Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Members of Westboro Baptist Church

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. -Doc ^ask? 23:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Members of Westboro Baptist Church

ATTENTION! If you came to this page because a friend asked you to do so, or because you saw a message on an online forum asking you to do so, please note that this is not a vote on whether or not this article is to be deleted. It is not true that everyone who shows up to a deletion discussion gets an automatic vote just for showing up. The deletion process is designed to determine the consensus of opinion of Wikipedia editors; for this reason comments from users whose histories do not show experience with or contributions to Wikipedia are traditionally given less weight and may be discounted entirely. You are not barred from participating in the discussion, no matter how new you may be, and we welcome reasoned opinions and rational discussion based upon our policies and guidelines. However, ballot stuffing is pointless. There is no ballot to stuff. This is not a vote, and decisions are not made upon weight of numbers alone. Furthermore, the presence of many new users in discussions like this one has made some editors in the past more inclined to suggest deletion. Please review Wikipedia:Deletion policy for more information.

This article, Members of Westboro Baptist Church, purports to be a listing of all current members of the infamous Westboro Baptist Church. The list appears to violate WP:OR (original conclusions), WP:RS (dubious sources), WP:NPOV (negative gossip), and WP:NOT (genealogy). Some of these members are minors, and there is far too much personal information, some of it highly speculative accusations. What little material in the list that is encyclopedic could be in the biographies of notable members or in the main article on the church. But most of this "information", and the title itself, should be deleted. Will Beback 23:07, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nomination. --Metropolitan90 23:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete We know who Westboro Baptist Church are, and my personal opinions aside, we don't need to know every single one of them. Beno1000 00:29, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

• Keep The article has now been condensed and is much more concise, and is much more encyclopedic. Beno1000 14:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. --Muchness 00:49, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. TheProject 00:59, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
• Speedy delete due to inclusion of minors' personally identifying information without permission. Thatcher131 03:58, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
  • COMMENT--Much of that information was taken from other news sources, thus permission was already granted as part of the interview. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 160.147.240.6 (talk • contribs).
• Speedy delete Merecat 18:34, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
• this article should remain for everyone to know what a vile family and association they are and to understand the history of the hatred that they are spewing from their practices. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.8.200.52 (talk • contribs).
• Comment I am not sure that the members of this church would conclude that their inclusion on the membership list is "negative gossip"...If "negative gossip" is in the eye of the beholder (or nominator) perhaps we should get rid of all lists of members of congress or MPs. Carlossuarez46 22:36, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment, if you read the article you'll see there is plenty of gossip included. It is not a bare list. -Will Beback 23:19, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
    • COMMENT I am sure that most of the people pushing for the deletion of this entry are members of the Church in question. They are an embarrasment to this nation. They are insulting the people that DIED, WILLINGLY, to support their right to say FOOLISH things like this. Man, its going to piss these people off when they die and find St. John standing in front of the gates dressed in BDUs (Battle Dress Uniform...Camoflage Uniform). This article needs to stay. These people are blatently stupid and deserve the negative publicity they are getting. They claimed the holocaust (nazis killing the jews) was just a MINOR mishap and that the Jews are the real nazis. I dont know how you can be so stupid as to think something like that. This isnt a religion...this is borderline CULT.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.243.49.233 (talk • contribs) 06:54, 2 May 2006 .
• Delete per WP:NOT. Specifically, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Stifle (talk) 18:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - The Westboro and Fred Phelps articles are approaching, if not already exceeding, the recommended Wikipedia article sizes. Thus, merger with those articles would be IMHO impractical. Westboro acts as a collective when it protests groups and individuals; even its youngest members participate in the protests. Although the group thrives on publicity, all the information is in the public record already and it is pertinent to know who is involved with this organization. I vote to keep the article as a stand-alone, both due to size problems with combining it and due to its importance. 160.147.240.6 18:56, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep - A reference is needed for this subject. Possibly editing for content would be more helpful than deletion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.18.126.124 (talk • contribs).

