Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2005 August 17

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] MSPROJECT 2003

This article is currently listed for translation-cleanup at WP:PNT, but comments there and on the talk page suggest that VfD is a better place for it. I vote delete as unencyclopedic advertising. Physchim62 00:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Transfer from Wikipedia:Pages needing translation into English:

Portuguese. Appears to be junk, although I can't be sure. Sarge Baldy 16:12, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

• Not junk as such, at least not nonsense in the WP sense, but worryingly commercial. Appears to promote this book: relevant material should be merged with project management. Physchim62 18:13, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
• He is promoting his webiste. And I call it junk: there's little relevant material that can be properly merged with project management, since this article mostly describes a specific, Brazil-centric methodology of project management, not suitable for merging with a broad encyclopedic entry such as project management. Finally, he's intentionally trying to mislead users by using a trademark. zanderredux 13:32, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Article seems to have nothing to do with Microsoft Project. Pburka 00:07, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete -- non-encyclopedic and not likely to be ever. DavidH 05:21, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete -- Este artigo não é importante. This article is not important. D. J. Bracey (talk) 15:40, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to Microsoft Project. --Howcheng 16:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy deleted. -Blu Aardvark | ^{(talk) | (contribs)} 06:38, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Berticus

Vandalism. Not relavant HF 21:53, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 00:37, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy? - Hahnchen 01:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy deletion It is being changed constantly and each new version is more offensive and pointless then the last Tekana 21:26, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 00:43, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Di$h and ShiQuana

• Delete. The "band" has 4 hits on Google [1] and only 1 hit when parenthesis are used. [2] On top of that, the one hit is a MySpace website. [3] The article also includes a the header "Di$h and ShiQuana are "the most famous bitches you eva met". -- MacAddct1984 21:16, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Vanity and advert, attempting to use Wikipedia to bolster the band's notibility. Func( t, c, e,  ) 23:33, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
• Do Not Delete. It is, after all, a real band. The information in the Wikipedia article are all factual, nor do they advertise any product, nor is the article spam. Also, the "offensive" part of the "offensive" header is in quotation marks. – (Unsigned comment by 149.77.22.107, the article's creator. User's 11th edit.)
• Delete if I understand correctly, a non-notable band falls under the new criteria for CSD. — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 00:37, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately, the CSD for band vanity did not gain consensus. Only articles about singular people that do not assert notability may be speedied, if the criterion is followed strictly. android79 01:01, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Vanity, NN and not Encyclopedia worthy.... and Wikipedia is not a crystal ball — Digital Thief 00:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Seems interesting and relevant. Voyager640 00:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. No evidence of meeting any of the inclusion criteria for bands. No allmusic.com entry. android79 01:01, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • See also Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Synth-hop. android79 21:58, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - Band vanity rubbishness. - Hahnchen 01:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per android. Fernando Rizo T/C 01:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Jaxl | talk 01:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Further google searching finds 8 more hits on Google. A relatively-unknown but legitimate band with a sizable following, and all of their links and claims are valid. — (Unsigned comment by 24.215.250.37; user's 3rd edit.)
  • Please see WP:MUSIC. android79 03:28, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - NN, doesn't meet WP:MUSIC Criteria --Camw 03:49, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delte Non-notable band with a very small following. Uses the phrase "dope-assss rhymez" seriously in an article. GregAsche 04:02, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Sock-supported band vanity. --Idont Havaname 06:23, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete for reasons stated. I looked at their page...it's nothing more than a picture. Begone, socks! - Lucky 6.9 06:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete for band vanity, unverifiable claims. --Several Times 13:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• KEEP They are found in compilation cds and have a large college following. — (Unsigned comment by 38.117.172.162; user's 2nd edit.)
• Delete. Clear vanity page. Dottore So 17:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. There is satisfactory evidence of the identity of the band "Di$h and ShiQuana." Evidence is found in articles written about this band, as well as the band's history of concerts and cds. Thus acknowledgment of the band Di$h and ShiQuana should be taken. – (Duplicate vote by 38.117.172.162.)
• Delete, vanity. [[User:Premeditated Chaos|User:Premeditated Chaos/Sig]] 21:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete due to failure to meet WP:Music popularity with sockpuppets. Capitalistroadster 00:47, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Sock puppets where it hurts them most. Alf 14:34, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I'm pretty sure that Di$h and ShiQuana are not "the most famous bitches you eva met". Parallel or Together? 04:36, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:10, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Duchess of URL (domain names) in Geneva, New York

• Delete: advertising, vanity page --IByte 00:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: NN, advertising, vanity, and the poster has already removed the Vfd notice once Digital Thief 01:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• delete. Would this make her husband the Duke of URL (which needs cleanup, BTW)? humblefool®^{Deletion Reform} 02:24, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Spam. Delete unless rewritten. - Mike Rosoft 13:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. --Craigkbryant 21:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, vanity. [[User:Premeditated Chaos|User:Premeditated Chaos/Sig]] 21:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Duke Duke Duke-a-delete. Gazpacho 01:59, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:11, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Myth mission

Vanity page. Andrew pmk 00:28, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Half way between vanity and advertising. nn group. What is paranormal clothing anyway? ManoaChild 01:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per ManoaChild. What is paranormal clothing? Fernando Rizo T/C 01:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Jaxl | talk 01:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above. GregAsche 04:04, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above- I'm really worried about those paranormal thongs. --Several Times 13:43, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Both vanity and advertising --Outlander 21:17, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. (The second one will be recreated as a redirect to Traveler's diarrhea.) Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:12, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Prevention of Travelers Diarrhea and Travelers Diarrhea

Advertisment for diarrhea medicine Nelgallan 00:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Poorly titled advert. Flowerparty ^talk 00:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• 'Delete ad. Ken ^{talk|contribs} 00:55, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Advertising. ManoaChild 01:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• I don't understand, is this diarrhea you get while you're abroad, or is this when you find travelers in your diarrhea? Delete as per above. JDoorjam 01:34, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete the first, and redirect the second to Traveler's diarrhea. Pburka 02:42, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete and don't forget to flush! Hamster Sandwich 02:44, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per Pburka. --Apyule 03:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Flush the first spamvert straight down to Wiki-Hell; redirect the second per Pburka. -- BD2412 ^talk 04:50, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete -- avertising and non-encyclopedic. DavidH 05:23, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete first and redirect section per Pburka. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:50, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete This joke is not funny. D. J. Bracey (talk) 15:35, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:42, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] SudokuMeister

Was tagged as speedy as advertising, but there's no CSD. No vote. Dmcdevit·t 07:29, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

Oh come on, chaps! Relisting for another five days. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 00:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete it's just a random game that gets about 170 Googles. -Splash 23:38, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge into Sudoku as as external link, perhaps. --Howcheng 16:20, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete not notable. - brenneman^(t)(c) 01:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete advertising. Jaxl | talk 02:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, microsoft software is notable. Kappa 07:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC) Oops I misread the article. Kappa 15:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Pretty obvious delete. I agree that Microsoft software (as in, software produced by Microsoft), is notable - but not every piece of software produced by anybody that happens to run in Windows is. OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 09:06, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, but put an external link for it on Sudoku. Proto t c 09:57, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete advertising, will not add useful information to Sudoku. Sliggy 11:04, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, ad. Radiant_>|< 15:11, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete badvertisement. Alf 14:37, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete annoying advertising. --angusj 04:52, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: insufficient notability. Zotmeister 19:12, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Keep (does not include irrelevant sockpuppet support). Fernando Rizo T/C 19:43, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] YTCracker

Seems to be a vanity page of a mostly non-notable person. Schnee (cheeks clone) 01:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Exceedingly weak Strong Keep pending verification of some of the facts in the article. If he's a prominent representative of the "nerdcore" music style (yes, it does exist) then I'd say he meets WP:MUSIC #6. Also, the performance alongside major rap artists and the writing credit, if true, would further show some notability. android79 01:21, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • The evidence detailed on the talk page is impressive, and I have changed my vote accordingly. android79 23:40, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Seems to be genuine, and if it is it meets WP:MUSIC. They only things I can't verify are the links between hacking NASA, the music and the porn. --Apyule 03:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep As much as this looks like vanity, the name has 25,700 google hits, the top set of which at least superficially support the story. If that's not a keep, I don't know what is. I don't know how much editing the thing needs, but this guy is definitely a live one. A. J. Luxton 08:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep ytc is the og. he really did/does all that stuff
• Keep If you doubt the claims about YTCracker you better ps ax about him.
• Keep I have spent 2 weeks cross referencing everything that is on wikipedia about Ytcracker and with articles across the net. This is definetly legitimate.
• Keep budz says YT is the OG DG, ya better ask somebody.
• Keep I've known Bryce Case Jr. (A.K.A. YTCracker) for about 5 years now. I can honestly say a large majority of this information is factual and true. YTCracker is the pioneer of Nerdcore rap, i remeber hearing one of his first AOL rap songs about 4 years ago, whoever came after him is just jumping on the nerdcore groupie train. I agree with A J Luxton's post above 20,000 + hits on google for "ytcracker" says it all. I don't know how much more proof you guys need. - Joe, New York, NY(jpm@jpmventuregroup.com)
• Weak keep and cleanup per the first three votes, and despite the anonymous votes following it. Remove the download external link; self-promotion. Barno 14:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• I suppose I really cannot vote on my own behalf, nor did I write this article, however whatever "proof" that you would require for legitimization of the facts in this article can easily be provided. YTCracker
  • Certainly you can vote; but the admin closing this VfD is likely to give less weight to your vote since you're the topic. I would recommend that, while the VfD is in progress, you add links to the article's talk page which verify the activities, such as mainstream media coverage. Other editors can review them and add material they find appropriate. Anonymous "he is the OG DG, ya better ask somebody" votes are far less likely to persuade other editors. Barno 18:51, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • OK - I have created a mutilated talk page for the VfD with various links to articles and photo/video evidence. Most of the respective proof can be independently Googled if you were bored enough. --Ytcracker 23:32, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedied by Curps as an article with no content. android79 02:17, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of IMAX cinemas where there are trees near the back door

I would have to work very hard to come up with a less useful list than this, I suspect. Delete. Ken ^{talk|contribs} 01:22, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• LOL: I know this is closed, but mea culpa! I suggested this, in jest, here. The things people do! -Splash 02:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:43, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Max_Hades

Delete this article on a non-notable webcomic -- it is clearly vanity. The writer of the article has a first-hand knowledge of the comic creator's inner thoughts: "Max Hades is intended..." "the creator enjoys ..." etc. Alexa has no data on this comic. Dragonfiend 01:41, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete -- non notable, advertising, article serves as weblink. DavidH 05:26, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete -- Non notable, vanity. HopperUK 14:46:33, 2005-08-17 (UTC)
• Delete -- Same reasons as above. Tedzsee

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:49, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jack_Nada

• Delete this article on a non-notable webcomic -- it is clearly vanity similar to Max Hades. The writer of the article has a first-hand knowledge of the comic creator's inner thoughts: "the creators would like to see ..." etc. Alexa has no data on this comic. Dragonfiend 01:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete ditto. Tedzsee

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:20, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gurney Plaza

Appears to be nothing more than an advertisement. —Simon 01:57, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete advertisement. Hamster Sandwich 02:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete ad. DomRem | Yeah? 03:01, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - non-notable and an advertisement. Rob Church ^{Talk | Desk} 04:11, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete spam! __earth 05:20, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Woohookitty 10:33, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Monica Storrs

Seems to be nice enough of a lady, but is sadly non-notable. humblefool®^{Deletion Reform} 02:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Monica Stores was one of the founders of British Columbia and a feminist icon in these parts.

She is honoured in the museums there, has several books written about her, her diaries published, two documentaries made about her life in Canada and one by the BBC. Pretty notable I would say!<preceeding is an unsigned comment by User:80.229.218.245> Fernando Rizo T/C 02:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. For once, I'm going to have to disgree with you, HF. She only draws 647 Google hits, but this may be more due to the fact that she is a woman from the 19th century than any lack of notability. The article needs a cleanup in a big way, but it cites two scholarly books about her, including one published by the U. of Toronto, which has one of the finest history departments in North America. Fernando Rizo T/C 02:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

The one time I vote 'keep' it turns out to be a copyvio. Sheesh. :) Fernando Rizo T/C 04:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep, She seems to be notable from the article.Gateman1997 02:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Hrm, my deletionism must be showing. humblefool®^{Deletion Reform} 02:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as copyvio of this [4]. I will report it myself.Capitalistroadster 03:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep if the copyvio issue is resolved, she seems obscure, yet noteable. GregAsche 04:09, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep if the article can be re-written. She seems to be a local hero and historical figure. Noteable enough for a "non-paper" encyclopedia --Outlander 21:28, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Not CR Violation Permission Sought from FSJ site... and (yawn) new version of brief life of this most notable person posted to silence ocker critics.

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The result of the debate was delete. I will not be sending this off to BJAODN. Probably I am tough to humor, but I don't know what's so funny about "The Blinding is a not well known Christian rock band.". Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:23, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The blinding

Doesn't fulfill any of the WP:MUSIC criteria. --fvw* 02:18, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy delete - Explicit claim to non-notability. -Harmil 02:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy. That opening sentence is worth a BJAODN listing, IMO. - Lucky 6.9 02:24, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete NN banditry. Hamster Sandwich 02:37, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Fails WP:MUSIC. --Durin 02:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Worthless NN, but I second the BJAODN, the opening sentence is funny Digital Thief 08:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, nn substub. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:52, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, nn, found only about 2 pages on Google referring to the band.—Tokek 16:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - first time I ever saw a page that actually admitted to being nn right in the text. --Outlander 21:32, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:24, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Farther Common

Individual fields and forests are not notable. humblefool®^{Deletion Reform} 02:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep But it is the people that lived in this region of East Hampshire that were notable. It is also a proper noun, listed as a location in the Times Atlas of the UK. (Unsigned comment by 80.229.218.245 (talk • contribs))
• Keep, notable. Kappa 07:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, notable place in history and people associated with location.Alf 13:43, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Week keep, though the article may be a copyvio[5]. Besides, all Google hits refer only to that site (which can be found via [6]). --Jūzeris | Talk 17:27, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Not CR Violation. Used with permission, Google hits more extensive than indicated. Local authority, and gov sites
• Keep Secretlondon 04:05, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ms. Muse

Doesn't pass WP:MUSIC. --fvw* 02:36, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Delete sounds like somebodys music teacher. Jobe6 03:36, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete The things some people think belong in an encyclopedia. The mind boggles. --DavidConrad 04:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Paul 23:30, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete —Tokek 04:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Transwiki to my wiki if you please, thanks. Wikinerd 07:17, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no consensus. Fernando Rizo T/C 19:56, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Digital Bits

Delete — just a nn website that sells DVDs. The name is no good for a Google, but the site's Alexa rank is about 13,000th. -Splash 02:43, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete advertising. --Howcheng 16:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Notable website that is often cited by news webpages as well as entertainment sites such as TrekNation and TVShowsOnDVD. Needs to be rewritten, however, to remove the advertising content. 23skidoo 03:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Rewrite & Keep, notable website, but a poorly written article. K1Bond007 20:59, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Not sure if its a consensus to keep or not, but that doesn't matter. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:26, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Picofirewall

This program seems relatively obscure. Googling "picofirewall -wikipedia" generates about 80 hits. Compare to iptables (over 1 million hits) or shorewall (200,000). Joel7687 02:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep it may not be as big as it's competitors, but it seems noteworthy. GregAsche 04:11, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete -- advert for a product, unless someone shows it's notable. DavidH 05:29, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and expand, I've tried getting iptables to work on Linux machines - nightmare - there are few 'easy' Linux firewalls, never used this one, but find the information useful. Alf 13:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep doesn't harm WP to keep this. Klonimus 17:27, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete under CSD criterion A7 (admitted non-notability). - Mgm|^(talk) 09:55, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thomas Feron

Delete: Vanity about a non-notable student. x42bn6 02:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete "He'll be famous in some years" -- not only does not claim notability, admits non-notability. Plus, he won't be, either. --DavidConrad 03:49, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• del--Irpen

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The result of the debate was keep. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] John Hockenberry

Delete maybe. I bring this here for assistance, fully aware that VFD:NOT cleanup. This guy is evidently the author of a blog which is a good indicator of non-notableness. But the blog gets lots of Googles; again not too special. But is there something special about The Blogs of War? -Splash 02:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't usually do this, but I'll say this VfD is redundant; I didn't do my research properly and got distracted by the word "blog". This is a keep, obviously. -Splash 03:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• I'd have speedied it, whether or not he's notable this isn't an article. --fvw* 02:57, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • Nice rescue, keep. --fvw* 03:25, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep the current version of the article. Pburka 03:20, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • Ah, that would have been the first Google hit, wouldn't it? Ahem. I forgot to look for the name of the person, so sure was I that the blog was all he'd be known for. Apologies. -Splash 03:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Yep, we have to be careful about our visceral reactions to buzz words and allow time for editors to make a page useful Keep --Mddake 03:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as notable journalist. Capitalistroadster 04:23, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• keep -- well-known journalist. DavidH 05:32, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Keep. Way notable, major U.S. broadcast and print media figure. MCB 07:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep --Craigkbryant 21:24, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Why would you delete an article about a major media figure, who happened to have won numerous press awards?

