Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Miss Teenage California

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. After reviewing the arguments here as well as the sources presented, WP:N is still not satisfied, as most of the articles are irrelevant, passing mentions, or sources simply stating that it exists, which is not enough (Wikipedia is not a guide to everything). --Coredesat 02:24, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Miss Teenage California

Non-notable state pageant. This articles is basically an advertisement for the competition (the author has been adding links all over the show) and is not notable in itself - there is a national competition but that in itself is not notable on the scale that Miss USA and Miss America system pageants are notable (is not nationally televised etc). Note that there are two similar but far more important pageants... the most important being Miss California Teen USA, the other being Miss California's Outstanding Teen (in its infancy but a MAO pageant nonetheless) -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 22:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The Miss California Teen USA Pageant is a BEAUTY CONTEST. Miss Teenage California is an extablished scholarship competition for young women, and attractiveness of the contestant's is only a part of the overall young woman the pageant attracts. Candidates are for the most part involved in school and community and maintain at least a 3.0 GPA. The pageant is notable because each year the winner is NOT the only contestant who wins significant awards. The runners up in the 2007 Miss Teenage California Pageant will win college scholarships of $5,000, $4,000, $3,000, and $2,000 respectively. I believe their are no significant scholarships awarded at Miss California USA, and the winner of the California's OUtstanding Teen Pageant last year won a $1,500 college scholarship. Laceydog 23:26, 28 January 2007 (UTC)laceydog

Esperanza, Apologies. So new to wikipedia.com Learning as I'm going here.24.23.51.248laceydog

Esperanza, please note that the Miss Teenage California Scholarship Pageant is nothing like Miss California Teen USA or California's Outstanding Teen Pageant. There is no swimsuit or talent competition at Miss Teenage California. The competitive categories are Achievements & Activities, Personality, Poise & Appearance in Formal Wear. Miss Teenage California was founded in 1980, Miss California Teen USA in 1983, and California Outstanding Teen in 2005. 24.23.51.248 08:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)laceydog

If truth be known the Miss Teenage California Scholarship Pageant existed long before either the Miss California Teen USA and California Outstanding Teen Pageant which is relatively new. These are established facts. The rpize package for Miss Teenage California stands alone as being among the top prize packages in the nation for a state pageant. This is the 28th consecutive year for Miss Teenage California. (See list of winners)

There is nothing of an "ad nature" in the article. The address of the production company, phone number are not even mentioned. Everything contained in the article is FACTUAL. "Esperanza" seems to think that simply because one girl goes to a nationally televised pageant it suddenly adds credence to the system. I beg to differ. Look at the website, study the prizes being awarded, the history of the event as the facts do indeed speak for themselves.

Non-notable state pageant? Miss Teenage California annually has over 200 contestants from every corner of the state. By comparison Miss California Teen USA has between 45-75. You also may wish to check out the prize differences. Our program has existed since 1980 and is the largest teen scholarship pageant in the nation.

• Comment The Miss California Teen USA pageant has dozens of local feeder pageants. Those 45-75 entrants were all winners of local or county pageants, which totalled many thousands of entrants. The winner of that pageant will go on to the nationally televised Miss Teen USA pageant. Your contestants will go where? There is no comparison between the two. Fan-1967 23:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

You need to check your facts. The Miss California USA Pageant and teen division NOW have very, very few local preliminary pageants. It is almost entirely at-large. If one is to make verbost statements, please back up with fact. Years ago the pageant had several local pageants. The pageant is now almost entirely at-large with few exceptions.

• Comment And just a note, "Miss California Teen USA" turns up 4x the ghits of "Miss Teenage California" (and the fact that the Miss CA Teen USA title is often incorrectly termed means that there should be even more). -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 23:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The article has been redesigned, hopefully to your satisfaction. Thank you.

• Delete The remaining difficulty is notability. There are no references on this article. Forget google count - there are some google hits that seem to describe this pageant - but these all seem to be blogs and the like. What would help is providing multiple non trivial reliable sources, such as an LA Times article on this pageant or something similar.Obina 23:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Esperanza had mentioned in response earlier, that their are other " far more important pageants", and she gave reference to both Miss California Teen USA and California's Outstanding Teenager. While I'm willing to update and change information for suitablity I take som offense to these remarks simply because they are not based in fact. Here are the facts. The Miss Teenage California Pageant was founded in 1980. Miss California Teen USA some years thereafter and the California's Outstanding Teen Pageant is only two years old. These are facts. More facts? The winner of the California's Outstanding Teen Pageant won a $1,500 college scholarship. Our winner receives a $10,000 college scholarship and $5,000 cash. The Miss California Teen USA winner receives very little in comparison to our state winner. Both of the other mentioned pageants that Esperanza notes, do not offer substantial college scholarships to their runners-up. It is a fact our 4th runner up at Miss Teenage California receives more than the winner of the Ca. Outstanding Teen Pageant. I would further go on to state that someone who wishes for me to provide "reliable sources" does not even know how to spell the word "pageant" correctly.

I wish for someone to be exact in the criticism of input, as EVERYTHING mentioned is factual. What more do you need?— 24.23.51.248 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletions. -- SkierRMH 02:01, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

• 24.23.51.248 please do not delete other user's comments on this page, especially the AfD summary. -- Kesh 03:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - This article provides no verifiable sources to establish notability. - Shaundakulbara 04:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The definition of "notability" is vague at best, and doesn't constitute basic facts that exist in the text. Wikipedia needs to do a better job in explaining this. It's rather "wordy" diatribe hardly makes it easier for the layman to contribute.

