Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joseph Ryan

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 09:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Joseph Ryan

Joseph Ryan (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

A senior minister of some church who has apparently self-published a two books. This does not appear particularly notable. Judged by the tone of the article, it is written by people of his church in conflict of interest. >Radiant< 10:53, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Valrith 20:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep and rename Delete. Skip Ryan. Although there's no article for him yet, a far more notable Joseph Ryan was the president of the International Longshoremen's Association. As for this guy, it seems to me that a minister of a 5,000 member church would easily be notable. WP:COI isn't reason to delete, but should instead be a flag that extra attention to NPOV is necessary (as with inumerable wikipedia articles). It's a stub that needs a lot of work, that's all. Bobanny 20:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
  • His name isn't "Skip". His name is "Joseph". >Radiant< 08:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know the guy. The convention on Wikipedia is to use the name the subject is most widely known as for the title (e.g., "Sting" instead of "Gordon Sumner"), whether or not it's their legal or birth name. If he's only called "Skip" in certain situations or by certain people, then no, that wouldn't be the one to go with. Maybe Joseph F. Ryan or Joseph Ryan (Minister). It's not big deal currently because this is the only Joseph Ryan article. However, if you hit the "what links here" button, you'll find there's a Joseph Ryan in the 1934 longshore strike, one in the 1904 Olympics, another who's an Irish-American mobster, and a Winnipeg Blue Bomber. Bobanny 15:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

• Looks like we need a DAB page. However, the fact that we need an article on some of those Joseph Ryans doesn't imply that we need an article on this particular one. >Radiant< 08:33, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

You're right, it's a little off topic. But since no one who has an interest in the article is around, what else do we have to talk about? Seriously though, I did a little work on it, and I'm considering changing my vote. His notability seems more dubious than it did at first glance. Bobanny 10:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

He has a couple of published books and multiple newspaper articles so I don't think it has a notability problem, but still it needs some work I would think. Billymumphry 21:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I changed my vote to delete. Looking a little closer, the subject doesn't resonate outside a very localized church circle. He has 2 books, that technically aren't self-published, but if you google the titles, all they produce are websites trying to sell them. No reviews or indication that they provoked any interest beyond his own small flock, of which he is no longer the shepherd. He was the minister of a church with money, and that's why he was published. Newspaper articles? He wrote an editorial years ago in a Dallas paper. The same paper announced his retirement. Not much else. His controversial stepping down has been pretty much kept under wraps except for an announcement on the church website admitting that he's a drug addicted deviant, just another wayward sheep needing restoration by the church (which no doubt consists of purchasing non-notable books from Crossway publishing). No one outside the congregation seem to care or have noticed, or else are too nervous about incurring the wrath of the church by saying anything publicly (at least that's the impression given on the talk page). Besides that, he met with Bono, as have a kazillion other people. Looking at the article's history, Bono's "people" stepped in disallowing a photo of the rev and superstar from appearing on Wikipedia, which doesn't bode well in establishing notability. Bobanny 17:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Douglasbjordan 20:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.