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The result of the debate was keep. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:29, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Petter Olsen

Vandalism; is this article even necessary? Amyrlin 03:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Comment I am not sure if the article itself is necessary. I assume that being listed here will resolve that question as anyone with something to contribute may happen by and fix it up. But editors should remove the vandalism found on a page on sight rather than simply slapping a VfD tag on them. I have removed the offending words and will await the opinions of others as to the article. --Mddake 03:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Weak keep. It looks like an interesting article could be written about Petter Olsen. [7], [8], [9]. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure that these all refer to the same person. I think one may be the grandfather of the other. The grandfather certainly seems notable, the grandson less so. Pburka 03:51, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Comment If he's rich enough to own The Scream then he may be notable enough to be worthy of an article. Someone needs to do the work. But if the article doesn't get fixed up, go ahead and delete -- someone can always create the article later, eh? --DavidConrad 03:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. Notable member of a Norwegian shipping billionaire family. Uppland 09:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep the rewrite. Notable person, verifiable information. Sam Vimes 15:13, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Verifiably notable billionaire. Hall Monitor 17:30, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Important in Norway. Osomec 23:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep, but add a {{cleanup}}-tag. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:29, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Reality Check NY

A lot of claims, but no sources. Googling suggests they're not all that notable. --fvw* 03:24, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Keep They are fairly noteable, however mostly through out New York state. Yokie rc 03:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment the article needs work, at the least. --DavidConrad 04:06, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment serious NPOV issues (it's a boosterish article). MCB 07:11, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and cleanup. Zoe 07:19, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and cleanup this is actually a fairly well known group in New York, they run some very inventive anti-smoking campaigns. nonprofit. --Outlander 21:44, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy deleted by MacGyverMagic as patent nonsense. --Blu Aardvark | ^{(talk) | (contribs)} 06:43, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kris Offill

Hoax, joke...nonsense really Rx StrangeLove 03:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete --fvw* 03:28, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Not even a good joke.  RasputinAXP  talk * contribs 03:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete as it's not really even worthy of a VfD (no harm in being cautious, though, but this is nonsense). --DavidConrad 03:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete -- non-sense and non-notable. DavidH 05:34, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy deleted by Shanes as nn/vanity. --Blu Aardvark | ^{(talk) | (contribs)} 06:46, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jonathan Anderson

Non notable, possibly vanity it seems. Brings up no relevant hits on google. Jobe6 03:31, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy delete. Nonsense.  RasputinAXP  talk * contribs 03:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Deleety OK, I know I'm saying speedy to everything lately, but really, this is ridiculous. People can't create articles with no claim of notability expecting others to Google the research. Based on what's in the article ("not-yet-a-hit") this guy is non-notable. --DavidConrad 03:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete, substub, admitted song is not a hit. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:58, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Vanity. Delete, candidate for speedy deletion. - Mike Rosoft 13:07, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete for making the girls cry, shameful. NN. Alf 13:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Keep. Fernando Rizo T/C 20:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Android Lust

It appears that someone put a good deal of effort into this article, but the band (or, the one individual) apparently has only been in existence for a few years and has appeared only on indie labels. It seems like a vanity article and the notability doesn't seem to be on a level with the WP:MUSIC guidelines. DavidConrad 03:34, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. Multiple albums on Tinman and Projekt, video play on MTV. Verifiable on allmusic.com Pburka 03:57, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Man, this one is getting me all excited. Keep per Pburka. android79 04:01, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• (chuckles at above line) Keep although it's not rock solid notable, I like the article. Alf 13:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per Pburka Sam Vimes 15:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep! What are they crazy? This music is great. They have a real video. You can even buy their music on Itunes.

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Too Far North

No evidence of notability. No allmusic.com entry, no relevant google hits, no albums for sale on any online stores I could find. Gamaliel 04:10, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete unless notability is established. See also The Only Thing I Won't Give You Is The Antidote. Punkmorten 06:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Session deville

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. --Cyberjunkie | Talk 12:22, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Not notable. --fvw* 04:13, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Fails Google and Allmusic tests. --Madchester 04:13, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete one song on one compilation is a stretch for the music guidelines.--nixie 04:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete--Cyberjunkie | Talk 12:22, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete NN/Vanity --Scott Davis ^Talk 14:27, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] BakersfieldDDR

Non-notable, probably vanity. Coffee 04:28, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Vanity, nn. --DrTorstenHenning 07:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:03, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DFDI

Vanity. --fvw* 04:43, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• delete as above. Manik Raina 08:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Vanity. I wish it was a speedy delete Digital Thief 10:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete vanity. --Mairi 21:57, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete vanity; may actually be a speedy after all. Page's original author has twice almost-blanked the page; once to "girl singing group" and once to "DELETE THIS PAGE!!!!" Reverted both times. Bearcat 08:38, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, non-notable. -- Spinboy 21:31, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy deleted --cesarb 01:49, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Donovan Pfeifer

Does this constitute a claim-to-faim and therefor exempt it from WP:CSD? I don't know, you lot decide. --fvw* 04:49, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy--nixie 05:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete probably A7 speedy. "Marketing trident" is a neologism receiving 83 results from a Google search mainly relating to marketing for companies with Trident in their name see [10] A uni student who apparently invents a neologism is not notable in my book. Capitalistroadster 05:41, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Capitalistr, I like to call them "neocoiners". I am working on six separate articles to document my coinage. Sdedeo 18:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete. Just being a student that coined a neologism doesn't make one famous. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:02, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete NN Digital Thief 10:40, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:19, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Anime Alberta

Not notable. Alexa ranking of 3,778,243. Wikipedia isn't a web directory. Coffee 04:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Works for me, Delete. --fvw* 04:54, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Coffee. (That reminds me, I need a drink.) - Mgm|^(talk) 10:03, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Transwiki to my wiki if you please, thanks. Wikinerd 07:19, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep A little bias, but that is where I stand. Anime Alberta has a history for bringing people in that province together, and I believe that people should know about the history of the site and the people that run it.--Jasohill 08:22, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete non-notable Farquard 19:44, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, non-notable. -- Spinboy 21:32, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:21, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of African Americans

Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Brownman40 04:44, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Notable concept, notable figures, fits in with the other lists, can be broken up if it gets too big. CanadianCaesar 05:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. We have lists of other kinds of Americans arranged by nationality/race. This list is general, and is probably quite useful to many readers. --Idont Havaname 06:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Strong keep. Useful information. Zoe 06:43, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, wikipedia is a discrimate collection of information. Kappa 06:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Strong Keep. This is a list of notable African Americans only. As discussed on the talk page, the reason why the page just says "List of African Americans" is because anyone with a Wikipedia article is supposed to be notable. --FuriousFreddy 11:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Strong Keep. Now, Get on the Bus. Project2501a 12:41, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Question for those who want to keep Unlike a list of African Americans in the US Congress, this list can never be complete, and thus accurate. Based on the actual definition of the title, this list is supposed to contain every African American. How do you reconcile this fact? Brownman40 15:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Something else that can never be complete: Wikipedia. --DavidConrad 03:48, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Alternate suggestion What about a more appropriate title (such as List of African-Americans in Wikipedia) and a redirect? Brownman40 15:30, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment. I find these lists ridiculous, but note that we have lists for just about every ethnic and religious group on the planet. Sdedeo 15:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. A group this large is best maintained using categories, not lists. Hall Monitor 18:33, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment. If you do it to one, you have to do it to all the others. Every item on the List of Americans page should be deleted if this one ends up going. What if we shaved the list to bare essentials, titled it List of notable African Americans, and only included the people you'd find in good textbook on Black history instead of leaving it open for every black person with a Wikipedia article? I'd also suggest organizing said list by categories (politicians, entertainers, etc.)--FuriousFreddy 19:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • What you are proposing is inherently problematic. What you will end up with is various editors warring over what is notable enough and what is not. Are there any real advantages of making this a list rather than using existing categories? The only thing that comes to mind is the ability to add a red linked name, but a solution to that already exists at Wikipedia:Requested articles. Hall Monitor 19:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete We shouldn't divide people up by race. Would the people who are voting keep support a list of white Americans? Osomec 23:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • If they become a minority. Kappa 23:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, oh and Whites are a minority in Texas and California.Gateman1997 00:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Well there you go, someone should start a List of white Texans Kappa 01:06, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep a list useful for Black History month and for looking at how comprehensive Wikipedia is. Capitalistroadster 00:58, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep I was going to point out that it should be [[Category:African Americans]] and then the wiki software would keep the list up to date automatically as long as the articles were properly categorized, but I see that there is already such a category, and this list does something the category does not, viz. give a brief description of each. I think this is worthwhile. --DavidConrad 03:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Exactly what Brownman40 said above. There is no way to possibly list every African-American person that has an article in this list. It would be way too long, and it obviously cannot list them all. Should there be a White person list too then? This article is not needed. (Notorious4life 06:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC))
  • Given that Wikipedia is not paper, if it gets too big, what exactly would be stopping us from breaking this up into List of African American politicians, List of African American actors, List of African American musicians, and/or List of African American civil rights leaders? I am surprised anyone would vote to delete this. CanadianCaesar 22:09, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Please note that I am not against the creation of a more manageable and narrowly defined list, such as List of African American politicians or actors, but the scope of this particular list is too broad to be useful, in my opinion. Hall Monitor 22:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
      • Blow it up now and everyone will have to start from scratch. That's not helping in building a better encyclopedia, that's a needless step backward. CanadianCaesar 23:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, useful information. - ulayiti (talk) 19:34, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
• 2nd comment. I'm watching the discussion over at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/List of Jews. In all fairness, if one is kept, then so should the other, and if one is deleted, then so should the other. Again, I say rename it List of notable African Americans and only retain links for persons who do or should have their own articles here. --FuriousFreddy 21:10, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
• Break Apart Think the list should exist . . . but it's just not right to see Aaliyah and Ralph Abernathy on the same section of the same list, let alone to have Aaliyah topping it. Like many suggestions I've seen on the page, break up by why they are notable figures. A name can appear on two lists if they are notable for separate reasons. Breaking up lists makes the reference more worthwhile for the reader, and prevents Trolling.

—  <TALKJNDRLINETALK>     23:27, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedians for Decency

Due to the massive size of this VFD, I have decided to link it instead of transclude it. --Blu Aardvark | ^{(talk) | (contribs)} 15:50, 22 August 2005 (UTC) Place your vote here

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Lcwb

Non notable students' joke CanadianCaesar 05:17, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete -- non-encyclopedic vanity, although the phenomenon might deserve an article, not under this title or as a yearbook photo. DavidH 05:46, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Agreeing with DavidH. Not in current form. — Linnwood 06:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] BOT2K3

Bot vanity. --fvw* 05:20, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, botcruft. — JIP | Talk 09:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, Bot Rubbish, Vanity... Not notable enough to be encyclopedically worthy Digital Thief 10:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, What kind of rubbish is this? kioku 9:10, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Graham Wilkinson

Independent election candidate in Cambridge, UK who got 60 votes. Delete. Punkmorten 05:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Strong Delete No valid status as an entry in a encyclopeida. Few votes, not known outside region, not a notable person, does not represent an area in elected parliament or council. Does not satisfy any resonable grounds for entry. dok 14:04, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable. Graham can come back after the next election if he's gained some notability by beating David Howarth, the current MP Tonywalton 11:19, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as unsuccessful candidate with no other apparent claim to notability. Capitalistroadster 01:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Secretlondon 04:07, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, he's a real person. If you delete it, please Transwiki to my wiki. thanks. Wikinerd 07:20, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Comment I'm a real person. Doesn't make me notable in WP terms, though Tonywalton |Talk

• Redirect to Cambridge and add small summary of candidate (if there is no consensus to redirect, delete) -- Joolz 09:47, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete failed candidates unless something else makes them notable. — Trilobite (Talk) 14:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Ted Lacey

Likely hoax. "Stephen Whelan Prize" gets zero Google hits. -- Curps 06:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• don't care but not hoax; http://web.princeton.edu/sites/jmadison/about/awards.htm

Ah, I should have googled "Stephen Whelan" + "prize" instead of one big phrase. Well, he's a student at Harvard Law School who's won an academic prize... well done and a very promising future... but is he truly a notable legal scholar? The title of his prize-winning work doesn't seem to get any Google hits. -- Curps 07:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. I see no evidence for the vainglorious assertion that he is "considered by some to be an important and potentially influential critic of Supreme Court jurisprudence". Sharing a prize for an undergraduate thesis doesn't make you notable of itself. Overall: vanity, non-notability. Sliggy 11:29, August 17, 2005 (UTC) (corrected minor error in vote Sliggy 11:30, August 17, 2005 (UTC))
• Delete...is considered by some to be non notable, as yet. Alf 14:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, extreme vanity. Sdedeo 15:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep somewhat noteworthy article he also wrote hit on yahoo: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/helvidius/archives/2004_lacey.pdf

luddy 17:23, 17 August 2005 (UTC) -- Duplicate vote by 67.82.186.242 (talk • contribs), who is the original author of Ted Lacey

• That there's some strong vanity. Delete.  RasputinAXP  talk * contribs 19:33, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Two undergraduate awards add notability to a person but are not enough to establish notability. Other claims of notability appear to be unsupported. ManoaChild 20:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete the guy isn't out of Law School yet, let him actually DO something before he finds his way into an encyclopedia. --Outlander 22:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Tuxedo(Band)

Classic example of semi-literate band vanity that garners an impressive zero Google hits. - Lucky 6.9 06:28, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:MUSIC — Linnwood 06:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Concur. MCB 06:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. NN vanity, quoting the page : "as it began it's steady climb to fame." - keep climbing Digital Thief 08:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, band vanity. — JIP | Talk 09:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete being vanity and roughly as encyclopedic as a classified ad for a litter of kittens (January? WHAT January?), I think this counts. A. J. Luxton 09:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete NN. Is that a litter of Tuxedo kittys? Alf 14:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Awww. Woojums! A. J. Luxton 06:58, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Sydvetlish

Delete - This appears to be a constructed language created by a 13 years old. Only two ghits, both to the language's homepage. All internal links there are dead, so that there is no proof whatsoever that the language actually exists. Whichever criteria we choose to decide whether a conlang warrants an entry or not, this one is certainly not going to make it. IJzeren Jan 06:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Weak delete : This page has little content. Manik Raina 08:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Strong delete, this page has sub-stub levels of content about what is apparently an abandoned conlang. Average Earthman 12:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete under WP:CSD A1/A3/vanity/spam/verifiability/original research/should I continue? --IByte 14:05, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above, specifically vanity. --Several Times 14:35, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete per above: vanity, nonverifiable. --Jim Henry | Talk 15:32, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Though I would vote to keep if the link were not broken - I don't care how notable or "worthwhile" it is, if it's just a page by itself, and as mentioned elsewhere I don't think verifiability applies because it's self-defining... but it ought to *be* described, either in the article or the link, and this doesn't meet that. --Saizai 15:32, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, per IJzeren Jan. --Randy 20:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Conlangs are very rarely notable, and this article has hardly any content. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:50, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:33, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cross-Time Café

Fan-made crossover webcomic. Doesn't meet any inclusion criteria in particular. Nifboy 07:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Promotion for website. Non-notable Marskell 16:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable...though the name reminds me of Callahan's Crosstime Saloon. --Several Times 17:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. non-notable. Dragonfiend 02:51, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was already redirected which is what the nominator wanted. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:23, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Phi Delta Alpha

Wikipedia doesn't need a separate article for this particular Dartmouth fraternity, especially since we have Dartmouth College Greek organizations. I merged the text of this one into that article, so this should no longer be necessary. Seanadams 07:19, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• You could have been bold and just turned this page into a redirect to Dartmouth College Greek organizations. Speedy redirect. Proto t c 11:11, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Note that since merge and delete is an incompatible vote according to the Guide to Votes for deletion, this should be redirected to fullfill GFDL requirements. User:MacGyverMagic (too lazy to sign in). - 131.211.210.11 12:57, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Sorry I'm new and clueless... should have thought of that especially as I'd done it for another fraternity. Won't happen again. Seanadams 13:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • By the way, can any of you tell me if the Dartmouth College Greek organizations article is considered "cleaned up" after the work I've done? Or where I should go that this would be a more proper question? Sorry to be a newbie Seanadams 14:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
    • See your talk page. Proto t c 11:36, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:34, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nymphet

There is no salvagable content on this page that is not already elsewhere. The intro paragraph is "A nymphet is an adolescent young girl", and list of actors in this category is POV. Delete. brenneman^(t)(c) 07:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete : I do not see the point of this article. Is it about "numphets" ? In that case they do not even define what it is properly. This "definition" is followed by rambling and beating about the bush about borderline paedophilia. Manik Raina 08:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to Ephebophilia. Proto t c 11:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and cleanup -- it's an extremely notable term coined by Vladimir Nabokov in Lolita ...(Edit by User:Ben-w)
  • Should'nt terms be defined in wikictionary ? Manik Raina 04:34, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
    • It is indeed a notable term. And it's covered in ephebophilia. Notable terms are defined in Wiktionary, but if there is more information than just a definition of a word, they may well gain articles. Proto t c 11:38, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and cleanup -- Just because there is not a great deal of content there now does not mean people will not add more. I think we should wait before hastily destroying an article. ...(Edit John B)
  • Also the comment about the list of actors being POV - surely if they fit the definition set out then that can't be POV

• Keep common term, page serves as disambig nicely.  Grue  19:59, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep -- Clearly an important term, and more content is likely to be added. If we deleted all articles with little content then we would delete all stub articles.(Edit Mark72)
• Keep and cleanup Perhaps we could change some of the aspects of the article, but we definately should not delete it, and the description of ephebophilia is clearly different and Nymphet is not cobered by that term. -- (Dave)
• Keep though I always thought it was spelled "Nymphette". --Barista | a/k/a マイケル | T/C 07:26, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Keep We should stop arguing about whether or not to keep this, and start working together to make the article better. Its one of the key words of one of the most important works of literature from the 20th Century.(Sarah) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.210.249.56 (talk • contribs) 12:43, 22 August 2005.

