Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Man-Faye (2nd nomination)
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep, sock or no sock. - Mailer Diablo 07:06, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Man-Faye
- Man-Faye was nominated for deletion on 2006-07-17. The result of the prior discussion was "no consensus". For the prior discussion, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Man-Faye.
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Man-Faye has the same relevancy than other otakus from whom there are not articles about because they are not relevant. Crossplaying, being mocked up on tv, and being taken out from a convention are NOT reasons at all to be there (same accomplishments than the Narutard and many others). Goggle has tons of examples of men dressed as a female anime character, and none of them deserve a sole article. This article doesn't have anything to add that is not covered in the Crossplay article. DrJones 19:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep - Man Faye is notable, more so by far than any other cosplayer, and despite repeated claims that he is not, he has continued to pop up over and over in various media. Complaints of POV during the last nomination have been addressed, and the article is fairly solid as it is. Elijya 21:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep - Man-Faye is the more noteable of the cosplayers.crossplayers out there. The fact that he's been seen in national media (as opposed to fan sites a/or imageboards) is more than crediable enough to warrant inclusion.--293.xx.xxx.xx 12:39, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Strong Deletion- The reason for the deletion is the subject of the article, not the content. Man-Faye utterly fails at accomplishing anything that makes him unique. The only point at his favor ? appearing on TV as a laughable random guy. Compare him with [Manolo el del bombo], who appears on the spanish News everytime he shows on any stadium, has twice the google hits of Man-Faye, is well beloved, and yet doesn't have its own an article (nor deserves it). Infamous local figures should also do something remarkably and positive inside its small group to deserve an article by itself. Having poor taste is not enough. An example of a remarkable local figure is Mike Long. Compare him with Man-Faye. DrJones 11:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
- Mike Long's only on here because he contributed to Magic: the Gathering. Much as Man-Faye has contributed to Cosplay (famously and infamously). Outside of the respective niche hobbies, how many times can you note Mike Long being on TV?? Or any televised M:TG matches on such formats like ESPN or Spike TV? None. No, MTV doesn't count, those M;TG spots were merely glorified commercial endorsements. Again, you've run outta steam. --293.xx.xxx.xx 12:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
- That is non-sense. Why would anyone care about them outside their "niche hobbies"? When someone looks for Gorbachov, he/she wants info about his job as a politician, not about the pizza spot in which he appeared. Second, having contributed is not the key point, but how much have they contributed. Mike Long piloted the first combo deck in Magic: The Gathering, developing an entire new strategy for the game, and thus creating a more stable environment denoted many times as rock-paper-scissors. He also has won multiple important tournaments and played a major role in the success of the Pro Tour. His contributions to the game redefined it. By contrast, the contribution of Man-Faye to Cosplay is so slim that makes me sad, unless he had done a major contribution that is found nowhere on the article. He isn't even the first crossplayer. DrJones 11:37, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
- You brought it up. I merely pointed out that your trying to validate one "insignificant" person who's fame is limited to one aspect of society, yet you want to delete an article where another guy's fame is limited to an aspect of society. I mean, by your logic, should we continue on deleting people who's fame is limited to one aspect of society? Should we delete all the noteable Magic Players, because only a handful of society knows them? Request a Speedy Close to this nomination page. --293.xx.xxx.xx 07:09, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
- You still don't understand my words. My point is that people whose fame is limited to an aspect of society should have made something worthwhile inside that aspect of society. Man-Faye has done nothing thousands of people haven't done on carvanal every year. Also, you have refused all this time to give/write on the article just one major contribution of Man-Faye to his "area of interest". I hope the administrators read this and Speedy delete this article alongside this nomination page. :) DrJones 10:22, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
- WP:CIV please. Just because I never contributed to the article doesn't disqualify me from supporting it. --293.xx.xxx.xx 05:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- You keep missing the point (or I write horribly). I'm not saying you cannot support him, just that I have not seen any remarkable contribution from Man-Faye to cosplay neither on this discussion, nor in the article. As you defend he has, you should at least specify them. DrJones 12:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- WP:CIV please. Just because I never contributed to the article doesn't disqualify me from supporting it. --293.xx.xxx.xx 05:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- You still don't understand my words. My point is that people whose fame is limited to an aspect of society should have made something worthwhile inside that aspect of society. Man-Faye has done nothing thousands of people haven't done on carvanal every year. Also, you have refused all this time to give/write on the article just one major contribution of Man-Faye to his "area of interest". I hope the administrators read this and Speedy delete this article alongside this nomination page. :) DrJones 10:22, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
- You brought it up. I merely pointed out that your trying to validate one "insignificant" person who's fame is limited to one aspect of society, yet you want to delete an article where another guy's fame is limited to an aspect of society. I mean, by your logic, should we continue on deleting people who's fame is limited to one aspect of society? Should we delete all the noteable Magic Players, because only a handful of society knows them? Request a Speedy Close to this nomination page. --293.xx.xxx.xx 07:09, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
