Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lord Cam

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Kirill Lokshin 03:59, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lord Cam

Appears to be musician vanity, in that article was started by User:Lordcam, who has no contributions to any other article. I don't see a page for any of his three names on Allmusic or a listing for his music on Amazon, and most googles appear to be mirrors of this article. As such, Delete, though I'd be open to evidence of notability if anyone else can find some. -Colin Kimbrell 03:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment: If we delete this page, we may also want to delete the category of Nevisian_musicians, as Lord Cam is the only entry in that category. -Colin Kimbrell 04:02, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
  • All the more reason to keep this article... We need more articles on smaller countries. Guettarda 04:11, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

What we need, though, are quality articles, not unverifiable and self-produced vanity pieces. The ONLY non-cosmetic edits to the article are by "Lord Cam" himself, and he's never so much as touched an article on anything other than his own bio. -Colin Kimbrell 12:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I understand your concern - but it's mirrored by a concern that we lack articles in this area, and stubs are better than nothing. Lord Cam the calypsonian is verifiable. There is almost certainly an element of vanity in the creation (over a year ago). While it might well have a hard time meeting the burden of "notability" in comparison with American (or even Trinidadian) musicians, so would anything from Nevis. But, tiny as Nevis is, it is a major component of St Kitts & Nevis, with a strong independence movement. You need to look at the person in perspective. Many Caribbean or Pacific heads of state would fail the google test. But that does not make them undeserving of an article. Guettarda 17:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I remain unconvinced that more notable Caribbean or Pacific personalities would fail the Google test (as with my "Dis N Dat" example below). If people feel otherwise, I'll of course agree to abide by the consensus, but at a minimum we need to take out the unverifiable and NPOV allegation that he was "robbed" of the championship. -Colin Kimbrell 18:00, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I absolutely agree that "robbed" is POV (hmm, if we were sure he wrote the article, we could say "he claimed he was robbed" - it's a common claim in calypso contests, and probably true at leats some of the time) - Guettarda 18:46, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Strong Keep - Significant calypsonians are unlikely to be well documented online - they are often not recorded at all. [1] lists him in first place in the semi-finals of Nevis calypso competition in 2001. That makes him nationally significant in St Kitts and Nevis. We should not enhance the systemic bias in Wikipedia by depending on a google test in cases like this. Guettarda 04:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, nationally significant, albeit in a small nation. Kappa 04:28, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, per Guettarda. from an underrepresented area of the world on Wikipedia. --Kewp (t) 05:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment: Note that his position in Guettarda's link 1 does not indicate that was first in the semi-finals of that competition. Rather, it merely indicates that he was eliminated in the semi-final round of that competition, and as such, finished no higher than a tie for ninth. The next year, he finished fifth in this competition...out of six entrants in his class, and those are the only two significant mentions of his name on the entire web, after you screen out wiki mirrors. I'm sure that there are significant calpysonians from Nevis; I just don't see any evidence that Lord Cam is one of them. Compare the results for his name with those of another Nevisian, Dis N Dat (the current Culturama king). Despite the same "small country" handicaps as Lord Cam, there are mentions of him winning past competitions, performing other gigs, and even serving as president of the Nevis Cricket Association. There are two major regional newspapers giving coverage to other local calypsonians, and I just have to think that if Lord Cam were significant, he'd be mentioned there as well. Even if he weren't, I'd still look to give him the benefit of the doubt if anyone other than a user with the same name as him had made substantive additions to the text, but nobody has. -Colin Kimbrell 12:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying, but as this area is hugely underrepresented on Wikipedia, I don't see the harm of keeping it. As to the main contributer's username, it may be that the contributer is "Lord Cam," but it also could be that the user just signed up for a one time edit and couldn't think of any other name. Either way, though, we can't be sure. Less than 100 articles on Wikipedia mention or are related to Nevis [2], and I think that this article, albeit in a small way, may help improve people's understanding of Nevis' culture. Perhaps in the future when there are thousands of articles about Nevis, this article may prove to be not so noteable but I think we should keep it for the time being.--Kewp (t) 18:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep per Guettarda. Perodicticus 12:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as per Guettarda--Vivenot 13:02, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Yes, the nation in question is underrepresented on Wikipedia. Yes, that's a bad thing. No, that doesn't mean we should start accepting articles on every little non-notable thing just to counter systemic bias. If this article was on a Canadian, British, American, or French subject it would be deleted easily. Treating underrepresented countries like their subjects are "special" is a bad thing. Lord Bob 19:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
• Verify and keep if someone more familiar with calypso can confirm subject's notability. - Sensor 02:00, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.