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The result of the debate was something between a redirect and merge to All Grown Up!. I don't know which sentences we want merged, but I will make a redirect, leave the history in tact, and if anyone wants to merge parts of this article with the main All Grown Up! article, go ahead. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:26, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] All Grown Up fandom

Non-notable fandom, vanity. I could see make two or three sentences of this being merged into the All Grown Up article, but not much more. Zoe 08:54, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Merge and reduce, a lot of it is 'padding' and would be better sharpened up. Alf 14:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge, perhaps more than a few sentences since WP:NOT paper. - ulayiti (talk) 19:37, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Lord Sorgo

Apparently some sort of Star Wars character, but both Google and Yahoo! only come up with three hits. Zoe 09:11, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• And after further review, he appears to be some forum master, not even a real character. So this article would then be fanfic. Zoe 09:14, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Pure fantasy. Not fancruft, since not even hardcore Star Wars fans would be interested in this. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Low quality fantasy page silliness, and is definitely not SW canon Digital Thief 10:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, crrrrrrrruft. Proto t c 11:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete I haven't a clue what's going on in this article, at first I thought it may be a badly written game plot. Alf 14:32, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, looks like fanfic to me. -- Lochaber 16:23, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy deleted. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:52, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Charles hickman

Self-admitted vanity. Written by an anon IP so can't be userfied. (Speedy) Delete. — JIP | Talk 09:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete NN, Vanity, he almost begs in the article for deletion (why did he create it?) Digital Thief 10:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete. Makes no claim as to being notable. --GraemeL 11:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, maybe the user thought he was writing a user page. Alf 14:37, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete. Per WP:CSD A7. Fernando Rizo T/C 17:05, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] AlexMorganis

Found this whilst cleaning out 'dead-ends'. It is certainly vanity (created by User:AlexMorganis), I don't think he is notable enough - so sending here --Doc (?) 09:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Being an editor of multiple blogs is probably not significant enough... Is poorly written and vague Digital Thief 10:27, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• I's say 'Userfy' but it's already there. Delete Tonywalton 13:36, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete written minutes after userpage so not 'written as user page in error', at present NN. Alf 14:41, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Woohookitty 10:36, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fused

Tagged for speedy but not a candidate. It is indeed band vanity, and has in no way fulfilled any of the criteria of WP:MUSIC, so delete, but such things are not speedy deletion candidates. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:17, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Vanity foolishness, which deserves to go straight to Wiki-Hell Digital Thief 10:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, leave a redirect to either Fusion or Fuse. I don't care which. Proto t c 11:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • We could leave a disambiguation between them. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:10, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Aha, Fuse already is a good disambiguation page. Redirect there! Proto t c 11:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, sorry boys, if you make it, we'll see you here later. Alf 14:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Transwiki to my wiki if you please, thanks. Wikinerd 07:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Vanity --Hurricane111 02:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Vanity for now. Best luck for these guys to make it big! Sorry about an earlier mistag of speedy deletion. --Plastictv 02:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Still no clear consensus on this. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 23:37, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] IMeta

Tagged for speedy as "not notable", but not a candidate. The article has in fact been on VFD before. It was ages ago, so long ago that the debate is on the article's talkpage, when it was kept due to no consensus. No vote. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• I did not vote last time. Either make the article more informative or delete. Manik Raina 13:30, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• I tagged it for speedy. It's a non notable company for what I know from this article. Either it is updated to point out the notability of this company also to someone like me who doesn't know why he should care, or it should be deleted. --Raistlin 14:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• I would say keep. Even though it is a stub, its still valuble to Wikipedia. FireFox 16:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: valuable in which way ? Wikipedia is not a business directory... can you explain your pov more in detail please? --Raistlin 10:04, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete unlesss notability can be shown, above being another IT consulting company. --Icelight 17:48, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Does not appear to meet deletion criteria. Trollderella 20:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. — Trilobite (Talk) 14:13, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Stanislav

Tagged for a speedy, and I was quite tempted to grant that wish. However, there are some fantastic claims in the article which clearly assert notability, but, to put it mildly, all of them are very dubious. Eight google hits for "Stanislav Spasov", claims are most likely a hoax, delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:33, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. None of the eight Google hits on the name are relevant. Searching on KBZ-33 and Bulgaria or Mafia turns up nothing. Looks like a hoax. --GraemeL 11:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, apparent hoax. Kappa 11:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• The link on the page is to a 17 year old Californian teenager, who doesn't seem to have received that MBA from Stanford, but who can report a remarkable $100,000-$150,000 income. Delete. Sliggy 11:45, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. James Bond beware... Alf 14:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Stanislav is very common Slavic first name and could have line or two but this ...? Pavel Vozenilek 22:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedily deleted and recreated as a redirect. FCYTravis 19:42, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Denver Rocky Mountain News

Personal essay --Ryan Delaney ^talk 11:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• And borderline nonsense. Delete Tonywalton 11:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete for the reasons above. Sliggy 11:52, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete personal essay (although I see what the guy's saying), has no place here. Alf 15:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• WTF? Keep Redirect as per Sliggy. DRMN is a real newspaper. If you don't like the content, change it! VfD is not the place to complain about article quality. Sdedeo 15:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • You are, of course, right. I started to see if I could rustle up an article, but found that Rocky Mountain News already exists so redirected to that. (keep) Sliggy 16:40, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
    • Just noticed my actions above are a breach of etiquette; this article reverted to previous content. 3rd time lucky: redirect to Rocky Mountain News. Sliggy 17:01, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• keep, newspaper, article needs work. BillyCreamCorn 16:13, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to Rocky Mountain News. Nothing to merge. --Icelight 18:14, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete attempt to correspond with the newspaper, and create redirect. Gazpacho 19:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Redirect per Icelight. Speedy Delete. After thinking about my vote I realized that the article is gibberish. I think it meets criteria G1, A1 and A4 in CSD. Leaving a redirect does make sense. Vegaswikian 06:44, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete - Meets CSD criterion. Usrnme h8er 14:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] DMXControl

Not notable. Yields 726 Google hits, only has two groups, never mentioned in news media and home page has Alexa at 2.8 million. Delete. - brenneman^(t)(c) 11:05, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Tonywalton 11:57, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Snack time

Unencyclopedic. --Ryan Delaney ^talk 11:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete I actually felt my IQ drop from reading it. Allegrorondo 12:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Ryan Tonywalton 12:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. well-written nonsense, hence not speedy. --DrTorstenHenning 13:13, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment. It just be made feel snackish. Move to the funny pages. Alf 15:06, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• BJAODN. Alba 17:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• BJAODN time! As per above. --Several Times 17:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Penis, Uruguay

Joke, I can't find a single return for this city, except the page itself. No references at all that I can find. Rx StrangeLove 12:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete As per above. I could not find a hit to such a city. Manik Raina 13:11, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete. I suspect a prank. / Peter ^Isotalo 13:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: I do agree. --Bhadani 13:35, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete as a weak hoax based on a place in Austria among others . Tonywalton 13:44, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Reserved I'd like to believe it, but if there's no proof, I go 'delete'. Alf 15:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete as a hoax. Jaxl | talk 15:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep Two deletes and a forest of keeps. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 01:44, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] PornDigger!

Just don't see how this is notable. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC).

Comment. It is the first peer-to-peer file sharing application with thumbnailing. This reads at file sharing timeline. Directories were also rare, if existed at all in peer-to-peer file sharing when PornDigger! was published. --Easyas12c 19:27, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Apart from any criterion of notability (and I agree with Ta bu shi da yu), the article points to a French-language review dated 2002, which itself links to the "official site" for this thing. The site is dead. I'd guess the product is too. Delete. Tonywalton 13:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm changing that to Weak Keep since this appears to have been added as a stub from a redlink on Adware. Tonywalton 13:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Defunct. Andrew pmk 19:07, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. OK, we can delete this, IF we also delete all mentions on all other now defunct stuff. Great Library of Alexandria is also "defunct." --Easyrider1283 19:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Does not appear to meet deletion criteria. Trollderella 20:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep --Easyas12c 21:10, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:53, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Matthew Robertson

Is being married to a celebrity an indication of importance or significance? Speedy delete. --DrTorstenHenning 12:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Comment. Apparently he is/was also a presenter on (UK) Channel 4's Pet Rescue. I've added this to his page. Sliggy 13:19, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • That should be enough by the present standards. Keep. --DrTorstenHenning 14:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with Davina McCall - he doesn't have an imdb entry and we don't need an entry on everyone who's ever been a telly presenter. Dunc|☺ 14:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Note, imdb is a poor resource, much more comprehensive for the US than the rest of the world. I'd suggest you don't rely on it for borderline cases. --zippedmartin 21:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep, wikipedia should certainly aim to have entries on all major channel television presenters. Kappa 15:19, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Weak keep. I'm not thrilled with this article and the subject is only borderline notable. I tried to expand but all the google hits were about his wife and just mentioned him as her husband. Still, it's plausible that fans of Pet Rescue or Davina McCall would want to know who he is. At worst, it's harmless.--Scimitar ^parley 16:27, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Does not appear to meet deletion criteria. Trollderella 20:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Hello! cruft. --zippedmartin 21:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Being a TV presenter is enough for notability, I think. Nandesuka 23:32, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. – NSR (talk) 06:26, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sen'jin

Non-notable fancruft Naturenet | Talk 12:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Nomination withdrawn - article now improved significantly. Thanks, people. Naturenet | Talk 20:23, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Does not appear to meet deletion criteria. Trollderella 20:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Important to the Warcraft Universe storyline. Also, I improved it. Punkmorten 21:19, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep official fictional characters in a large fictional universe. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:54, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Notable character Derktar 00:32, August 19, 2005 (UTC).
• Keep as per Trollderella. But it sorely needs some references. arj 13:09, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Eugene van der Pijll 16:51, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Babydramon

A rumored character? Wikipedia is not GameFAQs. Al 13:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Sounds like fancruft to me, but you might want to ask the WikiProject Pokémon Adoption Center what they think. No vote. --IByte 13:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Except Digimon != Pokémon. --Al 14:10, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete; if it's not a hoax, then it's definitely not notable. 39 google results. No official pictures or cards. Jaxl | talk 15:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete or add to mondegreen. Tonywalton 17:06, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Fancruft. Andrew pmk 19:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I know it's not a hoax article, but this character is not notable yet (lacks data etc). Do not add to mondegreen. Punkmorten 21:24, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep I made this page to get rid of a red link on the List_of_Digimon page. If you want I can make just one page for all the rumored Digimon. CanadaGirl 22:17, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. It's a real Digimon, made official through the FAX Digimon contest in Japan. Several notable Digimon (like Cyber Dramon) have been such Digimon. There's no information on Babydramon other than his name, but if we're going to have Digimon entries, why not have all Digimon entries, even if they have to all be merged into List_of_Digimon? It feels incomplete and inconsistent to have only Digimon that are (somewhat arbitrarily) deemed notable. Every Pokémon has its own individual entry, however non-notable, and every, or nearly every Naruto character has at least a short biography on the Characters_of_Naruto page. If every ninja and Pokémon can have an entry or a section on a page, why can't every Digimon? Shining Celebi 00:49, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I agree with Shining Celebi. -- Toksyuryel ^{talk | contrib} 01:35, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. 1. Babydramon is an official Digimon as cited by Shining_Celebi. 2. Whether or not this is fancruft is highly dependant on whether one is a fan of the series and as such by putting this entry on vote, you place all individual character entries of not just television series but movies as well on trial. Whatever should happen to this entry should be applied to other individual character pages as well. 3. Whether or not this entry is fancruft is irrevelant as the purpose of Wikipedia is to be and I quote: The Free Encyclopedia and as such should be an Encyclopedia as defined by http://www.dictionary.com , "A comprehensive reference work containing articles on a wide range of subjects or on numerous aspects of a particular field, usually arranged alphabetically.". The keyword is comprehensive and this entry indeed fulfills the job of an encyclopedia entry by contributing comprehensive information on the subject (Babydramon) and its parent (Digimon). 4. This article does not merit deletion according to the Wikipedia Vote For Deletion policy page. This is not a hoax, and if deemed to be so minor as to not merit its own entry, then should be merged with an appropriate entry. Takato 01:47:34, 2005-08-18 (UTC)
• Merge or Expand. If it's real, adding the history Shining Celebi mentioned to the article would be useful (rather than just "he's rumored to exist since he was mentioned in passing in one episode"). - Matthew0028 04:35, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete or Needs Improvement. I've done a lot of work creating articles for "rumored" characters, and to make such an article work, it needs to be longer than a few sentences and backed by reasons why this character was rumored to appear while never actually appearing. For example, my articles on rumored Mortal Kombat characters Nimbus Terrafaux and Belokk contain real facts and reasons, rather than speculation. I'm not a fan of Digimon, yet I'm not going to say anything about fancruft. I just don't think the article itself is encyclopedically noteworthy unless it is expanded, merged, and/or improved. (Notorious4life 06:49, 18 August 2005 (UTC))
• Keep real Digimon. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:55, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. Redwolf24 (talk) 01:40, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jiangjun

This article was just VfD:ed under the title chiangchun and voted to be moved to this page, though without voters actually paying any attention what the VfD was actually about, which is why I'm resubmitting this again in the hope that people will try to focus on the relevant this time. The previous state of the article made a bogus claim of the word having a meaning separate from the Western concept of general and that there existed a specific knight-like warrior caste in ancient China akin to the Western knights or perhaps samurai, all of it utterly unverifiable. In the previous VfD, there were some very questionable claims that since this word can be used to designate one of the pieces in Xiangqi, Chinese chess, and since it can be used in Chinese similar to a verb meaning "checkmate", it would be enough to grant it a separate article. Verb usage or not, this is a pure dictionary definition and should be deleted. Peter ^Isotalo 13:17, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Transwiki. While the Xiangqi reference moves this beyond pure dicdef, that reference is sufficiently covered by the Xiangqi article itself; no more than a redirect is needed for this part. Scrap that part of the stub and you've got the dicdef. Lomn | Talk 14:50:02, 2005-08-17 (UTC)
• Delete. Dicdef. As for its usage in Chinese chess, Xiangqi covers more than enough. BorgQueen 00:24, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:47, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nonymous Society

Delete. original research, website spam --IByte 13:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete o.r./personal essay. Google leads to two websites, the one linked here and another one and I assume the text there was written by the same guy. --Etacar11 15:35, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete original research. And that website does indeed appear to be the same guy. He also appears to have created moral economy, Homo stupidus economicus and Socio-Economic Environment which probably also merit further attention. Morwen - Talk 15:49, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Neologism. It admits to not even being a proper Greek derivation. --Habap 17:57, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Please Keep! Technically you are right, of course, but sometimes it is appropriate to bend or even break the rules for a higher cause: if we screw the planet (which we are well on the way to doing) we screw Wikipedia and EVERYTHING else as well. This article and 3 others I created (which are also being considered for deletion) are a very serious attempt on my part to stop that happening. One doesn’t shout or disturb people in a library without good reason – a fire, for example. I have a more sensitive nose for the smell of burning than most people, which is why I’m shouting “fire!” You don’t see the danger (yet) and think that I am just a nutcase making a nuisance of myself. I hope that you will quickly come to realise that I’m not –-Roger Hicks 19 August

It's not a term that anyone but you has ever used. Search the internet. No one is using the term. Heck, not even people who would agree with you use this term. You're entitled to your ideas, whether we agree with them or not, but there is no use in having article that no one will ever search for on Wikipedia. If the term starts to be used by anyone other than yourself, re-post the article at that time. --Habap 14:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete - Neologism and POV essay -PlainSight 02:59, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. – NSR (talk) 06:20, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Atmark Techno, Inc

Minor company, WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of info. Google shows no impact beyond catalogs and support forums. This isn't an Intel or even a Xylinx. Possibly subtle ad placement, as only infobox info is name and URL. I think the VfD should include SUZAKU FPGA Boards, as it's cross-linked with this page (and no others) and appears similarly non-noteable. Not sure how to actually link that in, however -- do I just start a new VfD and reference it back to here? Anyway, delete. --Lomn | Talk 14:39:22, 2005-08-17 (UTC)

• Keep. Andrew pmk 19:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Does not appear to meet deletion criteria. Trollderella 20:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep I created this page after checking this... "Articles about companies and products are fine if they are written in an objective and unbiased style. Furthermore, all article topics must be third-party verifiable, so articles about very small "garage" companies are not likely to be acceptable." I do have to actually make a decent article though don't I. Also, did you try googling in Japanese?