- That is non-sense. Why would anyone care about them outside their "niche hobbies"? When someone looks for Gorbachov, he/she wants info about his job as a politician, not about the pizza spot in which he appeared. Second, having contributed is not the key point, but how much have they contributed. Mike Long piloted the first combo deck in Magic: The Gathering, developing an entire new strategy for the game, and thus creating a more stable environment denoted many times as rock-paper-scissors. He also has won multiple important tournaments and played a major role in the success of the Pro Tour. His contributions to the game redefined it. By contrast, the contribution of Man-Faye to Cosplay is so slim that makes me sad, unless he had done a major contribution that is found nowhere on the article. He isn't even the first crossplayer. DrJones 11:37, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per Elijya. 'Cause Manolo el del bombo now has an article, and deserves it. :) Dezro 01:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Without entering into debates about if Manolo el del bombo deserves the article or not (you have read my opinion about him already), that doesn't mean that Man-Faye also deserves it, because Man-Faye is far less popular both in media coverage and google results than him, which for an internet meme is disastrous. DrJones 12:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep as per Elijya. Dionyseus 18:48, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per Elijya. A notable figure both as a cosplay icon and as an Internet meme. Danny Lilithborne 19:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep Repeating my vote from the previous AfD. I see no reason to change it because someone doesn't like him or thinks that Man-Faye should not be notable despite his infamy. --TheFarix (Talk) 03:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment, I'll admit I'm a bit dubious of whether Man-Faye would actually pass WP:BIO, but I think it's quite possible to pass him under WP:MEME. Thoughts? Luna Santin 05:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think he meets the Wikipedia:Notability (web), plus the article written as-is covered most of his "history" and doesn't seem to be a vanity article in the slightest sense. Likewise, his noteability stems from the fact that he cosplayed a very well known fictional character, and made a parody of it. Of course, the result....--293.xx.xxx.xx 11:02, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete - At the end of the day, the Mr. Faye isn't a historical figure nor is he a beloved or despised person: Merely a mediocre footnote in passing trends. Half the memes on Wikipedia are passing trends. It might be interesting to note which memes can stand the test of time, but it would simply bloat wikipedia trying to list them all. What Man Faye does is nothing new or noteworthy or particularly shocking. Let's try to trim wikipedia whenever we can; the rest of the Internet can carry on Man Faye. Emil_lang
- Strong Keep - There are some articles on Wikipedia that simply boggle my mind as to why they exist, yet I don't think they should be deleted simply because someone may come along trying to find information about it that may not be found elsewhere. For example, I bet there are very few people today who would remember a mediocre 80's cartoon like Turbo Teen, yet there is an article here about it. Knowledge is knowledge, even if it's trivial.Djseifer 12:50, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep - There are a lot of articles about video game characters, like for example characters from Suikoden, you can get a synopsis on. I wouldn't say that this info is particularly important, but it is nice to have! So why not have an article about Man-Faye. The article is not about adulating man-Faye but to inform for example european cosplay fans about this "event" in american cosplay culture. Wikipedia is a source of information, so why delete information, someone might be interested in? The article on man-Faye is well written and neutral in tone, so I say we keep it. 217.235.178.60 14:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletions. -- TheFarix (Talk) 17:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment I just noticed that this AfD was never listed on WP:AFD. It has now been listed --TheFarix (Talk) 17:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. The subject is well known within his niche, the internet at large, and has made several cable network television appearances as well. RFerreira 21:32, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- WARNING users on 4chan (/cgl/) are trying to skew this AfD towards delete.... LinaMishima 21:34, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Update although some of the strong keeps will be for this reason too, as they want to spite the person who requested that... LinaMishima 21:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep although they are not marked as references, he's had TV appearances, which hence allow WP:V to be met safely. LinaMishima 21:42, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per Elijya Aye-Aye 17:23, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep he passes WP:BIO- he's a cult figure whio has had specific media coverage. The article has been cleaned up since the previous AFD nomination. -- Whpq 20:21, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Some of the arguments for deleting the article is that Man-Faye hasn't contributed anything useful to his niche. That's not a reason for deletion. If being an attention-whore were to be grounds for deletion, there wouldn't be a Paris Hilton article. The fact is, Man-Faye has managed to be a successful attention-whore, and has been covered in media. One's opinion on whether the individual has made a significant contribution is irrelevant. -- Whpq 20:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Paris Hilton has entered the Guiness Book of Records as the most pointless celeb, though. That's quite an accomplishment no other attention-whore has achieved. I think a more proper analogy for Man-Faye would be this: ["I didn't do it!"] . I think that the world has millions of weirdos that haven't done anything noteworthy and allowing Man-Faye to have his own Wikipedia page lowers the bar a bit too much. DrJones 10:45, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment What your argument boils down to is not whether Man-Faye is actually notable, but that you believe Man-Faye should never be notable regardless of how much publicity he may have acquired. --TheFarix (Talk) 12:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- I haven't said so. I have claimed, however, that he shouldn't have a wikipedia entry if he hasn't done anything remarkable (and that just going to conventions or appearing on tv on an irregular basis is not). The only remarkable things I can read on the article (and in forums) is: a) His cosplay is awful. b) He is somewhat popular. I can put here a link right now to a page