• keep I agree fullhearteadly. The Fred Phelps, and Westboro Baptist Church pages are some of the best articles I've come across on Wikipedia. This article helps support the Westboro page quite significantly, emphasizing the type of people who are part of this church. Please don't delete. If anything, this article should be merged with the Westboro Baptist Church page. --70.161.246.22 00:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
• keep- i found this off a google search, and i did not know who this church was. Exclude the minors from the listing, but the article itself is informative, and i have seen one of the nutter's on fox news. it belongs here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.225.32.94 (talk • contribs).

• keep Page has been edited to remove church listing(to include minors), as well as anything not in accordance with Wikipedia Policy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.18.126.124 (talk • contribs). Note: User:70.18.126.124 already voted above.
• Don't Delete —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.144.209.229 (talk • contribs).
• Please dont delete this page, i think the people of the nation should see how ignorant this specific sect of "christianity" is —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.97.97.165 (talk • contribs).
• I agree fullhearteadly. The Fred Phelps, and Westboro Baptist Church pages are some of the best articles I've come across on Wikipedia. This article helps support the Westboro page quite significantly, emphasizing the type of people who are part of this church. Please don't delete. If anything, this article should be merged with the Westboro Baptist Church page. --70.161.246.22 00:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete ASAP-giving these judgmental, rude, ignorant people preaching a different and incorrect form of Christianity (it is not christian, feel free to worship as you wish, but do not bring down a good faith by labeling yours Christian) is not significant enough to waste space on. A reference page for mental instablility and disturbing the dead would be just as helpful of a page for these people. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.220.130.77 (talk • contribs).
• Comment. Please, everybody, sign your votes. Even if you are not a registered user, you can still "sign" by ending your message with four tildes like this: ~~~~ That will automatically insert your user id, the date and time. --Metropolitan90 02:44, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
• Kill. While the Westboro Baptist "church", if they deserve the name, is a living mockery of all that religion is supposed to be about, a list of their members is not notable enough to be worth keeping, and this one is low quality besides. In fact, the main article on Phelps may also be too long for his notability status. --Tjstrf 03:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - It's a real part of our society. Those seeking information regarding their practices shouldn't necessarily be subjected to the offensive content contained within their official website. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.203.211.216 (talk • contribs).
• Keep - Page does not violate any rules. I'm not afraid of Westboro's legal bullying and neither should anyone else. Take a stand! Will Beback only has a problem with this page because he's an obvious Phelps ally. Consider the far right wing churches listed on his personal page. --TheDoober 04:36, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. This discussion is not about deleting the main article about Westboro Baptist Church. It's about deleting the article listing all the members of the church. The main article about the church isn't going away. --Metropolitan90 04:38, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment Correct. We'll be keeping the articles detailing the acts, we just won't have the article that tells us that 6yo little Tommy Phelps (made up name) is now a member of the cult, having officially insulted his first random passerby. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tjstrf (talk • contribs) 17:49, 2 May 2006 .

• Delete. Will's nomination is convincing. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:55, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
• "'Keep'"*, because to delete it would simply be to acknowledge we're afraid of them (which I, personally, am not). These people are inbreeding and preaching on and on about how fortunate it is that our soldiers are being killed, how right they are and how angry their "Lord and God" is. I say, let them continue to make public idiots of themselves. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.111.231.101 (talk • contribs) 05:32, 4 May 2006.
• "'"Keep'"* but Edit - These people need to be EXPOSED both collectively and as individuals.YetAnotherGuy 17:30, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

• KEEP--- Definitely kep this and, no,don't edit it. These people need to be viewed in the true light of the way they are. People need to know how sick and twisted this group of people is. It makes me sick that they use the lords name to justify their reasonings. They are nothing of God or any religion. They are nothing more than a cult. And yes keep the article about the members of the church. They need to be exposed for what they are. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.91.189.2 (talk • contribs) 07:34, 4 May 2006.

• KEEP but delete minors names —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.166.33.182 (talk • contribs) 09:50, 4 May 2006.
• Speedy delete I'm surprised this is still here, actually. WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of info. M1ss1ontomars2k4 04:40, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. - Jersyko·talk 01:42, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.