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The result of the debate was no concensus. - Mailer Diablo 16:33, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Art finance

This doesn't appear to be widely used as a distinct type of finance, rather than simply art + finance. Kappa 15:10, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Article has been rewritten since my nomination. Kappa 01:45, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Agreed. Maybe a set-up to promote the Andrew Rose link which itself doesn't belong. Marskell 16:19, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with private bank
• Since the above anonymous person has rewritten the article to provide what looks like an accurate description of a real phenomenon, I will now vote merge as above or keep. Kappa 01:45, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep rewritten article. - ulayiti (talk) 19:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Madhav Desai

Non-notable IT professional PubLife 15:28, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete 3 Hits on Google UK, only one of which is probably him. Also I assume vanity. PubLife 15:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete — looks like a somewhat mangled-English résumé for a manager/consultant. Nothing that really stands out. — RJH 15:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as vanity. Reads like a resume. Hall Monitor 15:43, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete; non-notable vanity. Jaxl | talk 15:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Userfy if at all possible; otherwise delete. Vanity. -- BD2412 ^talk 21:32, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Radio Disney Jams 8

Delete: Wikipedia is Not a Crystal Ball and there's no content anyway. Karmafist 15:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete per G1 (no content) Lomn | Talk 15:33:50, 2005-08-17 (UTC)
• Speedy by G1 (not that it matters any more). - ulayiti (talk) 19:44, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no concensus. - Mailer Diablo 16:36, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] True metal

Since I added the stub notice in February, this page wasn't significantly expanded. In a Google search for "True metal" all the pages were either about music or clones of this page. I can therefore reasonably assume that someone made up the term true metal without a serious reason. If we can't make head nor tail of this page, it'd better be deleted (and True metal (music) could then be moved here). Army1987 15:37, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't see why you couldn't just blank the page, copy the contents of True metal (music) to it, and turn the (music) page into a redirect. Nothing needs to be deleted, although it would make for a messy edit history. Which I suppose you might want to avoid. --Icelight 18:20, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

I didn't think that up. However, should anybody know what the hell "true metals" are and provide more information (however, that's highly unlikely IMO), this page could survive.--Army1987 20:33, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Comment: I think you'll find that "true metals" gives more pertinent results (1850 hits, of which only a handful seem to be Wikipedia-related). However, it seems that "true metals" are simply true metals, i.e. not metalloids. If that's correct, then a) the list on this page is ridiculous, and b) this article is redundant with Metal. -- Visviva 00:16, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• In view of the above, I vote to keep but turn into a disambiguation page, with one link to True metal (music) and one to Metal. -- Visviva 00:16, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• If it is just that, IMO the page is useless. Why not make tons of pages about "true foo" and "true bar" which redirect to "foo" and "bar" because the phrase "true foo" is often used to contrast with pseudo-foo? That's nothing more than the dictionary meaning of the word true. Delete and bring True metal (music) here, adding a dablink template notice about metals (I'm going to add one myself).--Army1987 23:00, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was redirect to Marbles. – NSR (talk) 06:20, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Marble collecting

I merged this into Marbles so this page is now superfluous. --Howcheng 15:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Okey-dokey artichokey. Redirect is in place. This VFD may be closed. --Howcheng 16:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Redirect to Marbles. If others agree, I don't think there's any need to wait five days before doing this. Furthermore, since Howcheng made the nomination, I think it would be perfectly acceptable for him to make the article into a redirect now, even though that removes the VfD notice from the page. Dpbsmith (talk) 16:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Redirect SchmuckyTheCat 16:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:48, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Homo stupidus economicus

Delete. original research, POV. Also take note of the See also section --IByte 16:33, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete silly neologism. -- DS1953 16:37, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep A neologism it may be, but it is not "silly". As I (the author) explain in the article, it makes a very serious and important point. Admittedly, the idea is very new, but would ask you to let the article remain for a time to give those concerned with environmental and sustainability issues a chance to read and appreciate it. Once they have, I am sure, it will get their full support. It should also be read and understood in the context of the other articles I have recently contributed --Roger Hicks.
  • I'll strike the adjective, but my vote is still the same. DS1953 19:27, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Delete Articles are not position papers with the intent to persuade. Your entry (and entries) go beyond informing and definitely break the POV rule.--Daul21 17:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Wikipedia is not a soapbox. If your neologism has merit it must stand or fall outside Wikipedia. Alba 17:28, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Wikipedia is not the place to promote original research, obviously. --Etacar11 17:32, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Neologism. If anyone else on Spaceship Earth starts using this, the article can be re-created from Roger's website. --Habap 17:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Forthwith. Dottore So 18:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Original research. --Craigkbryant 21:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Transwiki to my wiki if you please, thanks. It's funny. Wikinerd 07:27, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete; anything actually noteworthy here should be added instead to Homo economicus, if there is anything noteworthy here. Should be Homo stultus economicus in any case: in Latin, stultus is "stupid" or "foolish", while stupidus means "stunned", "drunk", "in a stupor". Smerdis of Tlön 14:23, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Just an opinion piece! pstudier 23:47, 2005 August 18 (UTC)
• Delete It seems to be prank article.--Vonaurum 18:03, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. Woohookitty 10:41, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Warren Benbow

This is a disputed speedy. The article asserts notability, is verifiable, and is encyclopedic. The only question is whether the person in question is notable enough for an article. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 16:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• I vote Keep, but I think a merge with another article, say James Ulmer, with a redirect, would also be fine. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 16:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Andrew pmk 18:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, seems notable enough. -- DS1953 19:24, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Does not appear to meet deletion criteria. Trollderella 20:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment. Someone seems to have speedied it again. Naughty boy. Restoring in order that this deletion discussion can continue. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 20:43, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - New article is worth keeping. Old article was a valid deletion. Mr. Sidaway's war with other admins is inappropriate and against policy and the community. - Tεxτurε 20:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. I hereby utterly and completely refute any and all suggestions that I am at war with other administrators. I restored this in good faith as a bad speedy and the fact that I have successfully expanded it using as my original source the contents of the original article confirms that this speedy was at best disputable. Bad speedies can and should be corrected. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 21:06, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Are you serious? How can you refute being at war with other administrators when your comment above is "Someone seems to have speedied it again. Naughty boy." - Tεxτurε 21:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Just because someone has performed an invalid speedy, does not mean that someone who observes that fact is at war with him. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 21:24, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
      • A revert war is when two users start reverting more than once each. An admin war is when two admins begin deleting/undeleting more than once each. How many times have you undeleted it? - Tεxτurε 21:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

        1. 16:14, 17 August 2005 Tony Sidaway restored "Warren Benbow" (6 revisions restored)
        2. 16:13, 17 August 2005 Tony Sidaway deleted "Warren Benbow" (To placate geogre I will delete and then selectively undelete only the parts I worked on.)
        3. 16:03, 17 August 2005 Tony Sidaway restored "Warren Benbow"
        4. 15:47, 17 August 2005 Tony Sidaway restored "Warren Benbow"
        5. 15:46, 17 August 2005 Tony Sidaway restored "Warren Benbow"
        6. 11:48, 17 August 2005 Tony Sidaway restored "Warren Benbow"

• • • • You claim that it's war but you've only listed my actions. 11:48 I recovered a bad speedy (the article you currently see sailing through VfD). 15:46-16:03 I repeated the operation because again a rogue administrator had speedied an obvious non-speedy candidate. 16:13 and 16:14 I took action to take away the rogue's excuse for speedying. I'm not at war with geogre. At most I'm in dispute with him. His actions in the dispute are to delete, concealing a blatantly non-speediable article from editors who are not also sysops; my actions in the dispute are to restore, making the article visible, and give the editors a chance to decide. This isn't war, it isn't even a police action, it's just a man with an ego being silly enough to think he can push it so far as to repeatedly delete content from Wikipedia without any scrutiny and get away with it. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 22:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
        • I would respond that "it's just a man with an ego being silly enough to think he can push it so far as to repeatedly " UNDELETE "content from Wikipedia without any scrutiny and get away with it". Can you explain why you violated WP:3RR by undeleting six times? That's an edit war. Or do you think that such concepts only apply to non-admins? The way you think VfU is only for non-admins? - Tεxτurε 22:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
      • If you believe I have broken WP:3RR, please take steps to have me blocked for doing so. Obviously it cannot be claimed that I'm attempting to undelete without scrutiny--it was I who listed this article on VfD--where geogre should have taken it in the first place if he thought it should be deleted. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 22:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
        • I don't want you punished. I just want you to edit like a normal user. You "undeleted without scrutiny" when all you had to do was create a better article. You resorted to VfD after you realized the revert/delete war wasn't working. Why list an article that now only has what you created on VfD? To make a point. Of course a new article with real content would be kept. You nominated your own content that you wanted kept for deletion. Why? WP:POINT? - Tεxτurε 22:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
        • I think you are pushing it a bit. I undeleted only as a result of a bad speedy. I have no problem referring such restorations to VfD and indeed see no reason to do so unless there is a serious dispute--administrators on Wikipedia perform hundreds of speedies every day, performing a great job with no immediate supervision, and make one or two mistakes, and I don't see any problem with other sysops like me exercising the same scrutiny on their speedies and fixing the very few mistakes they make. If you ever have a problem with any of my resurrections, it's a doddle to spot it in my deletion log and list it on VfD. There is absolutely no reason to introduce onerous procedural obligations. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 23:33, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as per WP:Music. Capitalistroadster 21:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as per Capitalistroadster. Please note that at the time of this vote the article appears to be deleted and hopefully will be restored? Hall Monitor 21:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • So as to remove any further excuse for deletion, I have deleted and then restored *only* those versions which are indisputably unspeediable. The original versions are gone. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 21:17, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
    • The link appears to be restored, thank you Tony. Hall Monitor 21:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
    • My pleasure. I hope that we will now be left to continue building the encyclopedia. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 21:24, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, bad speedy. Kappa 23:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. The first speedy by Geogre was perfectly valid, there was no claim to notability: Warren Benbow- drummer, songwriter, music producer and educator; b. New York, NY . Born December 22, 1954. However, Tony Sidaway created a new entirely different version which was encyclopedic [11] and Geogre's second, third and fourth speedies of this new version were entirely unjustified.
  
  A clueless newbie or vandal cannot "poison" a topic by creating an unworthy article that meets the speedy criteria. A speedy delete merely says the current version fails the very low threshold for retention and wipes the slate clean. It's simply a botched article; no judgement is made on whether the topic itself is unencyclopedic or non-notable (only a VfD does that). No vote for undeletion is needed to create a new article — the slate was wiped clean and it's as if the speedied article never existed. Nevertheless, a bad faith attempt to WP:POINT by recreating the speedied article with only cosmetic changes (such as merely adding the adjective "notable") would be very dimly viewed. However, that's certainly not the case here.
  
  Tony Sidaway should have recognized that the first speedy deletion was perfectly valid, and probably should have just created his new article without restoring the old speediable stub. By restoring it, he (wrongly) implicitly criticized Geogre's action in speedying it, and Geogre perhaps reacted with indignation. However, Geogre should have realized that the new article rewritten from scratch was in no way a speedy candidate. -- Curps 03:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • If someone is described as a "drummer, songwriter, music producer and educator" this appears to me to be quite a strong assertion of notability. I accept that geogre may not see it that way (this could be seen in my original note telling him I'd undeleted). This ambiguity in CSD7 is systemic so each administrator must use his own judgement. There is no absolute here; to me it's obviously an assertion of considerable notability, to you it isn't. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 08:11, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
    • This is not at all an assertion of notability. There are many, many people who could fit that description (such as, a high school teacher who plays in a band on weekends). Wikipedia:Deletion of vanity articles suggests: For instance, if the person's profession is cited, a reasonable guideline would be how many people have the same profession: there are tens of thousands of porn models, but very few senators. Even if you dislike the relatively recent "no assertion of notability" criterion for speedy deletion, it's not a solution to simply declare nearly anything to be "asserted notable". -- Curps 08:37, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
      • I think it's pushing it a bit to say that this description could be applied to a high school teacher. Most people would expect "music producer" to mean "a person who produces recorded music" and in fact this is precisely the case here. VfD is *good* at discerning when an assertion of notability is bogus (as with your hypothetical high school teacher). Individuals on RC patrol, historically, are not so good. It is therefore inappropriate to speedy. I objected to CSD 7 for one main reason: it relies on a vague phrase, "assertion of notability" that means different things to different people. And here we have a classic case. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 13:47, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • It is categorically false to state that the article was rewritten from scratch. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 08:11, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Well here's the confusion: the anon author first created a non-speediable version (but badly formatted and indented, so that an entire paragraph was contained on one line, with most of the content invisible unless you scrolled horizontally way beyond the right edge of the browser window ("first version"). A few minutes later, the anon himself then truncated that first paragraph to one short sentence ("second version"). That second version was correctly tagged for speedy deletion and correctly speedied. I suppose it was that "first version" that you found and rescued. That "first version" was not speediable (though TenOfAllTrades reports it was a copyvio), but personally I never would never even have looked at it... when there are multiple editors, you check the history, but when there's just one editor you just look at their final revision. -- Curps 08:26, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
      • Thanks for pointing that out, but actually because of the bad formatting I would not have seen the extra text in the original even if I had looked at it (it scrolls off the right hand side of the screen). To me that looks like a copyvio of an entry I've seen elsewhere, probably allaboutjazz.com. So to reduce the confusion I want to make it absolutely plain: I considered the second, truncated version to be a good stub. It correctly identified the subject and told me absolutely everything I needed to know in order to expand the article. The problem of these bogus speedies would not exist if those doing RC patrol would use google before speedying. We are, after all, here to edit an encyclopedia, not just play with the delete button. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 13:47, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Notable musician. As for the undeletion, it is completely within process to write an all new article, and the make a history only undeletion of the old deleted versions beneath it, without a VFU debate. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:58, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, and would everybody please stop bickering? Deletion was valid. Writing a better article was valid. Undeleting the edit history was in my opinion pointless but it doesn't do any harm. Radiant_>|< 10:08, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. If "[t]he only question is whether the person in question is notable enough for an article", then it's been answered. This vfd isn't really the place to discuss the speedy deletion. The current article is unanimously valid so far. --Sketchee 17:08, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, working with Whitney Houston, LL Cool J and Olu Dara is notable enough for me.Jobe6 18:54, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. - Mailer Diablo 16:37, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spaceship Earth

Delete. original research, POV, website spam. Also take note of the Links section --IByte 16:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the rewrite is currently good enough to keep. --IByte 20:02, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

• Vandalisim, request for speedy deletion Theon 18:57, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
• Keep My original request for speedy delete was carried out last year, page has since become appropriate. the term "spaceship earth" was championed by Buckminster Fuller.Theon 16:20, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete original content and redirect to an appropriate page, perhaps Gaea hypothesis or Buckminster Fuller. The term has merit but the page has been too crufted to keep in its present form. However, it passes the Google test.Alba 17:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Vote to delete this article in its present form as well as the other three entries made by this user on the basis of POV and website spam--Daul21 17:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete As it stands now it is OR/POV. I agree the term has merit, though. Start over? --Etacar11 17:35, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep as long as it's a NPOV version. No matter how important Roger thinks his views are, they don't have a place in the article, unless recognized by relevant authorities. --Etacar11 14:19, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete original content and create disambig page for Gaia theory (science) and Spaceship Earth (Disney). - Thatdog 18:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Dottore So 18:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as suggested by Alba. --Habap 18:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Keep and Expand now that it is not so crufty. --Habap 21:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep and cleanup/disambiguate. It does have citations, even if it is POV. Gazpacho 19:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep in some form, it's not exactly new 'original research', an eager editor should be able to turn this into a good little article. --zippedmartin 21:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with author page or create a page for the book and merge it there. --Vaergoth 00:58, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep now it has been revised, though it needs further wikifying and expanding. 23skidoo 03:17, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per 23skidoo. -- DS1953 05:13, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per 23skidoo. I'll add the tags, someone needs to give it a good category or two. Vegaswikian 06:49, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Notable phrase. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:58, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Please Keep!.Technically you are all right, of course: my contribution about the concept of Spaceship Earth is not widely recognised. Thus, your rejection of it as being just the author’s opinion. However, it happens to be true and extremely important. Sometimes it is appropriate to bend or even break the rules for a higher cause: if we screw the planet (which we are well on the way to doing) we screw Wikipedia and everything else as well. I hope that you will allow me to continue contributing to the article. If my passion to save the world is not scientific, objective or academic enough others can perhaps help it to become so –-Roger Hicks 18 Aug.