with more than 300 people with awful cosplays (including sumo wrestlers dressed as Sailor Moons, with tested media coverage). Your only alternative, thus, is defending his popularity, which is a rather vague and POW term. My empyrical experiments with Google shown very low results for him (lower than obscure local figures), and many pages calling him a fad and an old meme (just like Bart Simpson on the above analogy), so I suppose I have the right to question his icon status. DrJones 22:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Wikipedia's notability guidelines are to determine if he is notable, not if he has done something remarkable. If he is verifiably notable, then that is enough bases for most editors. You, however, are trying to create an entirely different standard, notable and done something remarkable, which isn't supported by the majority of editor. --TheFarix (Talk) 22:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- I haven't said so. I have claimed, however, that he shouldn't have a wikipedia entry if he hasn't done anything remarkable (and that just going to conventions or appearing on tv on an irregular basis is not). The only remarkable things I can read on the article (and in forums) is: a) His cosplay is awful. b) He is somewhat popular. I can put here a link right now to a page with more than 300 people with awful cosplays (including sumo wrestlers dressed as Sailor Moons, with tested media coverage). Your only alternative, thus, is defending his popularity, which is a rather vague and POW term. My empyrical experiments with Google shown very low results for him (lower than obscure local figures), and many pages calling him a fad and an old meme (just like Bart Simpson on the above analogy), so I suppose I have the right to question his icon status. DrJones 22:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment What your argument boils down to is not whether Man-Faye is actually notable, but that you believe Man-Faye should never be notable regardless of how much publicity he may have acquired. --TheFarix (Talk) 12:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- Paris Hilton has entered the Guiness Book of Records as the most pointless celeb, though. That's quite an accomplishment no other attention-whore has achieved. I think a more proper analogy for Man-Faye would be this: ["I didn't do it!"] . I think that the world has millions of weirdos that haven't done anything noteworthy and allowing Man-Faye to have his own Wikipedia page lowers the bar a bit too much. DrJones 10:45, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- Can we bring this to an end? I realize that an AfD vote is not strictly decided by popular vote, but the results here are overwhelming: only two votes for deletion, one by the nominator (who doesn't do much to disguise his bias), and one by a user with less than 50 edits. Most of the supporters have all provided reasons for their suggestions to keep, and countered the reasons for deletion. Forgive me as I usually restrict my activities on wikipedia strictly to article content, but would any kind individuals more familiar with procedure hasten this debate to it's inevitable conclusion to keep the article? Thank you Elijya 21:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment It probably won't be closed anytime soon. The nomination wasn't completed until yesterday. The admins are probably waiting 5 days from the completed nomination before closing, just to be on the safe side. --TheFarix (Talk) 21:39, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment, yeah, that's unfortunate since the AfD's really been up for 10 days now and there was just some sort of error that kept most people from knowing about it. Elijya 22:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment, Just because someone deleted the original AfD (whether it be intentional or unintentional), and the requestor didn't keep tabs about it, it shouldn't be grounds for the debate to be extended further. It's been up past the 7 days, follow the rules. Speedy Close with extreme prejudice.--293.xx.xxx.xx 00:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment It's not the only AfD discussion to ongoing past 7 days, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of science fiction anime has been going on for just as long and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Live Action Anime shows no sign of closing despite being open for an astonishing 18 days. --TheFarix (Talk) 00:45, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment, Just because someone deleted the original AfD (whether it be intentional or unintentional), and the requestor didn't keep tabs about it, it shouldn't be grounds for the debate to be extended further. It's been up past the 7 days, follow the rules. Speedy Close with extreme prejudice.--293.xx.xxx.xx 00:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment, yeah, that's unfortunate since the AfD's really been up for 10 days now and there was just some sort of error that kept most people from knowing about it. Elijya 22:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment It probably won't be closed anytime soon. The nomination wasn't completed until yesterday. The admins are probably waiting 5 days from the completed nomination before closing, just to be on the safe side. --TheFarix (Talk) 21:39, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete. Most of the claims of notability are unreferenced or referenced only by a single source, which is an interview with the guy himself on a rumour site. That's not reliable, folks. Therefore, this article fails WP:V and WP:NOR, and must be deleted unless proper, reliable sources can be found. Just because he's infamous on some websites, and just because a lot of people seem to think the article should be kept, doesn't mean we can ignore fundamental Wikipedia policies. — Haeleth Talk 10:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
- Objection I wouldn't dismiss Anime News Network as a rumor website, given it's one of the bigger anime news sites out there. And while Tech TV has it's detractors, it does qualify as a legitimate verifiable source.--72.234.211.221 22:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep Seeing there are numerous "pointless" articles on Wikipedia (Ranging from insignificant car models like Keicars to Supercars that may never hit US shores ever to even TV shows that may never get seen on US shores as well), there is no harm in having this article on Wikipedia. It's not a vanity article like some would lead to believe, and i'm not seroiusly convinced that those that oppose it have provided a valid reason. One contributor nominated the article twice for deletion (This AfD and one that ended up as a no consensus) and even Man-Fayes talk page has shown his apparent bias.--72.234.211.221 22:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
