR - [1]. I believe that this article violates the following policies: WP:ATT, WP:N, WP:V, WP:NEO, WP:SYN, WP:RS, ATT/RS. While the development of content in relation to the history of Pakistan is undoubtedly important, this article is by-and-large original research. Rama's arrow 22:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

• Delete The article is a copy and paste job from Indian mathematics. The history of the modern nation of Pakistan overlaps with that of India, Afghanistan and Iran. The article speaks of an seperate "civilization" which has yet not happened. _{Freedom skies| talk}  23:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Keep It's part of Pakistani history.It's not original research as the sources are stated below on the external links section of the article.Mohenjo Daro is indeed in Pakistan.It requires some clean up as many articles do,but deleting it is ridiculous.It's not harming anybody.Like the Indian users,we are committed preserving our history as well.--Nadirali نادرالی

• Oppose Delete The "copy and paste job" was simply used to get an outline of the article, most of the text was deleted shortly after. The articles shouldnt be deleted, but renamed to "Pakistani Mathematics", just like there is an "Indian Mathematics". Nobody is questioning the contents of Indian Mathematics, but a thread showing Pakistani contributions to South Asia Mathematics is needed. --Unre4Lﺍﹸﻧﺮﮮﺍﻝ ^UT 23:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

• Delete - Its is totally WP:OR to retroactively describe contributions made to society millenia ago as "Pakistani civilization". Look at the hits once wikipedia is not there (low hundreds). Note that there is no page on Indian civilization either, but pages on Indus Valley Civilization, Mehrgarh, Gupta empire, etc.Bakaman 23:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
• Note - Retroactively claiming random historical people to be Pakistani, and talking of a neologism (not that there arent Pakistani mathematicians, just that Panini was not Pakistani, neither were people from, the Kerala school, etc.). Pakistani mathematics nets 122 ghits.Bakaman 23:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Note that most of the hits are about "Pakistani Mathematics Question Paper", "Pakistani Mathematics curriculum", etc. deeptrivia (talk) 18:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Fairly obvious POV fork. --Dhartung | Talk 00:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. C56C 04:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete as POV fork. It doesn't make sense to partition the historical mathematics of the region along modern political lines. Indian mathematics may be an unfortunate title, from the Pakistani perspective, but that's where this material belongs. —David Eppstein 08:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete this POV-fork. — Nearly Headless Nick ^{C} 09:33, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
• Delete POV fork. Maybe Indian mathematics needs a better title, but creating a parallel page is the wrong way to handle this issue. Gandalf61 15:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Indian mathematics does not need a better title. A (very) few people could have been confused had the title been "Mathematics of India", but "Indian mathematics" does not cause any confusion, and is the only term used to refer to this field. This was the reason "Cuisine of India" was changed to Indian cuisine (to explicitly generalize to the entire Indian subcontinent), although, it still didn't prevent people from creating Pakistani cuisine, which doesn't quite explain why most Pakistanis in Europe or America would call their restaurants "Indian restaurants" serving "Indian cuisine." Wikipedia should be the last place where academically unrecognized terms like these should be invented. deeptrivia (talk) 18:59, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

As the title Indian mathematics seems to cause offense to some and confusion to others, I simply meant that there would be benefits to giving the article a more precise title, such as Ancient Indian mathematics (a term used in MacTutor) or History of mathematics in the Indian sub-continent (for which we have a precedent here). Gandalf61 11:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy delete — We shouldn't require a vote on this. deeptrivia (talk) 18:46, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
• Strong delete—POV fork. Projecting modern nationalism thousands of years into the past is not a good idea. Spacepotato 03:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 04:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.