Roger, as long as none of the POV of the original article re-appears, you are as welcome as everyone else to contribute. Since Wikipedia is not a soapbox, any arguments to convince people to do something do not belong in Wikipedia. You are entirely free to post those arguments on your own website and anywhere else that will get people's attention. --Habap 13:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Why not. Notable phrase. Sam Vimes 13:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Cleanup and keep: the metaphor and phrase are indeed notable, and this article is a beginning. Smerdis of Tlön 14:27, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Bucky Fuller is astounding, had I known this article was there I might have worked on it myself, keep it and I will. Alf 15:10, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Notable phrase that cannot be simply placed in any other singel article. Caerwine 22:03, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep I've added some references and a new example of usage of the phrase by Kenneth E. Boulding. JimR 07:23, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I've also added a Buckminster Fuller quote. JimR 03:09, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. – NSR (talk) 06:21, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Prince Sigismund of Prussia

Unencyclopedic. Died as baby. Did nothing prominent, represented nothing prominent. All details can be put into his mother's article. 217.140.193.123 09:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC) Just the fact that he was born a royal, does not suffice. I have earlier stated some thumb-rule criteria of royal babies having an own article, such as if the baby in question left a country in a succession crisis when dying. Or possibly, if the history may have altered significantly, had the baby lived. Otherwise, all the pertinent details of the baby in question fit into articles of parent(s), and an own article is undeserved. For encyclopedia, it is fragmenting to make these separate articles. 217.140.193.123 09:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep inherently interesting, if there is nothing to say, then redirect to parents. No need to delete. Trollderella 19:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep the child may not have lived long but the fact he lived at all is of historial relevance.
• Redirect to parent's page. Not good to disperse infopieces to this sort of small articles. Arrigo 20:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Nobility does not imply notability. Martg76 23:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Not good to squash info into articles where it doesn't naturally belong. Osomec 00:13, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Notable child. Capitalistroadster 01:39, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep for reasons stated under the Grand Duke baby nomination, below. 23skidoo 03:16, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep all real royalty. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:59, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - otherwise I would agree, but stating that particular person of royal blood is definitely dead will deter false pretenders - Skysmith 12:06, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - May only be a minor child but is still of interest to those interested in British and German royalty. Chrispo 20:52, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - A grandchild of Queen Victoria, this article merits keeping in relation to his parents.
• Week Keep - With both parents notable there is no other natural place for the article's information. Caerwine 22:13, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. john k 16:28, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Mortal kombat spinn and Spinn (mortal kombat character)

This doesn't seem to be a real Mortal Kombat character and I can no mention of him on Google. According to the edit history on Black Dragon (Mortal Kombat), the organization to which the character supposedly belongs, the same user who created these two pages added him onto this page (IP address 67.136.142.x), and it sounds as if this character comes from the comic book but does not appear in any actual games. Not having played Mortal Kombat myself, I wouldn't know, but I can't find him in any Mortal Kombat official sites, either. I say delete for not being a real character, unless someone wants to start add a section of "characters not appearing in games" to the list of Mortal Kombat characters. --Howcheng 16:57, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy delete both and if we put it to the vote, the rest of the real characters would join them. Cruft to the max. Mind you, I played MK on arcade when it came out, enjoyed MK2 immensely for the SNES and MK:D is pretty much the only video game I play today. / Peter ^Isotalo 17:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• My son used to kick my tuckus on a regular basis on every variation of MK, so I got to know the characters pretty well. Ain't no such animal as this here Spinn. Delete with a flawless victory. - Lucky 6.9 22:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete with a Fatality. I don't know what kind of garbage this is, but there's probably no bigger Mortal Kombat fan out there than I am, and I've never heard of such a character. (Notorious4life 07:00, 18 August 2005 (UTC))
• Delete, would have voted keep had it been a real character, but this one isn't. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:01, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. There is a duplicate copy of this article at Socio-economic environment which will also go. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:40, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Socio-Economic Environment

Delete. POV original research part of a POV series of articles uploaded by User:Roger Hicks. --IByte 17:05, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• I vote delete. Definite POV. --Daul21 17:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)Daul21
• Please keep! The above arguments for deletion have some validity, I cannot deny, but the point that I (the author) am making in the article is very important and deserves to remain for a while to give those concerned with environmental and sustainability issues a chance to read and appreciate it. It needs to be read and understood in the context of my other recent contributions --Roger Hicks 17 Aug.
• Delete OR, WP is not a soapbox. --Etacar11 17:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete POV, OR. Roger, just let people come to your website if they want to read what you've got say. --Habap 17:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, original research. Sdedeo 18:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete forthwith. Roger: you are either unaware of what wikipedia is, or else you are deliberately trying to flount the rules. Either way, it is incredibly rude, since it requires people waste their time voting stuff out that should never have found its way in in the first place. In the face of such a blatant rule violation, I highly suggest that instead of preaching by way of defending your submission, you find a more appropriate venue for your work. Dottore So 18:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, apparently original research. Gazpacho 20:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. OR. -- DS1953 05:09, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no concensus. - Mailer Diablo 16:42, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Slovenian or Slovene

A page created solely due to an internal dispute concerning the usage of either Slovenian or Slovene (the former is more common) with Eleassar and BT2 being the main protagonists. Non-encyclopedic wiki-internal conflict page. This info can either be covered in about two sentences in just about any article about Slovenians or the Slovenian language. Delete or redirect to Slovenian. Peter ^Isotalo 17:13, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect. Andrew pmk 18:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. User:Karmosin is simply wrong. First, although I contributed heavily to the discussion, the main protagonists of the conflict that participated in edit wars were User:XJamRastafire and User:BT2. Second, while this has been a wiki-internal dispute, the topic has frequently been brought up in non-wiki discussions both online and offline. This can be easily demonstrated by the sheer number of texts written on this question by experts (e.g. Edward Gobetz, Professor Emeritus of Sociology, Kent State University and founding director of Slovenian Research Center of America and others) and at the same time this also demonstrates that the topic can be covered in two sentences no more easily than any other. I suggest you seeing these links before voting: [12], [13], [14] etc. Also have a look at Talk:Slovenians. --Eleassar my talk 15:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • There is no relevant encyclopedic POV involved in any of the links. This information belongs in a Manual of Style or just general Slovene info webpages. The rest is just a lot of meta-debate about clever semantics. It doesn't even count as valid dictionary info because almost no one cares. Like one of the links points out: "Both are acceptable. Neither one is wrong. Consistency is always nice." End of story. / Peter ^Isotalo 22:41, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete pointless. Maybe this stuff should belong in Wiktionary.  Grue  20:04, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Slovenian. - ulayiti (talk) 19:46, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. - Mailer Diablo 13:12, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Moral economy

Delete. POV original research (+website spam) part of a POV series of articles uploaded by User:Roger Hicks. Author has reverted others' attempts to dePOV. --IByte 17:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

We can keep this improved version if the Utopian moral economies section is axed or severely rewritten to conform to WP:NPOV. --IByte 16:04, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete OR/POV/WP is not a soapbox. --Etacar11 17:40, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep cleaned up version, as long as it stays NPOV. --Etacar11 05:16, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Please keep! The concept of a "moral market" is very important and deserves an article. The points that I (the author) am making are important and deserve to remain for a while to give those concerned with environmental and sustainability issues a chance to read and appreciate them. It needs to be read and understood in the context of my other recent contributions --Roger Hicks 17 Aug.

  Sorry, Wikipedia is not a soapbox. If you can cite published works that discuss this concept under this name, please do so. Gazpacho

• Delete, original research, spam, vanity. Sdedeo 18:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete if they need to read your original research, find somewhere else to post it. --Habap 18:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep now that it is focused on stuff that is not OR. I love it when the result of a VfD is a re-shaped article that is useful. --Habap 14:24, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete OR and POV. Jaxl | talk 18:43, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete for every imaginable reason. Paul 00:02, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. -- DS1953 05:08, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Weak keep after thorough cleanup. The concept of a "moral economy" is indeed noteworthy; it gets an extended discussion in Joseph Heath's The Efficient Society. It's a standard term used in economics and anthropology for the social interplay between moral ideas and economic activity. Google yields more than 54,000 hits. Smerdis of Tlön 14:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Assuming it got saved, have briefly expanded the article with some stubbish discussion of these points. Agree that it still needs serious cleanup. Smerdis of Tlön 14:55, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep for these reasons. It is a noteworthy concept, but does need cleanup. I like Smerdis' efforts so far. Jeff Worthington 15:04, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep now that it's cited (although it might need more work). Gazpacho 02:02, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep thanks to Smerdis's work -- allow it to develop further. JimR 05:51, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep but cut the last section on 'Utopian Moral Economy.' The rest could be useful if cleaned up and expanded - User:Brodie
• Keep new version. - ulayiti (talk) 19:48, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: I don't think we should keep the external link to spaceship-earth.org on this one (mostly per WP:NOT). --IByte 14:25, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment This still reads like a collection of viewpoints; it does not come together and become encyclopedic. Regarding the 54,000 Google hits, there are plenty of two word combinations-"moral economy" being one of them-that would have lots of search results but aren't worthy of inclusion. Paul 16:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Chetan Prabhudesai

Delete Vanity PhilipO 17:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy delete as no evidence of notability is visible, aside from his reaching 682nd best Kerry Volunteer during the US election. Sliggy 18:54, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Andrew pmk 18:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. – NSR (talk) 06:21, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Grand Duke Alexander Alexandrovich of Russia

Unencyclopedic. Died as baby. Did nothing prominent, represented nothing prominent. All details can be put into his mother's article. 217.140.193.123 08:40, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep or redirect to parents page. Trollderella 19:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep brozen 20:08, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to parent's page. Not good to disperse infopieces to this sort of small articles. Arrigo 20:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect. Pavel Vozenilek 22:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep All Russian Grand Dukes are notable. Osomec 00:14, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep There's enough information in the article to establish suitable notability to remain here. DreamGuy 01:39, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Grand Duke = notable. Grand Duke who died young = interesting = notable. 23skidoo 03:15, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Notability does not necessarily have anything to do with achievements. Notability is attached to you by other people, often when you have no achievements at all, as in this case. Everyking 04:46, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep royalty. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Wikinerd 07:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - otherwise I would agree, but stating that particular person of royal blood is definitely dead will deter false pretenders - Skysmith 12:07, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Weak Keep - As the child of two prominent parents, this keeps Wikipedia from duplicating the information. Caerwine 22:19, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep john k 16:28, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Gorecroft

Non-notable. Al 17:36, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Six unique google hits. Someone's house (even if it is old) is not notable. Also, semi-detached? What's next, a 13th century split-level? --Icelight 18:47, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Andrew pmk 18:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Icelight. Jaxl | talk 19:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete not interesting. Secretlondon 04:28, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Non notable cottage. There must be countless number of named cottages. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:04, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE Meelar 15:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Julien Legrand

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. --Cyberjunkie | Talk 12:21, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Suspect vanity. User made two contributions on 3 August and hasn't been back. Article claims person has won several international titles. I can not find evidence of any international titles. I have found evidence of at least one age-under-16 Australian state title, and possibly a similar national title (hard to decipher). Does this make this person of interest sufficient for an encyclopedia entry? Frankly, I'm uncertain. Normally, this would be placed for speedy under the new vanity rule, but I'm putting it up for VfD because of the titles this person has received, rather than speedy. Your thoughts? --Durin 17:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, non-notable. PS: what is the "new vanity rule"? Sdedeo 18:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Under Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion Articles rule 7. See Wikipedia:Deletion of vanity articles for more information. --Durin 18:19, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Only 2 relevant google hits on "julien legrand" +Judo. Nn vanity page. Dottore So
• Delete; non-notable vanity. Jaxl | talk 19:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Would need clear evidence of being a junior world champion to be worth keeping. Osomec 00:16, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as vanity--Cyberjunkie | Talk 12:21, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete countless pan-pacific, state and national titles - a sixteen-year-old should be able to count a maximum of one trophy a year of each type since he was nine - especially as an "accomplished academic". --Scott Davis ^Talk 14:24, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Aisling devenney

I'm sure she's gorgeous, but when you can't find a well-conected supermodel on Google, you begin to think 'somethings's wrong' --Doc (?) 18:11, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Andrew pmk 18:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• I must be using a special version of Google here. I can't find a significant mention of any of these well-known people, products or campaigns. Delete or get me a link to a different Google Tonywalton Talk 18:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as apparent hoax. --Etacar11 19:07, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Jaxl | talk 19:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as hoax. Capitalistroadster 01:42, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:37, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sumo pope

Non notable website advertising. Doesn't even have a dedicated URL - the site is hosted on geocities and redirected with a .tk service. Delete --Blu Aardvark | ^{(talk) | (contribs)} 18:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete - non-notable -Satori 18:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. non-notable. Andrew pmk 18:49, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Jaxl | talk 18:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nominator. ManoaChild 21:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:38, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Socio-economic order

Delete. dicdef part of a POV original research series of articles uploaded by User:Roger Hicks. Roger, please note our policy which states that Wikipedia is not a soapbox. --IByte 18:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Andrew pmk 18:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete dicdef. Jaxl | talk 18:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, Pavel Vozenilek 22:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Osomec 00:17, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. – NSR (talk) 06:21, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Conception (band)

Does not appear notable. Al 18:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Withdrawn. Al 18:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. Lots of Google hits for "conception band", 4 CDs listed, international performances. Andrew pmk 18:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. AMG has an entry on them [15], and I just added their discography. Meets WP:MUSIC guidelines. Jaxl | talk 18:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Conception was one of the more influential prog metal bands of their era. --Mberning 04:54, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] US Government Simulator

Non-notable game. Reads like advertising. Al 18:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] Votes from registered users

• Delete Advertising. Johntex 19:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete ad. Jaxl | talk 19:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge into Government simulation. While being the first government simulation is worth being mentioned in an article, it does not necessarily merit its own article. If this game is as notable as Mr. Joffey here implies, then why are there only 4 google results when searching for "US Government Simulator" and only 67 results when searching for "usgovsim", while other simulation games like Nationstates get over 200,000 results? Jaxl | talk 20:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Strong delete. The sock puppetry here is ridiculous. None of them want to give any proof of notability and instead draw attention off the non-notability of this site by attacking other users here. Randomosityii has actually worked against this site by saying that there are only 247 members, a big sign of non-notability. Feel free to attack me, but my vote is now delete. Jaxl | talk 20:07, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Again, they're not sock puppets. I know all these people. At least, I think I do... :-o - Calmypal (T) 03:52, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
    • Maybe, but I'm not taking any chances. Jaxl | talk 12:52, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Not sufficiently notable. Sdedeo 20:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Advertising foolishness which deserves to go straight to Wiki-Hell. Digital Thief 21:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. nn game. Unable to verify claims of notability. ManoaChild 21:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC) (Comment deleted by post below --Icelight 21:54, August 17, 2005 (UTC))
• Delete and watch to make sure that the page (or a clone) is not recreated, as its promoter has stated. WP:NOT a web directory. --Icelight 21:54, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, wiki is not paper. - Calmypal (T) 22:50, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep looks factual and worthwhile. Trollderella 00:29, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Completely unnotable even by low wikipedia standards. Dottore So 00:58, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• KEEP USG is unique, notable, and original. It deserves its own article. --Alxt 01:41, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Provides relevant information and detailed history and background. Lullabye Muse 03:38, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Absolutely delete. This is not notable at all. And please discount all voters with fewer than 100 edits. The sock puppetry here is absolutely absurd. JDoorjam 13:50, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with Government simulation or delete ouright - 10:06, 18 August 2005 (forgot to sign --Calton | Talk 22:49, August 18, 2005 (UTC))
• Delete: The current article is unencyclopedic, uninformative and thin, and the underlying subject (one specific sim) is similarly non-noteable. Merge into a generalized article about Govsims/Nationsims or delete. -- RyanFreisling @ 18:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. WP:NOT a web guide. Looks like a minor web forum with an unusual theme. Less than 250 members, far short of my threshold of 50,000. --Carnildo 18:35, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. WP:NOT a web directory. · Katefan0^(scribble) 18:44, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 19:47, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Simply not a notable enough subject, and a rambling and dull article. Right at this point of time it has four guests and zero members online, and presumably one of the guests is myself. As alternative history it might one day be notable, if it stirs up enough interest (see also Soc.history.what-if or [16] amongst many others). -Ashley Pomeroy 23:50, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete normally I would say keep but all these sockpuppets drive me insane. Kill it with fire and acid. Redwolf24 00:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. The "excessive spamming, rampant complaining, and extreme partisan bickering" noted in the article seems to have followed it here. -- Norvy (talk) 03:04, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete post haste. Protect if necessary. Radiant_>|< 10:35, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
• Condense and Merge into Government simulation. Caerwine 22:26, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: Not notable. Alex rank of over 2.6 million. Google lists 0 links to their site. Wikibofh 03:09, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete (previously reserved pending further info) A reference below by John Joffey states that 'AGS and the other Govsims/Internationalsims already have their own pages', I can only find Adventure Game Studio as I do not know any other Govism/Internatiolisms names. AGS in that article refers to software which enables game writing and cites games that have been made using this software. The article up for VfD is an online game. Can anyone cite other pages that John might be referring to before I make a decision? Alf 22:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

• He's talking about American Government Simulation, if that's what you were asking. That article was put up for VFD by members of this government simulation because of the "double standards" John Joffey is citing from this article being deleted and AGS having an article. Jaxl | talk 23:25, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Jaxl, that article reads like an encylopedic, intelligible explanation of an online political forum which simulates various aspects of government. The article up for VfD reads like an advertisment for an online computer game simulating various aspects of government. Vote changed to delete. Alf 23:46, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Votes from IP addresses, very new users, and unsigned votes

• KEEP! It's Factual! www.usgovsim.com 16:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• KEEP!- So apparently other sites get to have their own pages, but USG doesn't? Hypocrites Spotle

• User's only votes. Wikibofh 01:11, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

• Delete USG is being quickly outpaced by a variety of other Government Simulators and remains one of the least active out of them. American Government, National Government, USPolitics, etc. all have much more active users. Should be merged with other Government simulator topics. Wikipedia is not a billboard. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.164.38.81 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 17 August 2005.

