Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of on-screen clichés

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS. Owen× ☎ 04:47, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of on-screen clichés

This article has bugged me for a long time. A lot of it's so called clichés only appear in one TV show, movie etc. and are very badly worded. Whilst cleanup seems like an easier way to approach it, I only see the list continuing to be unruly, so I recommend its deletion.Barneyboo 04:20, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Rewrite. Although this walks a fine line between POV and original research, I don't think this article is unsaveable. But it needs considerable work. (PS. especially if Zoe's allegation of possibly copyvio is correct) 23skidoo 04:33, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, this floats all over the place. There's a version of it in the imdb forums, which would make this a copyvio. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:51, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • weak keep - bordeline encyclopedic, unsourced, POV, but very very interesting and amusing. Renata3 06:45, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Needs cleaning, not deletion. "Unruliness" is not a deletion criteria. :) I also hesitate to delete pages with large edit histories, indicative of a lot of work by a lot of people. Turnstep 15:07, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
Comment - What I meant by it being unruly, though, is that even with cleanup, it's fundamental flaws will still be there, even if it is a tenth of the size. It's just a very subjective list which I can't envisage in a cleaned up form. Barneyboo 17:22, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
I absolutely agree. How many times must something be repeated, and by whom, to become a cliché? What is the essential verifiable difference between a cliché and a catchphrase? How does this advance our understanding of either? - Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 19:22, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete listcruft. What is a cliché? Who defines that? Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 17:37, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, useful list. — JIP | Talk 18:36, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Reads like a chain e-mail; not encyclopedic Bellhalla 03:51, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete: Many different ways it fails the list criteria. For one, it is inherently POV to call something a "cliche." For another, "on screen" means, to me, movies, but, for the article authors, television. Third, there is no way to be comprehensive here, and there is no "notable cliches" that can be appealed to (i.e. with other poorly conceived lists, people will say, "Well, obviously, it's not supposed to be a List of all American directors, just the notable ones," but that can't be said, here). By the criteria for lists, this one fails. Geogre 10:58, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
    • To me, "on screen" means both movies and television. The only difference is a technical detail in the viewing apparatus. Television shows have much in common with movies, much more than with, for example, theatre plays or books. Is there a really important distinction between movies and television or do you just harken back to the pre-TV days? — JIP | Talk 20:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep I agree with Turnstep that it should be kept and cleaned up because of the large amount of edits (547) by different users. Many list movies which they come from, and some are so obvious they dont need verification - "Car chases will usually involve...Passing through a narrow alleyway stacked high with empty cardboard boxes...The pursuer will crash through something being carried across the street, usually a pane of glass or a fruit cart" or how about "There is always a big red button that is not supposed to be pressed." - countless movies Astrokey44 13:48, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Theres so many that they would need their own article, maybe a few of the more obvious ones should be mentioned there with one of those 'See main article' links Astrokey44 14:22, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
For what value of need? As far as I can tell, WP is supposed to be an encyclopaedia, not an indiscriminate collection of information. What is the encyclopaedic purpose of keeping more than are required to illustrate the point? And come to that, isn't cliché a dicdef anyway? - Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 12:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep — The page could do with some examples for each of the clichés. — RJH 16:19, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Coffee 18:19, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. This is a drinking party game, not an encyclopedia article. -- Dalbury(Talk) 00:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. If you deleted every badly-written article, Wikipedia would be 50% gone. This is useful and needs to be cleaned up, not deleted. Battle Ape 09:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Comment - The issue is not how badly written the article is. The subject matter is simply not encyclopedic, no matter how eloquent. Barneyboo (Talk) 12:38, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment Roger Ebert has published a list of film cliches. I could be persuaded to keep this if other prominent writers have written similar lists and the article compiled them. Durova 19:59, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment. I'm sorry, I fail to see how famous people compiling such lists makes the lists encyclopedic. -- Dalbury(Talk) 21:12, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep with rewrite. A lot of people contributed to this, I'd hate to see it go. Perhaps rewrite and eliminate non-reoccuring "chiches."Gooberliberation 23:27, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. While there are some okay reasons for deletion, rubbing out something with a huge history would be disappointing. At the most, we could eliminate some of the less common items, and elaborate or provide examples of the very common ones. Just look at the video game cliche list. Sonicrazy 00:35, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
    • CommentFor the record, Sonicrazy is one of the contributers to the list. -- Dalbury(Talk) 01:16, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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