Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Tyrell (drug trafficker)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Daniel Bryant 07:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Tyrell (drug trafficker)

Michael Tyrell (drug trafficker) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

The subject of this biographical article is non-notable. There are few sources to justify this article other than the one crime report provided by the Evening Standard.-- Zleitzen^(talk) 21:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. A criminal who committed a routine crime, unlikely to be of lasting or widespread interest. - Smerdis of Tlön 21:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:N Alf^Photoman 22:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. (original author) I would hardly think that the smuggling one of the largest shipments of cocaine into Great Britain by a well known Carribean based drug trafficker to be a routine crime. There are quite a few news reports available for a subsciption fee at Google's news archive. MadMax 03:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. There's been some discussion, although no apparent consensus, about the standards that news reports about crimes need to rise to in order to be proper encyclopedia subjects. Versus the obvious fact that they typically do usually meet the basic standard of disinterested, third party coverage, there is the sense that we ought not to be creating a memorial to every crime or criminal. As to the specifics of this crime, while half a ton of cocaine is nothing to sniff at — aye, it's a great deal to sniff at — it isn't particularly impressive by U.S. standards; there are at least several thousand people in U.S. prisons who could top that. There are, of course, also WP:LIBEL considerations when living dealing with people who are accused, or stand convicted of crimes. Have any important legal or police precedents been set by his case? - Smerdis of Tlön 18:19, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• This may certainly be true by U.S. standards, and while that may be an unfair comparison, by British (and arguably European) standards it is one of the largest ever to be smuggled into the country. It was also the subject one of the largest survailance operations undertaken by British customs officials. Additionally, his wife and co-conspiraitor Julie Paterson, apparently a personal friend of actor Timothy Dalton, was sentenced the largest prison term ever given to a female drug trafficker. All of the points are stated and cited in the article. Also, if there is discussion on establishing notability on criminals, WikiProject Crime or any of its related projects may also be interested in contributing to the discussion. MadMax 20:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• delete Although I believe that that the scale of the crime makes it a worthy article, it is based upon such an unreliable source (a single article in the Evening Standard), is lacking in detail and contains so many flaws that it should be deleted. For a start, Michael Tyrrell is spelt with 2 "r's" and he was not married to Julie Paterson (she was a former girlfriend). Michael Tyrrell's partner was Jill Fuller and between them they bought four properties in the UK with a value exceeding £1 million. One of these properties was Orchard Bay House on the Isle of Wight and it was here that the smuggling operation took place. It was Jill Fuller who was convicted of money laundering (not Julie Paterson) and she got a sentence of 4 years. Jill Fuller was a friend of Timothy Dalton and he was a character witness at her trial. Julie Paterson did indeed receive 24 years, the longest sentence for a female trafficker in the UK, although this was subsequently reduced to 22 years on appeal. The comment that this crime is small by American standards is not a good reason for deleting this article but it so fundamentally flawed, it should go. Negferret 14:45, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

• If there are obvious flaws or otherwise innaccurate information, then it should be corrected, not deleted. As I live outside the UK, my sources are limited to internet news articles and reference books generally between 5-10 years out of date. However, I would assume editors from Great Britain would be able to provide more substansial inforation and references. Obviously as this infomation has since been corrected, this issue should be resolved. MadMax 23:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep There is sufficient source material to include an attributed, encyclopedic article about Michael Tyrell. See, for example, (i) Whitehead , Tom. (April 29, 2002 ) PA NEWS Drug smuggler's girlfriend guilty of money laundering. ; (ii) The Scotsman (April 30, 2002) Drug money laundered. Page 6.; (iii) The Daily Mirror (July 2, 2002) 007 pal in drug plot: Close friend of James Bond star Timothy Dalton jailed for part in a pounds 40 million drugs plot. Section:News; Page 15.; (iv) Daily Record (Scotland) (July 2, 2002) Cocaine baron's wife gets 4 years. Section: News; Page 19.; (v) PA NEWS (December 17, 2002) Operation 'eyeful': Two jailed for drug trafficking - British woman. ; (vi) Dovkants, Keith. (December 20, 2002) Evening Standard From country girl to Cocaine Queen She was a farmer's daughter who walked out on her marriage to the scion of a Norfolk dynasty for the glitz of the Caribbean yachting set. Then Julie Paterson fell obsessively in love with a self-confessed drug runner ... Page 1819.; (vii) Kirby, Jane. (April 25, 2003) PA NEWS Money laundering woman faces more jail.; (viii) Dowell, Ben; Clarke, Liam. (May 16, 2004) The Sunday Times (UK) IRA chief joins criminal 'elite' with Euro 50m fortune. Section: Home news; Page 9. -- Jreferee 06:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 08:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete So he smugged drugs. That is hardly norable, even if it was a large amount. TJ Spyke 08:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. The same case could be made for George Jung or Zachary Swann, however both men are also considered notable drug dealers as well. While it would be unfair to compare between American and British drug traffickers (given the larger customer base, supply/demand, street value, etc.), the fact remains Tyrell's career is just as notable as a number of drug traffickers already existing on Wikipedia. MadMax 23:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

• Weak keep, there are few sources available online at this point but they do attest to the "record £100M haul", so there's that. The article could use a touch-up, but with these sources I suppose it passes WP:N. I would move to Michael Tyrrell as about 4-5 times as many sources have that spelling. -- Dhartung | Talk 08:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep mmm, drugs. Nardman1 13:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
• Comment The sources cited are mostly from what is known as the 'gutter press' which thrive on salacious gossip and are known for sensationalism. It is laughable to rely on such tittle tattle. When time allows, I'll present further information from reliable sources such as the UK Government agencies and the BBC. The article should not be published until it is corrected Negferret 18:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Uh, Negferret ... it's already published. Are you sure you understand how this works? -- Dhartung | Talk 21:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
• Tentative Keep the criterion for criminal notability is still ambiguous, but I think this article does fit the general criteria of inclusion set by WP:BIO, since the person has been main subject of articles on several national newspapers. Until new rules for notability of criminals are set by wiki community, I say now we should keep it, at least for now. Wooyi 04:09, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, as many sources appear to exist. The fact that many of those sources are not available online is a horrible argument. Please imagine for a second what Wikipedia would look like if we would not allow offline sources. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 14:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, certainly not an ordinary criminal, notable... notorious enough. --FateClub 20:57, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per the addition of multiple references by Jreferee (see diff) that establish the notability of the subject. Arguments for deletion presented so far are either no longer applicable (only one source) or subjective and unconvincing ("routine crime", "so he smuggled drugs"). -- Black Falcon 03:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep based on the recent sources provided, subject meets and exceeds our standards for notability. RFerreira 03:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.