~ Clie

• KEEP. It is an incredibly active simulation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.195.235.188 (talk • contribs) 17:58,17 August 2005.
• DELETE I echo "While being the first government simulation is worth being mentioned in an article, it does not necessarily merit its own article." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.164.38.81 (talk • contribs) 18:00, 17 August 2005.
• DELETE I'm with Jax on this one. Merge it into the other government simulator article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sharris0512 (talk • contribs) 18:15, 17 August 2005.
• KEEP If you're gonna delete this, then I demand that you delete all the other Government Simulators with their own pages. USG just moved from another site "www.usgovsim.com". It was moved because the server was crappy as hell. How do I know? Because I dropped $125 to help buy the damn server! So stop being a bunch of whiney hypocrites and shut your unknowledgeable mouths! - User: Randomosityii

• User's 7th edit. Wikibofh 01:38, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Keep this up. I mean lets not bash anyones sim here. If you want to make a encyclopedia about your sim thats fine and we have a right to as well - Karasoth

• User's only edits. Wikibofh 01:04, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

• KEEP!!! USG deserves a page just as much if not more so than any of the other government simulators —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.245.115.49 (talk • contribs) 19:00, 17 August 2005.
• KKEEEEPP! w00t w00t. Carrifel

• User's only edit. Wikibofh 01:07, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

• KEEP The US Government Simulator is the original and deserves its own article. Not to mention, elections are done through an actual formula instead of the way that other sims run their elections. TylerKCampbell

• User's second edit. Jaxl | talk 01:26, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

• KEEP USG is the first and original US Government Simulator. Regardless of the new stats on the new server, USG does and will always deserve a Wiki article. -- Eric3446

• User's only edit. Jaxl | talk 02:39, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

• KEEP Wikipedia is not just for ancient events but for all events, and the events of USG are not ancient but ongoing and at the forefront of innovation, much like Wikipedia is.--msrpotus

• User's first edit. Wikibofh 04:08, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

• Bold textItalic textKEEP this game is the longest running gov sim game. First of all. Secendly Us Gov Sim helped at least one ex player win a Elected office using his campaining skill's he learned from this game for speachwritting. as for Noteariblity this game used to be on Avidgamers. so im not so sure the google spider would look there or on other Msg boards.

This Game has had post about it on Democratic Underground,Daily Kos and other Polical messge Boards and blogs.

• —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Groton (talk • contribs) 07:37, August 18, 2005. ...user's only edit. Wikibofh 13:44, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

• Weak keep - What put me off was its vanity style. I don't know about its notability, but the recent rewrite is a considerable improvement. Gloop 15:13, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

• User's second edit. Jaxl | talk 16:01, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

• Previously done a few minor things under IP address User:82.43.52.87 Gloop 16:47, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

• KEEP!, I've had enough of wikipedia douches trying to get the whole govsim/nationsim genre deleted 213.67.49.17 17:21, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep:' It's as significant, if not moreso, than other similar games that have pages on Wikipedia Ryanpickett2005 01:27, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

• User's 10th and 11th edits...and number nine was vandalism Wikibofh 02:48, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

• Comment:I find it ludicrous that there are votes to delete this. Everything in this article is 100% factual seeing as I have written all of it and I founded the game. As for it being "non-notable" it is the single most notable Government Simulation game that exists. It was the FIRST comprehensive government simulation, and I pride myself knowing that this game is very much a learning experience as everybody who plays gains significant knowledge about american politics and government. Continuing, "AGS" another government simulator that came after this one, has a page here on wikipedia, and you dont see me voting to delete that, or the biased page on "Government Simulation" written by somebody not affiliated with USG and who conviently, it seems, left USG information off that page except for 1 or 2 lines. I am relatively new to wikipedia, so excuse me that I had the line "advertising" the game. I removed it, so there are no more qualms.

--John Joffey

• Comment:Clie, Sorry, but AGS, NPS, and PolUS arent "passing USG up" (and by the way, get your facts straight...PolUS MERGED INTO USG!, Thanks for bringing your garbage into the discussion) and USG is certainly not being "outpaced". Thank you for wasting my time. I would really like to know what all these random people have against having this page up? So far, nobody is really giving any good reasons for these votes to Delete. Now, if a Admin from Wikipedia would like to contact me to discuss making this page more suited for Wikipedia, I would have no problem editing to meet these guidelines. However, outright deletion would just uphold the double standard of letting a copycat game, AGS, have its own page on here and USG not. Also, I am not going to vote on my own page, because I dont think deletion is a valid option. If a Wikipedia Admin wants to contact me, my AIM is PillagerConclave

--John Joffey

• Comment:HERE! HERE! Joffey! What you wrote was factual!

--Frank Www.usgovsim.com

Enough with the sock puppets. Al 20:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• I'm not a sock puppet, I'm the former VP at USG, and current Representative for Michigan's Third District there! Frank 16:48 (EST), 17 August 2005

That's right, he's not a sock puppet. - Calmypal (T) 22:19, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

I beg your pardon. "Meatpuppet" then. --Al 19:29, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

• Comment:What you are is someone unaware of the difference between "factual" and "notable". Ben-w 20:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment:NationStates is a BUSINESS-backed game made by somebody promoting his book and the idea of corporate government. USGovsim is not a business, its is just a free web-based forum game. It is THE MOST notable of any Government Simulator game, so the fact that you want to delete our page, but AGS (American Government Sim) a game that has been around alot less longer than USG and more or less a copycat game is allowed to have a page is a double standard. This is a FREE encyclopedia, and this page is 100% Fact. USG was *the* pioneer in Govsim-based gaming, so if there are going to be pages about Govsims on here, then I am going to make sure the facts are known.

--John Joffey

• Comment:If this site is "THE MOST notable of any Government Simulator game", then you should have no problem citing refrences that establish its notability. Unless you can cite a large google result, a media or a news source that has done a report on this game, or some other piece of material by an independent site/organisation/whatever, then there is no reason why this page cannot be mentioned in Government simulation instead. Furthermore, this debate is not about AGS, nor does anyone here care about what % of this article is fact. From what I can see, AGS will probably be VFD'd eventually anyway. Jaxl | talk 23:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Additionally, the web site was recently moved to a new URL, so references on Google is less than important. As a forum, I wouldn't expect that spider would follow it. This is a notable site, as far as I can tell. Brian Sayrs 21:43, 2005 August 17 (UTC)

What was the old URL? It might help to establish notability. ManoaChild 21:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

The old site and all the quotes on it are gone now, allowing many a politician to breathe a sigh of relief. - Calmypal (T) 22:50, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

(But now that I think about it, http://www.moobaq.com/usgboard)

• Comment:Cane we just end this nonsense now and let us keep our page? I mean seriously, the only "delete" votes are coming from people totally clueless about the gaming world of govsims. The fact that they are passing judgment on us in such an ingnorant manner is really out of line. I implore Wikipedia Admins to remove the "deletion discussion" as soon as possible.

--John Joffey

• Comment. The question isn't whether the article is factual, but rather whether the game is notable enough for its own article. That a number of passionate fans of the game have come here to "stuff the ballot box" and to counter what they perceive as an attack is all-too-common. There are thousands of games out there, all who would claim to be "unique" in some way, with some passionate fans. Should they all have their own article? Wikipedia is not a webgame directory. This article is not encyclopedic. --Al 13:38, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I would also suggest that those users who have signed up primarily for purposes of participating in this VfD actually look around and get a better feel for what Wikipedia is all about. --Al
• Comment. I have rewritten to remove a lot of the advertisingness that drew initial complaint. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lomn (talk • contribs) 09:47, 18 August 2005.
• Comment: Mr. Joffey, calling people ignorant does not help your cause. All we are asking you to do is to give proof that your site is notable, which you repeatedly avoid doing. It should not be that difficult; after all, this site is "THE MOST notable of any Government Simulator game", isn't it? Also, it is irrelevant whether or not Google picks up someone mentioning this site on a message board; that does not mean it is notable. Unless you can find a good number of different people on different boards (preferably ones with a large userbase) that have mentioned this site, then there is no notability here. Groton here also mentions that this site had been on Avidgamers (a statement which I have yet to see any evidence for); and even if it was, then why is it not currently there? And is that the only site that this game was on? Mr. Joffey, please give evidence supporting your claims. Jaxl | talk 14:00, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment:Not a single one of you can tell me why USG cannot have its own Wikipedia page, yet AGS and the other Govsims/Internationalsims already have their own pages? DOUBLE STANDARD. You let them keep theirs, let us keep ours. We are the most notable one. Sorry that there is no "Govsim Notability Tracker." I honestly cant beliueve you people have nothing better to do than bash wikipedia pages you know NOTHING about.

--John Joffey

• Comment:Jaxl....247 members and 40,000 posts...IN JUST 2 MONTHS. That's right...2 months. But hey, you're so (personal attack removed) BIASED that you won't recognize that. Also, we're not on Avidgamers anymore because it got too slow and we decided to BUY our own site and forums. That's right...we BOUGHT the site instead of using a free one. That's why it's no longer on Avidgamers...but (personal attack removed) you can't realize that.

• —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Randomosityii (talk • contribs) 17:26, August 18, 2005.

• Comment: Biased towards what? Towards just wanting some facts? Forgive me for wanting to know more about this site. That information you provided would have been just fine, had you not added "...but (personal attack removed) you can't realize that." You should also note that 247 members isn't a lot, "But hey, you're so (personal attack removed) BIASED that you won't recognize that." Furthermore, nobody cares that you had to dish out a whole $125 to buy a "damn server"; no one here told you to do that. And you should note that I changed my vote from delete to merge. I do not want this to be deleted. If you have some free time (which it seems you do, since you have nothing better to do than to insult people who don't even want this deleted), then please read Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Civility. Thanks. Jaxl | talk 17:41, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

USGovSim.com was mentioned on the September 1, 2004 edition of "Cafe Politics" on WKNT Knightcast, which is student radio for the University of Central Florida. UCF is one of the largest public universities in the nation with over 40,000 students. This discussion was not advertising based and discussed government simulators in relations to the study of politics during the 2004 US Elections. If necessary, I will attempt to attain a copy of that night's show for verification. -Roary Snider, Executive Producer, Cafe Politics on Knightcast WKNT 67.8.248.211 02:48, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result of the debate was keep. – NSR (talk) 06:22, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Prince Nikolai of Denmark

Unencyclopedic. Thin of noteworthiness. Has done nothing prominent, represents nothing important. All details can be put into his father's article. Just the fact that he was born a royal, does not suffice. As this boy is going to have a cousin who is the heir presumptive, thus Nikolai is not presumed to ever succeed to the Danish throne (barring unexpected events). He is the heir of his father, thus deserves article a bit better than his own younger brother, but IMO does not yet deserve it. I have earlier stated some thumb-rule criteria of royal babies having an own article, such as if the baby in question left a country in a succession crisis when dying. This boy could expect an own article when in his teens and gaining individual attention from media. Not yet. Otherwise, all the pertinent details of the child in question fit into articles of parent(s), and an own article is undeserved. For encyclopedia, it is fragmenting to make these separate articles. 217.140.193.123 09:09, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep or redirect to parent's page. Trollderella 19:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - someone who is third in line to the Danish throne should be kept. There is no discussion that someone third in line to the British throne should be deleted. Minor royals should not be deleted just because a Republican is anti-royal.
• Keep D. J. Bracey (talk) 20:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to father's page. And, it seems to me that there is very light and commonplace information in this article now. Arrigo 21:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I think monarchy should be abolished, but not on Wikipedia. In other words: In my eyes this prince is not inherently notable, but my POV is irrelevant in an encyclopedia. Punkmorten 21:35, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. As third, soon to be fourth in line for the Danish throne, he is still an important figure. Likewise, if Lady Louise Windsor's article is kept, and she's eighth in line to the throne, then Nikolai, who is much closer, should also be kept. Morhange 00:09, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. He is third in line to the throne of Denmark. There was an article on the third in line to the British throne when he was a minor. Probably for other countries, too. Tree&Leaf 00:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Verifiable article about someone of wider interest than thousands of people we have articles about. Osomec 00:19, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, echoing sentiments above. Dottore So 01:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Members of royal families are inherently notable, particularly those close to the crown. 23skidoo 03:14, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep members of the royal family. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:05, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, gets lots of press in Denmark. Thue | talk 16:34, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, Grandchild of a reigning monarch is sufficiently notable. Caerwine 22:32, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep john k 16:29, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Grandchild of a monarch, third in line to the throne now, fourth soon, people much lower in the line of succession to the British Throne are kept, so should this be. prsgoddess187 06:16, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. – NSR (talk) 06:22, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Prince Felix of Denmark

Unencyclopedic. Thin of noteworthiness. Has done nothing prominent, represents nothing important. All details can be put into his father's article. Just the fact that he was born a royal, does not suffice. Please realize that in addition, this boy is a younger son, thus not presumed to ever succeed to the Danish throne (barring unexpected events). I have earlier stated some thumb-rule criteria of royal babies having an own article, such as if the baby in question left a country in a succession crisis when dying. This boy could expect an own article when in his teens and gaining individual attention from media. Not yet. Otherwise, all the pertinent details of the baby in question fit into articles of parent(s), and an own article is undeserved. For encyclopedia, it is fragmenting to make these separate articles. 217.140.193.123 09:06, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep or redirect to parent's page. Trollderella 19:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - this person is 4th in line to the Danish throne - it is befitting of a comprehensive encyclopedia to have an entry on him
• Keep notable. Dunc|☺ 20:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to father's page. And, it seems to me that there is very light and commonplace information in this article now. Arrigo 21:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I think monarchy should be abolished, but not on Wikipedia. In other words: In my eyes this prince is not inherently notable, but my POV is irrelevant in an encyclopedia. Punkmorten 21:36, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. He's fourth, or soon to be fifth in line to the Danish throne, which is still an important position. Lady Louise Windsor is eighth in line to the British throne, yet her article is still up. Morhange 00:06, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Verifiable article about someone of wider interest than thousands of people we have articles about. Osomec 00:19, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, echoing sentiments above. Dottore So 01:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Royal family members are inherently notable. 23skidoo 03:13, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep members of the royal family. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:05, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, as with his brother. Caerwine 22:34, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, gets lots of press in Denmark. Thue | talk 16:35, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep john k 16:28, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result of the debate was keep (no consensus). I know I voted here, but since it was a "delete" vote, I don't feel too guilty about closing this as a keep. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:49, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pete Ashdown

non-notable person Johntex 19:10, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Certainly a notable person. Keep. Andre (talk) 19:49, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Does not appear to meet deletion criteria. Trollderella 20:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I respect anyone who takes on Orrin Hatch, but we should wait until he's elected. Gazpacho 20:10, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - if he actually gets elected in 2006 then list him, otherwise Wikipedia will have to list EVERYONE that stands for public office, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, so as to not to have perceptable bias. (This is a vote by anonymous user 81.97.114.168 --Andre (talk) 20:54, August 17, 2005 (UTC))
  • I have removed the strike-through tags. We don't automatically reject anonymous votes on VfD. -- Visviva 00:01, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Pete Ashdown is notable for being the founder of XMission, not just politically. Andre (talk) 20:54, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, I'd say. Shimgray 22:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, notable enough for me. K1Bond007 22:50, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Might be notable if he becomes the official Democratic candidate against Hatch. It is not neccesary to defeat Hatch, but he should at least gain the Demacrats' nomination before becoming sufficiently notable. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:08, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Just about notable. Viable candidate for national election with press coverage. Sdedeo 13:13, 18 August 2005 (UTC). Ah, didn't know that he hadn't won the nomination. Delete, then, for now, thanks Sjakkalle. Sdedeo 13:15, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, but only until he gets the nomination. As per Sjakkalle. Meelar (talk) 14:59, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per 81.97.114.168. Nabla 21:32:47, 2005-08-18 (UTC)
• Keep. I cannot believe this is on VfD. What is that supposed to mean, "Wait until he gets the nomination"? Should we have waited until John Edwards was nominated (or as it turned out, not nominated) to make an article (Yeah, I know this is an amazingly imperfect analogy, but my point is still made at least to that extent). And "Wikipedia will have to list EVERYONE that stands for public office, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, so as to not to have perceptable bias." That is even more ridiculous. For one, United States Senator is not "any public office anywhere in the world." Writing about a candidate for U.S. Senator is not the same about writing about a candidate for Bergen County Freeholder. Please don't make really stupid hyperbolic statements like that one. And because we make one article on bananas doesn't mean that to "be fair" or "not have bias" we have to send osmeone out to make one on every fruit ever at that moment. D. G. 04:38, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment Avoid calling other persons opinions ridiculous, that does not help. To me "Everyone" means "everyone candidating to a similar public office". Is a candidate to be a candidate of the US Senate anyhow more important than a candidate in any national parliament around the world? It doesn't look like so to me. Now, here in Portugal we have 5 major parties, each presenting 230 candidates to the parliament. That's 1150 candidates. If we include minor parties that would easily double, and it would also double if "possible" candidates were included. But let's stick to a nice round 1000 figure. That was Portugal alone. Multiply that for 100 countries with similar institutions and you reach a nice round figure of 100,000 similar candidates around the worls every 4/5 years. Do we want them all? I don't. Nabla 00:09:14, 2005-08-21 (UTC)
• Weak Delete Based on what is there, there isn't sufficient reason otherwise to keep the article, and I don't know enough about Utah politics to judge whether he even has a chance to get the Democratic nomination or not. Even if he does, being the next Democrat to lose to Senator Hatch hardly seems notable enough to warrant an article. Caerwine 22:41, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

