Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/New Geneva Theological Seminary

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Hopefully the WP:V concerns can be addressed. Deizio talk 19:29, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Geneva Theological Seminary

Unnotable unaccredited school. I get 544 yahoo hits including wikipedia and mirrors. Could be a great school or could be a diploma mill, either way it lacks WP:V and notability. Arbusto 00:20, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete per nom. Article does not explain its importance.--Andrew c 01:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Vectro 02:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete I agree with Arbusto. P.B. Pilhet / Talk 03:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. MER-C 04:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Emeraude 10:49, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep as a college, it is notable. Even unaccredited diploma mills can be notableEdison 16:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Is its a school or a diploma mill? WP:V is a serious issue. Arbusto 05:27, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
If you read the footnote to that section is mentions accreditation as well as WP:V. This article lacks both. Arbusto 03:45, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
If you take 'the government's' the word as truth, yes. "Id est," if the Departmnet of Education's say so is determines if something is acccredited. Benn Newman 23:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Great so you're using this as a political statement. 1) The United States Department of Education DOES NOT accredite schools; it is done through private organizations elected by schools. 2) This articles lacks WP:V if its a school. Accreditation is the WP:V of schools other than press articles, etc. 3) What makes this notable? Arbusto 00:20, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. I don't see any problem with verifying this since a rapid check brought up enough press coverage in the Gazette and Christianity Today to confirm its info. It also figures prominently on our List of unaccredited institutions of higher learning. Thus per the list guideline, we should maintain the article. --JJay 00:22, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Please provide some links for your claims. I saw an ad in Christianity Today for the school (no mention of it in any article). I typed in "Gazette and New Geneva Theological Seminary" and got nothing of value. Fails notability. Also I would like you to deal with the admin. concerns of you disputing my afds before carrying on. Arbusto 04:45, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps you didn't bother clicking on links in your "rapid check"? Arbusto 05:00, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm not "disputing your" Afds whatever that means. I believe wikipedia should have articles on all institutions of higher learning worldwide, particularly when they are already included on lists at wikipedia. I would respectfully suggest that you not nominate articles for deletion if you can not tolerate differing viewpoints. As for your request for links, the publications I named were among the initial hits in google. Regarding your last comment, WP:CIV is a link you should immediately review. --JJay 05:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Do you have any links to support your "rapid check" that you claim "brought up enough press coverage"? Arbusto 05:20, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Why did you enter in a false reference? That article you cited does not mention New Geneva[1], which explains why you didn't give any link[2]. The Gazette article you cited (October 2, 1998) is NOT online, try searching the name, date, and title[3]. That's why you didn't link to the article. I can't find anything about this place at lexis-nexis.com nor can I even confirm the source. Is that the best you can do an offline local news source from 8 years ago (that of course assuming you provide a valid link for it-as you said above you found it on google)? Arbusto 22:12, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
The references provided are real [4]. As stated in my first message, they confirm everything in the article. Do not make accusations and personal attacks without basis. Please review WP:AGF and WP:CIV. --JJay 00:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I understand that violations of WP:AGF and WP:CIV can be tiresome but you are only encouraging it by claiming a quick check proves notability without providing any proof.
HOW ARE YOU USING THIS AS A REFERENCE FOR NOTABILITY? THIS IS REALLY A MENTION OF GENEVA (that applies to your claim that there is "enough press coverage")?

The New Geneva Theological Seminary, Colorado Springs, Colorado, has named Dominic Aquila as its president. Aquila was instrumental in establishing the Colorado Springs campus of Knox Theological Seminary (now New Geneva) in 1993.[5]

Is that the best you can do to justify another keep vote in one of my afds? Arbusto 00:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I suggest you reread my initial comment above. Otherwise, your continued violations of WP:AGF and WP:CIV is starting to become tiresome. --JJay 00:53, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

How does that prove notability? Also please provide the "many" links to support your "rapid check" that you claim "brought up enough press coverage". Or this is just another afd you've disrupted. Arbusto 02:57, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

  • I have said nothing about many links. Please stop putting words in my mouth. I would urge you, though, to redact your claims that the school was not verifiable as well as your false statements regarding the references. And for the last time, please review WP:CIV, WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Your last comment is a violation of all three. --JJay 03:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

According to AGF, "This policy does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of evidence to the contrary. Actions inconsistent with good faith include vandalism, confirmed malicious sockpuppetry, and lying." This just another afd that you involved yourself in to make a point and attack me in when you contribute nothing to the discussion. I again ask where are the links that you found that "brought up enough press coverage". Arbusto 03:25, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I have attacked you nowhere on this page. It makes no difference to me who nominates articles on AfD. I will say that your continued attacks, attempts to personalize this discussion, hostility to opposing viewpoints and general uncivil tone is completely uncalled for. I won't respond anymore to this type of behavior here. --JJay 03:30, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Please supply those links you claimed to have. The other issues should be dealt with here. Arbusto 03:53, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Note to closing administrator. I have added two valid references (Christianity Today, Colorado Springs gazette articles) that address the nominator's stated concerns regarding WP:V. The nominator has repeatedly removed the references from the article [6], [7], [8], [9] while inserting fact tags. See talk page for further details [10]. This is an unacceptable way of managing a deletion nomination. --JJay 17:38, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Do you have the links you claimed to have to verify that content? Arbusto 17:52, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Arbusto 03:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep This appears to be a legitimate seminary for Presbyterian ministers. According to a story here the president was elected the moderator for the next national conclave - a fairly big deal. I see various faculty associated with the university appearing online. They may not be an accredited university, but since they are only producing ministers, they probably don't care. We list high schools and elementary schools, why not a seminary? Brianyoumans 05:40, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
You are asserting we should keep an article about this seminary because the current seimnary president once served as the "moderator of the 34th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in America"? Is that what you are saying? For claims on the president belong at that afd: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dominic Aquila.
The link you provide proves notablity how? The only mention of New Geneva is:

Aquila, the president of New Geneva Theological Seminary in Colorado Springs, Colorado, has served on a number of committees in the PCA, including the Covenant College Board and Mission to the World. He has preached and taught in Jamaica, Mexico, Canada, Ivory Coast, Kenya, England, Korea, Grenada, Ukraine, Trinidad, Myanmar, Spain and Morocco.[11]

Are they producing ministers? How many students attend? Is this bigger than a high school? Can you compare it to a high school? Does it have classrooms? Is it ran out of an apartment? Do the teachers have accredited degrees? How many teachers are there? Why isn't it accredited? Etc etc. Without such issues to be judged with WP:V independent from the place itself such as article will be about what it isn't (accredited) and what the group claims to be. That is not how article should be written.
Oh yeah, we don't keep all high schools and elemnetary schools. So that's not a reason to keep. Arbusto 07:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
How? You keep voting in these schools afds keep. This is not a vote, this is a discussion. You will not be taken seriously without explaining how it is WP:V. Arbusto 17:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Comment Take a chill pill.Edison 20:28, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
It has references, therefore it meets WP:V. JYolkowski // talk 20:47, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Two "references". One local one from 1998 and one from 2001, which says the name of school president. Does that make it notable? Arbusto 23:49, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, looks like it has been verifyed, and it's presendent asserts some sort of notiblity. --Rayc 20:55, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, appears to meet our content policies. An appropriate merge would be perfectly acceptable. Christopher Parham (talk) 21:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Bucketsofg 21:23, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete generic unaccredited college, no evidence of multiple non-trivial coverage in independent sources of provable autority. Guy 22:39, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete nn. Mukadderat 09:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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