This may help to clarify notability. And I also suggest this great essay. But it really is easy. I may not be able to spell "pageant" but my goal is to help - if you could suggest 2 newspapers articles or similar describing this event, then editors will want to keep.Obina 22:27, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Here are some links which may be helpful:

Sources http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/03/05/news/coastal/3_4_0423_01_47.txt

http://www.pageant.com/news/archive/news2006q2.html

http://www.scholarships-ar-us.org/scholarships/beauty-pageants.htm

http://www.paly.net/news/old/20061023.php

http://scholarshipsonthe.net/scholarships-beauty-pagent-scholarships.html

http://www.chs.srvusd.k12.ca.us/CHSHOMEPAGE/Scholarships/Scholarship3.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.23.51.248 (talk • contribs) 23:08, January 25, 2007 (UTC)

Comment Of these, one is from Pageant News Bureau, which covers all pageants, even squitty little ones, so that doesn't prove much. The first one is good, although its more about the locals than the state pageant, the rest are just lists of scholarships and I can't see that establishing notability. Others might disagree, but that's just my opinion. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 01:01, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

ADDITIONAL SOURCES: (Added here on 01-26-07)

http://www.svcn.com/archives/almadenresident/20040520/ar-news1.shtml

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/03/29_pov.shtml

http://www.paly.net/news/old/20061023.php

http://www.folsom.ca.us/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=3788

• Somewhat-weak keep. I added two sources to the article and formatted it a little better. At least one of the previous winners appears to have gone on to compete in Miss USA. Another one may have moved to Utah and won a major pagent there; but I'm not really sure it's the same girl. It may not be the most important teen pagent in California; but I think it's probably notable enough that there's no reason to delete this simple little stub. Moreover Miss California Teen USA, has the same number of references (2). ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually several Miss Teenage California winners have gone on to win other major pageants: (Added 01-26-07)

1980- Amy Coverdale. She competed as Miss Missouri USA and was a Top 10 finalist the year that Laura Martinez Herring was crowned Miss USA. She represented Missouri as her family relocated there.

1981- Christina Landman. Won the Miss U.S. Teen Pageant in Lake Charles, LA.

1982- Jodee Dominici. Won Miss Intercontinental in Cartegena, Colombia.

1986- Aya Peard. Won Miss Teen America title in Los Angeles that same yr.

1987- Melissa Anderson. Won Miss Utah USA 1998 and was a top 5 finalist at Miss USA. (Family relocated to Utah).

1988- Deana Avila. Won Miss California USA 1995 and competed at Miss USA.

1991- Tiara English. Won Mrs. California 2001 and competed at Mrs.America.

1993- Jessica Morales. Was 2nd runner up at Miss California USA 2001 Pageant.

1997- Kristen Hungerford. Won Miss Teenage International in South America.

1998- Natalie Arena. Won America's Perfect Teen Pageant in Myrtle Beach, S.C.

1999- Ellen Chapman. Won Miss California USA 2004 and competed at Miss USA

2001- Ami Geist. Was 3rd runner up at Miss North American Teen in Florida.

2002- Tara Sanders. Won Miss Teen of the Nation Pageant in Las Vegas.

2006- Caitlin Barrett. Won Miss Teen of the Nation Pageant in Las Vegas.

Three Miss Teenage California's have gone on to compete at the Miss USA Pageant, four have won national pageant titles, and two have won International pageant titles. Numerous runners up in national pageants since 1980. Laceydog 17:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

• • Comment it makes it a little hard to follow the conversation when we don't know who is talking. You can sign your posts by typing four ~s at the end; like this ~~~~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 17:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

• • Comment the issue is that the winners didn't go to Miss USA or whatever because they were Miss Teenage California, but because they later won other titles. Quite a few of the other titles you noted are notable, but things like "Miss Teen of the Nation Pageant", "Miss North American Teen ", "Miss U.S. Teen Pageant ", "Miss Intercontinental", "America's Perfect Teen " are not. -- PageantUpdater • talk | contribs | esperanza 18:46, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

• • Comment Miss Teen of the Nation is an extablished national pageant of over 20 years duration. Miss North American Teen, Miss U.S. Teen and America's Perfect Teen Pageants are no longer, however I seriously doubt those title holders, and their families would deem them not noteworthy.

Laceydog 19:13, 26 January 2007 (UTC)laceydog— Laceydog (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Further, it is important to mention that Miss Teenage California is a scholarship program which offers their winner the OPTION of competing at a national pageant. It is an independent, as participation in a national pageant is just one prize that can be accepted or declined by the winner of the state pageant. I believe the winners of Miss Teenage California might be more interested in the $10,000 college scholarship and $5,000 cash, rather than competing in a winner take all nationally televised event, where the runners up receive very little. All of that data can easily be verified. User: Laceydog— Laceydog (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Laceydog, do not remove other user's comments from this page, especially the AfD nomination. -- Kesh 04:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Kesh, my apologies. So new to this. Laceydog 08:12, 28 January 2007 (UTC)laceydog

Most notable state pageant in California, outside of Miss California (state finals to Miss America) and Miss California USA. Third longest running state pageant in state. Laceydog 20:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)laceydog

• Delete per well thought out nom. Completely agree that Miss California Teen USA is a viable encyclopedia article, while this article fails Wikipedia:Notability... Addhoc 20:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.