• Do you guys even have any idea what Wikipedia's deletion standards are? Or do you just make it up as you go along based upon what you personally feel like at the moment? D. G. 03:24, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. Fairly marginal, but I think he has some degree of notability as a "geek / candidate". Also, unlike most candidates for office, he's clueful enough to use a .org address for his (noncommercial) campaign site, unlike all the marketroid types who inappropriately use .com sites. *Dan* 04:56, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
• Strong keep. I think Ashdown is notable enough. It's not necessary to have an article on everyone who runs for office anywhere in the world. (This is Lst27)
• Weak keep, sounds notable on a rather small scale, but notable enough to be kept. - ulayiti (talk) 19:51, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Sjakkalle (note, I am the nominator) Johntex 21:54, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no concensus. - Mailer Diablo 16:46, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sea bear

A minor joke in one single episode of SpongeBob. Delete. A Link to the Past 19:31, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Keep or integrate into a 'minor characters' page. Trollderella 19:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete We've got to have some limits on cruftiness. [[smoddy]] 20:30, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. This is slightly excessive. (Alternately, while we're at it, we could duplicate the entire script of the episode...) -Aranel ("Sarah") 00:23, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Whoa, slightly excessive? I'd hate to see real excess. Dottore So 01:06, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with Minor characters in SpongeBob SquarePants; fictional character not worthy of a whole article, but worthy of inclusion. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge/Redirect to The Camping Episode, or per above. Next up, the Sea Rhino. Ooooo.... %-/ — RJH 15:36, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge. Although, it was more than just a short joke- it took up a couple good minutes of the plot. ral315 19:34, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Merge. - ulayiti (talk) 19:51, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no concensus. - Mailer Diablo 16:46, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Atomic Flounder

Character that appears in only one episode, with no more than a guest appearance. Delete. A Link to the Past 19:28, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Keep or integrate into a 'minor characters' page. Trollderella 19:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Perhaps I should explain something: He's in the show for 30 seconds. SpongeCruft. -- A Link to the Past 20:14, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete If this kind of stuff is really wanted, there should be a WikiCity put up for it. Wikipedia is not the place. [[smoddy]] 20:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep or merge someplace, part of comprehensive coverage of Spongebob. Kappa 23:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • We don't NEED a comprehensive coverage of SpongeBob. What are you, The Defender of the Cruft? The Koopa Kids had to be merged together, and they were in four games, but a character with nothing to say anything about who was only on for 30 seconds can have his own article? For Heavens' sake... -- A Link to the Past 23:45, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment. If you're going to criticize people for their vote, there's no reason to even have a vote. This user has a good reason why they believe this article should stay, and it's their choice. ral315 19:35, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. This is excessive, even by my standards. -Aranel ("Sarah") 00:23, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Dottore So 01:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to Minor characters in SpongeBob SquarePants. I already merged the information to this existing article. Redirects are cheap (and may prevent someone from recreating this article at a later date). -- DS1953 05:07, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect per DS1953. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• SpongeBob CruftPants. Redirect to Minor characters in SpongeBob SquarePants or delete ouright. --Calton | Talk 13:54, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect per DS1953. ral315 19:32, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
  • We don't write every article, with a summary of every single thing they do. It can be reduced to a single sentence. -- A Link to the Past 19:52, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect. - ulayiti (talk) 19:52, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no concensus. - Mailer Diablo 16:48, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Alaskan Bull Worm

A one-time, plotless character with no personality or back story. Delete. A Link to the Past 19:27, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Keep or integrate into a 'minor characters' page. Trollderella 19:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  • If this is considered more than a miniscule character, then the list will take up more space than any article. This is no minor character, it is a one-time character, as are the thousands of Planktons in that one episode. -- A Link to the Past 19:53, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Unsignificant minor character. Wikipedia is not a cast list for SpongeBob. [[smoddy]] 20:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• delete. No need to merge anywhere. Totally insignificant one shot monster of the week. Sabine's Sunbird 20:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep or transform into an article on the episode which is named after it. Kappa 23:30, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Dottore So 01:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with List of minor SpongeBob SquarePants characters, as a fictional character worthy of inclusion, but not its own article. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:13, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• SpongeBob CruftPants. Redirect to Minor characters in SpongeBob SquarePants or delete ouright. --Calton | Talk 13:54, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, it's a character that was the plot of an entire episode. Alternatively, merge to that episode. ral315 19:31, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete or redirect to minor characters, as Calton said.--Mihoshi 17:21, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect to Minor characters in SpongeBob SquarePants. - ulayiti (talk) 19:53, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and redirect to the minor characters page. An entire episode was about him and The Hack Slinging Slasher is also a one-time character, yet he has his own page. -Greensucksbluerules

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The result of the debate was keep for reasons I don't understand but that's the vote. Woohookitty 10:45, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Madonna Kiss

This event was an isolated, planned media stunt in a single award show. The information should be dispersed among the articles for MTV Video Music Award, Madonna (entertainer), Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera. If someone was looking for this information, they wouldn't randomly search for "Madonna Kiss", they would look on the article page for the event or one of the entertainers involved. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:20, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Indeed. Theoretically, merge, but I think all the relevant info is available already, so more likely delete.--fuddlemark 21:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• keep. This was a pretty notable (albeit manufactured) media event involving three independently very notable people, and it massively transcended the significance of the media event at which it was hosted--it made mainstream new in my country, where the MTV awards aren't even normally considered a media even of any significance. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 22:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep but probably move to another title such as Madonna's MTV kiss. Kappa 22:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep looks ok to me. Trollderella 00:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. It really stands on its own and would be difficult to merge efficiently into any other single article. -- DS1953 04:56, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Weak Keep but needs a better name. Vegaswikian 06:56, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep or merge with Madonna. Wikinerd 07:32, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Notable media event. Wouldn't be opposed to merging it with MTV Video Music Award, which is pretty short, but for now, weak keep and rename CanadianCaesar 04:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with MTV Video Music Award. Alf 07:54, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Move to Shia view of the Sahaba and Sunni view of the Sahaba. Redwolf24 (talk) 01:43, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Shia ranking of the Sahaba + Sunni ranking of the Sahaba

It should be noted that Sunni ranking of the Sahaba also exists and should be considered in this VfD. I am putting this up for deletion because the unsourced "ranking" seems inherently POV / original research to me. I originally placed {{move|Shia view of the Sahaba}} but Striver shot down that idea so I believe here will be a better place to determine communal view of this. For more reasons see my vote.

• Move (with change of format and deletion of unsourced) to Shia view of the Sahaba or Shia views of the Sahaba. Because I was unclear: The content will be moved... the main change will be to have this article be descriptive (qualitative) instead of the quantative approach used now which is not found in other sources. gren グレン

I believe that the ranking is impossible to have NPOV. I am aware that there is general Shia feeling towards different individuals but not so we can place different ones in a list of who Shia believe are "strongly positive", "strongly negative", etc. as the page does. we have now, which wouldThe current article is not sourced and I believe this move will first allow a discussion of the views of the Sahaba instead of the list with the rankings which appear to be original research and I am doubting that there is any representative scholarly Shia source with the a ranking system. The viewpoint is fine but I feel this is more or less of a mockery of encyclopedic work. Oh, and for this wanting a more specific policy related reason -- I feel it violates WP:NOT 1.3, 1.7 and to a lesser extent 1.4 gren グレン 19:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep lol, i love it, of cource we need a VFD for even this article, otherwise it would break the trend of VFD all shia articles... --Striver 20:30, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I mean, are you opposing the idea that shias like the Banu Hashim and hate Umar, Muaviya & co, or is your problem that its not all in one single list somewhere? Well, List of cities in Georgia, USA is not sourced, why dont you go and VFD it? I mean, go read any random Shia book and you will se it curse any and everyone on the "strong negative" section and praise any and everyone in the "strong positive" section, as if there was some secret about that... i dont get you. Its common knowledge the stuff added in the list, i mean, its so COMMONLY known that NOBODY has edited or changed the list in ANY way since i created it or added people to it, NOBODY is contesting the ranking. I Mean, are you contesting the ranking? --Striver 20:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Nonetheless "strong negative" and the strict classification of yours is original research. If you wish to cite what the books say that is another matter. Cities in Georgia is more objective fact than this... a completely different ball game. I am contesting the use of ranking in the first place. Sourced descriptions would be fine, but not a ranking. Which is why I believe it should be moved. I would also prefer you not imply that this has anything to do with it being a Shia article. The common denominator in Shia articles up for deletion seems to be your hand placed on them. My reasoning is this. I don't want anyone coming to wikipedia and being under the impression that Sunnis and Shia have some sort of ranking system for Muhammad's companions. -- the different groups will generally have different views and I acknowledge that, so source it and place it in context. One shia site does not mean that that view is correct. Make notable citations Striver and say whom your citing. That is my problem. I haven't editted it because I thought it was such a mess I didn't know what to do so I avoided it. I can't tell you other users' reasons. gren グレン 20:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Those points are already addressed in great detail in the first part of the article. --Striver 22:36, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Needs copyediting, but appears to be a significant topic. No theoretical reason why it can't be neutrally presented. Osomec 00:23, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment This entire enterprise is 'seriously' flawed. It would be interesting to discuss the Sahaba in the context of an emerging Shia & Sunni orthodoxy, particularly why different companions came to be viewed as they were (beyond the bullet point summaries here). But a laundry list like this is difficult to accept. It would be like Cathars ranking of early Saints, or Arianist ranking of the Disciples - a meaningless exercise. Would the author be willing to pen a more detailed exposition of the changing view of the Sahaba within an emerging Shia tradition, complete with proper sources and references? That would be a great article. If the article is kept, the existing content needs to be largely replaced. Dottore So 01:28, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Thats a good point, ill try to add to the article the historical reseason of the split in the view of the Sahaba. However, i feel its going to be hard for me to do that in a NPOV way and i might need some co-editor to help me write in a NPOV way. --Striver 01:42, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, you've come to the right place to find co-editors. In the event that you are able to expand upon the historical context, I would suggest moving the article to a topic heading such as Changing sectarian views of the Sahaba and unite the Sunni and Shia into a merged discussion. Dottore So 01:53, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

• Move I agree with Dottore So, the idea can be tweaked to be much more encyclopedic with a further discussion of the views of individual members of the Sahaba, providing reasons for just how these views came to be with sources of course. Gren is right as well: it seems "ranking" screams "POV list" and Shia Views of the Sahaba would be more appropriate. The idea of ranking gives the impression that the concept is black-and-white, when in reality it's not. Sorna Doon 02:45, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• In light of the discussion above and the general agreement that seems to have emerged, I will vote to Move either per my own or the original suggestion, with the hope that the article will undertake a more systematic examination of how Sunni/Shia views on the Sahaba were formed, and - as importantly - the significance for both communities. Dottore So 18:14, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

• KEEP The article is showing the rankings of Sahaba according to the shia view and there is nothing wrong wiyth that--Khalid! 11:08, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

• KEEP for the same reason as Osomec

--Ya Ali 11:10, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

• Move - i'm with Gren on this one. --Irishpunktom\^talk 14:45, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
• Move, and restructure to deal with the OR and POV issues raised. Looks to me like there's some valuable and useful content here, however. Alai 17:02, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
• Move both. Unless all Shia agree on the ranking of their 100,000 Sahaba and unless all Sunni agree on the ranking of their considerably fewer sahaba, both articles should be renamed, although I would prefer something more like Sahaba in Shia Islam and Sahaba in Sunni Islam. Are there differing views between Alawiya and Zaiddiyah, etc. and/or among the Wahhabis/Salafis and Sufis? I'm not opposed to lists, or even to rankings, as long as there is agreement outside WP as to the correct rankings. Tomer ^TALK 21:19, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

• Move - I have never seen anything to think that there is a universal ranking of the Sahaba. There are different views and it should be moved to say that. rydia 23:44, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

• Move - there could be a good article in a discussion of how the companions of Muhammad -- the early Muslims -- took sides in various disputes. There's the succession to Muhammad and the first Islamic civil war, the Fitna. Basically, the Shi'a trust (rank high) the companions who took the side of Ali ibn Abi Talib. Therefore, any discussion of factionalism among the companions would necessarily subsume the articles under discussion now. Zora 03:19, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE

[edit] Current events in Cisjordan

A complete non-topic. It is supposed to be a Current events page, but nothing of any significance has been added to it since it was created. It does not justify its existence. brozen 19:50, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Delete this fork created to make a WP:POINT. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 22:33, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete if only the whole thing could be made to go away by changing the name... Tomer ^TALK 01:29, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. WP:POINT, creative use of chemical terminology for political purposes. JFW | T@lk 09:06, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment I'm certain that the ancient inhabitants of Cisalpine Gaul would be disturbed to hear you say that. Seriously tho, while the term Cisjordan has been used variously for just the West Bank, the West Bank and Gaza, or even all of the old Mandate of Palestine, it certainly is not the name in current English use for any of these. Caerwine 23:00, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Jayjg ^(talk) 15:27, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Rename There certainly are enough events happening in the region to make a Current events subarticle appropriate, but Cisjordan is too neologist to be the name used. Caerwine 23:00, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Nobody's updating the page, regardless of the name -- which is part of the reason for deletion. brozen 05:52, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. – NSR (talk) 06:12, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Paanchi

--A dicdef, fits the Deletion policy criterion. (and I personally am not a deletionist) D. J. Bracey (talk) 20:06, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep, wiktionary doesn't take "dicdefs" of people. Kappa 22:49, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. This man was a king. Of a real, if now historical, nation. [17] I can't see how that could fail any test for notability ever made. (And I am (sometimes) a deletionist.) Cleanup, sure, but really... --Icelight 23:52, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep I got this page confused with another; this doesn't need deletion; I got this confused with Foder article. Sorry.D. J. Bracey (talk) 00:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Addendum I cleaned it up; also wikified and created disambiguation. I am very sorry, this was a terrible mistake May I take the VfD tag off? If feel like a real idiot. D. J. Bracey (talk) 00:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Seems like it has potential. Trollderella 00:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Kings of current or historic nations are inherently notable in my view. Capitalistroadster 01:49, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Keep per nom. -- DS1953 04:48, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 13:07, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chris marks

Administrator of an online forum. Not notable. Could perhaps be renamed to Nano-reef.com and rewritten accordingly. Note we already have a nano reef page. -- Curps 20:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. No assertion of notability, could be speedied? Sdedeo 20:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete quickly as vanity. Hall Monitor 21:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Vanity, should have been CSD A7 --Outlander 21:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 13:01, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Foder

--Delete as per the former Joder article. A foreign "dic-def" D. J. Bracey (talk) 20:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Portuguese profanity is not notable. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:15, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 12:58, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Andrew T. Austin

vanity, non-notable, promotion Ben-w 20:23, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, per above. Sdedeo 20:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, distincly non notable. PubLife 21:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, non-notable vanity article--take it to the User pages.--Craigkbryant 21:19, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete vanity. Jaxl | talk 23:27, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Had this not been nominated for deletion I would have speedied it for not even claiming notability. David | Talk 23:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Secretlondon 04:27, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 12:54, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Perpetual boyfriend syndrome

Delete Un-encyclopedic PhilipO 20:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete - neologism. -- Cyrius|✎ 20:37, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: neologism, original research. --IByte 20:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - as above --Outlander 20:44, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete-as per nominator. D. J. Bracey (talk) 20:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: all of the above. --Craigkbryant 21:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Keep --Allen3 ^talk 12:51, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Qassim Afzal

this person has stood for public office a few times, but has been very unsuccessful, being a councillor for a year only. 81.97.114.168 20:32, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete not notable. David | Talk 22:15, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep factual. Trollderella 22:16, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as he is notable for a number of reasons. (I improved the article). Punkmorten 22:19, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep if he is the first British born asian councillor. Secretlondon 04:25, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • That is extremely unlikely. A friend of mine is a British-born Bangladeshi councillor and was first elected in 1998, the same as Qassim Afzal. David | Talk 08:24, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
    • Well, wouldn't that make it a matter of which result came in first, if they were elected in the same election? Clair de Lune 08:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
      • I looked into this further and he clearly isn't the first British-born Asian councillor. Mehboob Khan was a councillor in 1996. Clair de Lune 00:08, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Not a world statesman but still someone we ought to cover. Clair de Lune 08:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. — Trilobite (Talk) 14:15, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Weak keep - a good example of someone who I wouldn't have bothered researching and writing about, but now that someone has, he may as well stay. OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 14:50, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - can't list every ex-Councillor here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.23.25.107 (talk • contribs) 09:50, August 19, 2005.
• delete - not a notable person,agree we can not list every ex-Councillor—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.252.192.9 (talk • contribs) 16:29, August 19, 2005.
• Delete - He claims to be the first British-born Asian Councillor, but clearly he wasn't (as per Clair de Lune) - what else is he claiming which is factually untrue? - Colin Armstrong—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.252.192.8 (talk • contribs) 15:39, August 20, 2005.
• Delete this person is known in the Liberal Democrats as as self-publicist. Local politics is littered with people like him. Rhyddfrydol 01:21, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
  • User had 3 edits prior to this vote, the first being made five days after this VfD was opened. --Allen3 ^talk 12:51, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 12:36, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jerome Butterbrodt

Nn Bio, "Premier Rhinos" returns nothing in Google - maybe this should be speedy? PubLife 20:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per nominator. D. J. Bracey (talk) 20:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, nn. -- DS1953 21:47, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. the transwiki vote is more or less a joke vote. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:54, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] OS switcher

Wikipedia is not a dictionary Darrien 20:51, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Dicdef and neologism. ManoaChild 21:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• transwiki to my wiki if you please, thanks. Wikinerd 07:34, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:00, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. It has potential. TastemyHouse 05:13, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 12:33, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jason_Tomlins

Only claim to notability is being the brains behind Fooforums, which has no Alexa ranking. GraemeL 20:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete quickly as vanity. Hall Monitor 21:01, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete non-notable vanity article. Take it to the User pages.--Craigkbryant 21:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep I'm not famous or notable either but the article is factual and clean and someday someone might try to look me up using Wikipedia just as they might David Bowie. --68.146.219.84 04:14, 18 August 2005 (UTC) Jason Tomlins.
  • Someday when you become notable enough that anybody but your family members or potential girlfriends will want to Google you, then somebody else, not yourself, can write an article on you. Till then, delete. Zoe 05:20, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Vanity. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:16, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. nn, vanity. -- DS1953 15:23, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 12:31, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Qicscript

Delete. advertising. "leading" seems exaggerated, it's mostly constrained to Ireland. --IByte 20:53, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, ad, no verifiable notability mentioned. Pavel Vozenilek 22:39, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 12:29, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Problem-solution dynamic

Neologism - searches of Google and Yahoo turned up several instances of this term, but none with the definition referred to here. Most cite the concept that "any problem has an ultimate solution". Outlander 21:05, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nominator. Interesting point on the inverted definition; perhaps it's an intentional joke about marketdroid speech? --fuddlemark 21:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete neologism. Also, the stated law of evolution makes no sense. ManoaChild 21:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. - Mailer Diablo 16:52, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Maulana Ibne Hasan Nonaharvi

Doesn't assert sufficient notability KeithD (talk) 21:07, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Please read: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Deletion sorting/India User:Nichalp/sg 13:41, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

I agree that Google isn't always a good indicator of notability, but the article in its current form doesn't assert any notability, it just says he was a religious scholar. If you know more, then by all means improve the article. KeithD (talk) 15:30, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately I haven't heard of him, so I can't contribute and I'd prefer to abstain from voting. The main problem with this is that the article was written by an anon, and he has not revealed much about this person. But a google search on the term Sultan Madaris reveals that that it is a reputed seminary and they have produced many notable people. He could be one, but as you rightly said, anon hasn't mentioned anything out of the ordinary. He could have been as notable as Syed Kalbe Hussain, a cleric from the same city. User:Nichalp/sg 18:33, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

• Delete - Not a single Google hit, with quotes. :( Is that name spelled right? If it isn't, then I will consider changing my vote. I feel pretty silly for thinking it wasn't in english earlier... --Phroziac ([[User

talk:Phroziac|talk]]) 22:05, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Changed to Keep - "Maulana Ibne Hasan" gets some google hits, all in Urdu(?). I suspect he is notable, just not in the west. --Phroziac ^(talk) 18:44, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep, at least until someone can research it a bit more fully - there looks like there may be good reasons why someone famous for reciting urdu might not get many google hits. Trollderella 00:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete I tried a number of variations on the name, including correcting the spelling of ibn and cannot come up with a thing. Not many google hits, maybe. None? Unlikely. Author needs to post sources. Dottore So 01:37, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Strong Keep Sultanul Madaris confirms his prominence in a field that is under-represented in Wiki and Google. May have been the author of Chaudaa Baseerat Afroze Majaalis Dlyons493 15:42, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no concensus. - Mailer Diablo 16:51, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Spacemen

not notable, vanity - nomination by User:Ben-w

• Speedy Delete - created by same anon as The Slabs which is was speedied PubLife 22:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Is there something wrong with anons trying to fill in red links? Kappa 02:54, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. Not all redlinks are notable. Is that a "Keep" vote? --Alan Au 04:23, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
    • No, that wasn't a vote, it was more a "don't bite the newbies" thing. However, since Music of Kansas cites a source for his original band's notability (Blush, Steven. American Hardcore: A Tribal History. 2001. Feral House. ISBN 0-922915-717-7), I will in fact vote Keep. Kappa 04:49, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
      • Hey, I'm a practically a newbie myself and I'm not biting anyone - I left him a message on The Slabs discussion page with some links and put a welcome note on his IP User Page. Having said that, I'm not convinced any encylopedia needs an article on an 'urban rap electronic trance' outfit once started by a minor musician in the Kansas 80's Punk scene, but still happily remove the Speedy part of my original vote. PubLife 09:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. Prehaps actually READING the guidelines is a good thing... had I done that previous to putting in this entry, I would not have posted it. I don't think that the reference to The Slabs could be stated as a reference to an 'extremely notable' source, minor scene as you stated... so I would conceed the point. However as the page notes say not to remove it myself, I will let the process take its own course. Thousand pardons begged...lesterUbe

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The result of the debate was Keep --Allen3 ^talk 11:49, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nizlopi

For your perusal...yet another band vanity stub. - Lucky 6.9 21:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Comment Profiled by BBC, but as a local act [18] Does this make any difference though? PubLife 22:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, the BBC article says "They have already got an album in the shops, have won over huge festival crowds and are so in demand they’re almost constantly on tour, in the UK and in Europe". Kappa 23:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep looks ok. Trollderella 00:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete for now. No assertion of meeting WP:MUSIC. These guys may well be on their way, though. Friday (talk) 01:26, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. We have a verifiable source namely the BBC saying that this band is "almost constantly on tour" in the UK and Europe. They therefore meet the WP:Music guideline about having completed at least one national tour. Capitalistroadster 01:54, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. I got dyslexic Googling the name (blush). - Lucky 6.9 02:13, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per nom comment. --Alan Au 04:24, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - their "JCB Song" is becoming internet cult classic. Try it for yourself and then decide if you want these boys out of here. Budgiekiller 12:45, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Yeah, they're always on tour, often on BBC radio and their fanbase is becoming huge.

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 11:46, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Synth-hop

Delete. Neologism used to support the article Di$h and ShiQuana. 74 unique Google hits. See also Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Di$h and ShiQuana. android79 22:01, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Delete imaginary music genres —Wahoofive (talk) 03:27, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 11:43, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Aimee G

Unverifiable vanity - according to the bio she's a musician, (electronic, classical, clash and jaz), movie maker (director and screen writer), exhibiting photographer, visual artist, furniture maker, sculpture and professional comedian. Ho hum! --Doc (?) 22:07, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Google and the like all return very weak results for "Aimee G" and her other aliases. No evidence of notability within any of her multiple fields. Hall Monitor 22:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Doesn't this qualify for speed treatment under the new regime ? Dottore So 01:39, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

nope, she asserts any amount of notability - its just that it's non-verifiable --Doc (?) 07:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 11:42, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rancid toast

Delete: Fails almost all of WP:WEB. Doesn't show up on alexa.com rankings. Might pass proposal #2 under web comics on WP:WEB. But, without having enough traffic to score at all on alexa.com, I think it fails in general. --Durin 22:11, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Also isn't included as a needed comic under Wikipedia:WikiProject Webcomics, which is a viable alternate notability guide.--DNicholls 07:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Non-notable. Dragonfiend 12:49, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 11:38, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gost bich

It's a band. Discuss. :) - Lucky 6.9 22:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• google search produces, count 'em: 1, 2, 3 whole entries! Delete, non-notable according to, well, every measure in WP:MUSIC. -Satori 23:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Vanity. A Prolific band though - 10 albums since Dec 04! PubLife 23:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per all above. feydey 12:25, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Keep/Redirect to Circumcision. Redwolf24 (talk) 01:47, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Uncircumcised

Dicdef, no possibility of expansion. Should be redirect to circumcision Nohat 22:41, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per Nohat. --Randy 22:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete no redirect --Alan Au 22:46, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• The article refers to use of the term in the New Testament to "refer to unbelievers of either sex, regardless of physical circumcision." Could that be expanded enough to keep? Tree&Leaf
• keep Tree&Leaf 02:35, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep or redirect, no need to delete. Trollderella 00:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, circumcision does not cover the "unbelievers" meaning. Kappa 02:34, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, but as disambiguation page. Do not redirect. Redirecting to any one article will exclude other possible meanings. Sirkumsize 03:36, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to circumcision. Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Rhobite 03:41, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect per Rhobite. Vegaswikian 06:59, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to circumcision. Proto t c 11:46, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to User:Scott Gall :)  Grue  20:07, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect per Rhobite. Nandesuka 21:08, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I can't imagine how a simple disambiguation page could get VFD'd on any topic that wasn't so controversial. Is it that terrible to tell readers alternate uses of the word and ensure they reach their desired location? LizardWizard 04:30, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to circumcision, if possible move there valuable info too. --Anthony Ivanoff 10:33, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to circumcision. - Jakew 10:51, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. The religious meaning, which is evidently not the same as physical circumcision in that it can be applied to females or males, should be expanded. Jonathunder 14:54, 2005 August 19 (UTC)
• Keep.

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 11:36, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cookie Day

Unable to verify, Google returns no hits for creator names + "Cookie Day" [19], likely not sufficiently notable. --Alan Au 22:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• The page provides information. Keep it. --Walter Görlitz 23:02, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I'm afraid the event must be independently verifiable for inclusion here, which this isn't. (Unless you can provide an outside reference?) See What Wikipedia is not. Flowerparty ^talk 23:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Sorry, can't get "proof" so i suppose it can't be here. I will have to get it recognised somewhere so before i can get it on here? --Hafez 00:46, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Yeah. Good luck with that, though. Flowerparty ^talk 00:01, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete LOL. Dottore So 01:42, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete every article whose only proof is the existence of the article. Zoe 05:23, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• I'm also having a hard time finding evidence on it. I'd say Delete. Acetic Acid 02:39, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. There are probably some keep votes which should be discounted, but at any rate, there is only one delete vote. Sjakkalle (Check!) 08:53, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Commodore 64 (band)

• Delete. Band vanity. A search on Google reveals very few hits that are relevant (Search for "Commodore 64 " "hip hop" -ringtones -sid -Coleco -vic -computer +macintosh"). Nothing from this band since 1999. --PhilipO 22:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. If your keeping the other geeksta rappers, why not this one? A simple search on Amazon found their cd and details. Of course its going to be hard to search for a band named after the commodore 64. But cause of their early work in this genre and pioneered the term geeksta rap I say keep. Wayback machine on their website reveals more details too. --Anonymous Coward 08:38, 18 August 2005 (GMT) From 80.229.234.135

• Comment - I've expanded the page, added some more information and another link. --Natgoo 19:04, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. Selling 130,000 copies of an album in the first 3 months is a notable feat. Especially of Nerdcore which is usually downloaded for free. Been mentioned in Slashdot too. --195.157.84.178 15:11, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep A vote for Nerdcore is a vote for love - besides, if they are truly one-time pioneers of the genre I get down in, they deserve respect. It isn't like we get too much press coverage anyway, and at least they have in some form or another. (minor edit - if they can prove the 130,000 figure I shall change my vote to strong keep) --Ytcracker 22:12, 21 August 2005 (UTC) User's only 10th contribution to Wikipedia.

• Keep. Obscure band in obscure genre... but that's the sort of thing that makes Wikipedia so neat! *Dan* 22:37, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 11:33, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Resolving Who Owns Money

perilously close to speedy as patent nonsense Ben-w 22:51, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete WP:NOR. -Satori 22:56, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete essay, doesn't fit patent nonsense definition. Gazpacho 01:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Gazpacho, and bordering on Deep Thoughts. Haikupoet 02:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. OR. Not encyclopedic. Mmmbeer 00:59, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep.- Mailer Diablo 16:54, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Graduation (album)

Article for planned third album by Kanye West. Meanwhile, his second hasn't even been released yet, and it's stands to reason that not a single note has been recorded for this album, or the planned follow up Good Ass Job (see that VfD discussion below) Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. FuriousFreddy 22:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Without documentation from a reliable source they've started, not a crystal ball. Wikibofh 00:13, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep It has become his trademark lately: knowing the titles of his future albums. If the seventh Harry Potter book gets its own article, Graduations deserves its own as well. Acetic Acid 07:17, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
  • In all honesty, the seventh Harry Potter book shouldn't have its own article until about a few months before its release (they're up to only seven now? I don't follow them; thought there were more). --FuriousFreddy 11:09, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep I just posted links to recent news articles from MTV that support the information on the main page. Kanye West himself revealed the titles for his next two albums at a press listening session. He also told those in attendence a tentative release date of October 2006 for his next album. 8:32, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep There is a set release date for the album and the title is final, therefore this article should be kept as it does not break any Wikipedia rules. --Scottf9 13:14, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Only if there is some possible information necessary to report The Graduation as an official title. LILVOKA 13:33, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Eugene van der Pijll 16:54, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Good Ass Job

See discussion of Graduation (album) above FuriousFreddy 22:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Delete:Depending on your perspective, either better or worse than a Good boob job. WP:NOT a crystal ball. Wikibofh 00:12, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - unless a reliable source for all information is listed. gren グレン 20:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep I just posted links to recent news articles from MTV that support the information on the main page. Kanye West himself revealed the titles for his next two albums at a press listening session. He also told those in attendence a tentative release date of October 2006 for his next album. 8:32, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
• Delete To be fair, who gets this information? Is this Kanye West, an official Wiki. If you want to keep Good A** Job, then cop some information. LILVOKA 13:44, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep (and merge). Eugene van der Pijll 16:54, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Exploit (World of Warcraft)

Doesn't deserve an article of its own as everything here is covered by World of Warcraft or Exploit (online gaming) Kevin 22:56, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Merge With World of Warcraft. Havok (T/C) 22:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Merge per Havok. Nandesuka 23:41, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
• Fancruft. Delete or merge. Martg76 00:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 ^talk 11:31, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Molossia

Delete Someone's internet hoax page. Icelight 23:23, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Dottore So 01:46, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was redirect to question. – Alphax ^τεχ 05:51, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Questioning

Delete. At best, it's a dictionary entry. In reality, it is probably a hoax. This users edits don't help it's credibility. Wikibofh 23:51, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, Redirect to question (disambiguation) per Sean Curtin. Peter Grey 15:52, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
• Comment I believe it's mostly accurate, but limited. Maybe the title would be more useful as a dab page pointing to the relevant part of Homosexuality and to Interrogation. Ben-w 00:20, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to question; already covered at bi-curious and disambiguated at question (disambiguation). -Sean Curtin 05:28, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Merge any extra information, if there is any, into bi-curious, say that in the edit summaries, but then point the redirect at to Question, as per Sean Curtin. CanadianCaesar 05:31, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Keep --Allen3 ^talk 11:27, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Franz Tausend

I don't know what this is. But it's not an encyclopedia article. Ben-w 23:58, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. While there are only 176 Google hits on this alchemist from the 1920s and 1930s, they are from a wide variety of sources and there appears to be a fair degree of notability (keep in mind that his 15 minutes of fame ended way before the Internet was around). However, the article is very POV given that many of the sources claim that he was a con artist. The article needs work. -- DS1953 00:09, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep but cleanup. The article does contain some real information, though presented in a highly POV fashion. Also agree with DS1953's arguments. ManoaChild 00:15, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep I've started the cleanup process. It isn't that bad really - it won't take much for someone with a knowledge of the subject to turn it into a good article. Osomec 00:28, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• keep. Another example of something that may not get many google hits, but that doesn't mean it should be deleted. Trollderella 00:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per above. Interesting story. Dottore So 01:45, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Interesting article and he seems notable enough. Capitalistroadster 01:57, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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